Show purchase 1921

[Deleted User]

First I want to ask if anyone has a slabbed gem 1921 they could post.
I wasn't going to post this coin. I feel like I've done enough posting and need to cool it.
So I will share this then back off.
I found this at a coin show in person. Shows are the way to go if you can get to them.
This came from a bullion dealer. It wasn't even a coin dealer per se but he had coins. I just stopped to look at the silver bars. I'm going to buy one of those Englehard 100 OZ bars some day.
He asked what I was looking for and I told him Morgan's. He pulled out a box and said I have 1. Coincidently 1921 is my favorite series because they are tough to find in high grade with a nice strike. Usually come kind of crappy and a little bruised up even in high grade.plus the VAMs are fun.
He put this out and said $80. I couldn't pay him fast enough.
A couple of minor hits and frost breaks. Those arent nicks on the upper cheek it more of a rub. Outside of that it's a great coin. All the devices have that caked on finish which I never see on 21's. It made my day and made up for some of the lousy stuff I've been through while I learn. This coin will definetly be graded.

RLSnapper

From APMEX...$96 delivered to your door. Stick to the graded coins. You already have $80 into it..to get it graded with postage and insurance you are well over $100..not to mention the 3 or 4 months you have to wait.

Or maybe this one... $97 delivered to your door

[Deleted User]

I'm okay with waiting. I am confident it will grade high. This one I selected by hand. I have several graded 1921 coins. I also have a fair amount of slabbed coins that I have purchased.
I want the challenge of buying a raw coin in person and having it grade better than a 64.
I think it's easy to write a check and buy a coin. I think there is nothing wrong with doing that either.
But with this lower priced coins it adds some fun and challenge to it.
I appreciate your advice very much.
Nice looking 64's you have there. You should send then to CAC while you can.
I like to look at APMEX they do have good deals.

[Deleted User]

I'm trying to get sharper images but this camera will not cooperate today.

coinbuf

I agree with @RLSnapper , you would be better off not sending this for grading. It does not look any better than 64, and honestly from your photos it looks like a details grade is possible. Enjoy the coin, save the fees.

braddick

[Deleted User]

Sounds like a worthy challenge. I'll have it graded and if it comes back details I will give it away.
If it comes back 65 I will be happy.
If it comes back 64 no harm no foul.
That sounds like a fair enough plan.

ProofCollection

@Watchtower said:
Well I don't agree with that on this one.
It's okay to disagree. I understand how difficult it is to grade from images.
I would wager that it will grade higher than 64 and will PQ.
$500.00

I certainly wish the best for you on this one, but if not details, 64 or 64+ is probably the best you can hope for based on the pictures. I don't see 65 happening and I don't think the dealer who sold it to you thought it was 65-worthy either. Dealers go broke if they under price coins like this, although they are human and make mistakes.

[Deleted User]

I understand. I appreciate you guys taking a look. I also know how hard it is to grade coins from my lousy images. It doesn't hurt my feelings either way. I didn't think it was a rip or anything. Believe it or not so many of the Morgan's I see raw at the shows aren't worth buying for $80.
I liked this coin in hand and still do. I've paired it up with my slabbed 64's. It's okay there. I've paired it up with my 65's and it depends which one I am looking at. It's got nice cartwheel though.
I'll tell you this much, I am not going to get into a pissing contest over an $80 coin.

ChrisH821

I have a 65 around here that I can image and post.
I'd say yours looks like a strong 64 with above average eye appeal.

[Deleted User]

I agree Chris and thank you for your post.

@ProofCollection said:

@Watchtower said:
Well I don't agree with that on this one.
It's okay to disagree. I understand how difficult it is to grade from images.
I would wager that it will grade higher than 64 and will PQ.
$500.00

I certainly wish the best for you on this one, but if not details, 64 or 64+ is probably the best you can hope for based on the pictures. I don't see 65 happening and I don't think the dealer who sold it to you thought it was 65-worthy either. Dealers go broke if they under price coins like this, although they are human and make mistakes.

I deleted that because I thought it was stupid on my end. Looks like you picked it up before and quoted it.
My bad. That's what's nice about the edit button. Sometimes I write something and say "nah that's not cool" and delete it. That was supposed to be one of those.
I don't do things like that but I guess others like to.

JJM

That one might be whizzed or doctored, that was my first impression
But what do i know 🤷

Eric_Babula

@Watchtower said:
Sounds like a worthy challenge. I'll have it graded and if it comes back details I will give it away.
If it comes back 65 I will be happy.
If it comes back 64 no harm no foul.
That sounds like a fair enough plan.

Thank you so much for offering it to me, if it comes back details! You're the best!

I once had an online "debate" similar to this over an 1891-S Morgan that I had and wanted to crack out of its ANACS holder and submit (back in 2005). I put "debate" in quotes because it got pretty heated - some people lambasted me and more or less called me an idiot for doubting their superior knowledge and grading skills. I swore the 1891-S was an MS-64 all day but others told me it was anything but - maybe, maybe MS-63 at best.

The benefit you have is that you have the actual coin in hand, and can see it in all its glory and imperfections. I can't really tell from the pics, but feel that you "may" have a 65 on your hands. I see some chatter on the cheek and below the neck (slight rub marks), but nothing major. The fields seem to generally be pretty nice. I can't tell from the pics, but I would like to see a bit more definition in the eagle's breast for a 65. Maybe it's there. I feel this is a 64 or 65, but am going to lean 65 based on feeling. The pics make it hard to decide for sure.

I'm interested in seeing what this will come back as. Fingers crossed for a 65 or 66 for you!

dcarr

It appears to be a decent coin, no obvious problems, and likely in the MS64 range.
The obverse appears not far from MS65, although the reverse looks closer to MS63.

If it were my coin, i would probably not send it in for grading and just put it in a non-PVC flip and store it with a few other similar silver dollars I have.

gumby1234

I think its a 64

Shane6596

I like your coin energy!

I could use some in my morning coffee.

Watchtower energy boost

may

@braddick said:

![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/ha/3bqyov86kvjg.jpg "" Challenge accepted!

[Deleted User]

Another long read. If you don't like to read this post is not for you.
I like 1921 Morgan's. They were massed produced for no good reason at all. They were mostly stockpiled away and melted. The were made from new dies that were of much lowere quality.
Have you ever really looked at a 1921 Morgan dollar?
The laurel wreath and clusters are usually dull to the point that they look like an AU 50 or lower. Granted Philadelphia is usually a little better.
It's not often that I see a frosty 1921 Morgan. Most of them have that cold steel look to them. See the way the frost flows through the devices of my coin?
I like that. To me this coin is nice. If we were standing elbow to elbow you'd probably like it too. I like what was posted above about having a coin in hand that means something. I think what people post says something about them and who they are. I try to be honest about things today. That's were I'm at in life. I honestly like this coin. I don't care if I can buy one from a dealer for $100 already slabbed. It won't look like this one. It's not always about numbers or values. Ask the guys who collect moderns or Roosevelt dimes. It's about what you like.Maybe it's a 63 but I did start this thread to say I bought an MS 64 or 65 or 66. I try to post mature and intelligent meaningful content and if a lesson comes out of even better.
This is a genuine U.S. minted coin with some really nice attributes.
I took a look at some 65's.
This is a 1921 graded 65 and I don't see anything wrong with it.

winesteven

You asked to see a nice slabbed 1921 Morgan. Here’s mine, part of my Morgan DATE set. I still need 11 out of the 28. I’ve seen plenty of those 11 in the grades I want, but so far none have the eye appeal for me.

Yes, you are correct, it’s easy to just write a check for a slabbed coin. And when YOU succeed in buying a raw coin, and then the TPG agrees with your grade (or grades it even a bit higher), YOU get two benefits - you made out well financially, and you got a nice thrill. For me, buying slabbed coins, I miss out on the financial benefit. However, as I search for coins I need in the grades I want, when I finally come across that coin with the eye appeal I want for that grade, believe me, I get that same thrill as you when you succeed. That’s what “The Hunt” is all about!

Steve

Eric_Babula

@Watchtower said:
Another long read. If you don't like to read this post is not for you.
I like 1921 Morgan's. They were massed produced for no good reason at all. They were mostly stockpiled away and melted. The were made from new dies that were of much lowere quality.
Have you ever really looked at a 1921 Morgan dollar?
The laurel wreath and clusters are usually dull to the point that they look like an AU 50 or lower. Granted Philadelphia is usually a little better.
It's not often that I see a frosty 1921 Morgan. Most of them have that cold steel look to them. See the way the frost flows through the devices of my coin?
I like that. To me this coin is nice. If we were standing elbow to elbow you'd probably like it too. I like what was posted above about having a coin in hand that means something. I think what people post says something about them and who they are. I try to be honest about things today. That's were I'm at in life. I honestly like this coin. I don't care if I can buy one from a dealer for $100 already slabbed. It won't look like this one. It's not always about numbers or values. Ask the guys who collect moderns or Roosevelt dimes. It's about what you like.Maybe it's a 63 but I did start this thread to say I bought an MS 64 or 65 or 66. I try to post mature and intelligent meaningful content and if a lesson comes out of even better.
This is a genuine U.S. minted coin with some really nice attributes.

I'm with you! You collect what you want, how you want! And, no one can tell you that's the right or wrong way to do it! Personally, I'm with you with finding raw coins that are beautiful. Then, you can choose to have them slabbed, or not. It is thrilling, though, to find a good coin, and send it in to get the grade you believe it deserves! I have some slabs, but most of my stuff is raw, and lower value (cuz I could never afford the really good stuff!), but I prefer not having them in slabs. I'm sure there are those, here, who despise those words. But, I'll do me. You do you!

Now, I'm going to have to go to the vault and see if I have any 1921 Morgans to image and post! Likely, if I do have any, they're not nice enough to post.

[Deleted User]

@winesteven that is one beautiful 1921 Morgan dollar and out of the very high population only 24 better. You just hit on a very large point for me. If that were an 1881S there would be nearly 3500 better using the PCGS pop report. With 40 million minted seeing a 66+ on a 1921 is a true trophy. It would be a happy day for me to have one slabbed in that grade.
1921 is a very challenging year.
I believe I have written this before but I will write about it again. 1921 was minted using new dies because all of the other dies have been destroyed.
I am still learning and a friend wrote me a PM to explain a couple of things to me so I can tweak what I have learned so that I get it right for my own knowledge. Very resourceful information. I learned a lot from this thread.
Thank you

[Deleted User]

@JJM said:
That one might be whizzed or doctored, that was my first impression
But what do i know 🤷

@JJM
Can you please tell me why you believe it has been whizzed. I am not challenging you at all. You have over 7000 posts so I know you know your coins.
I want to see what your seeing so I know what to look for.
This is important to me. I've been fooled by whizzed coins before.
I'd like to think I won't let that happen again especially when I can see the coin in hand. Getting one through the mail from ebay or elsewhere will always be a possibility but I can return it.

jerseyben

Impossible to tell from the pictures but I am seeing a whizzed or cleaned coin. Solid 63, with a good chance at 64 details. IMO, not worth having it graded.

ricko

@Watchtower... Interesting coin.... I can see that you really like it, and having it in hand beats all the pictures for sure. Since you are going to submit it, please be sure to let us know the results. It will likely take a month or two, but make a post with a title referring to 'MY SPECIAL 1921 MORGAN' or something like that so we are sure to see it. Best of luck - and remember, have fun with coins. Cheers, RickO

ChrisH821

Nearly forgot. Here is my PCGS MS65 example.

ProofCollection

Wow! Love it.

[Deleted User]

@Watchtower said:
Another long read. If you don't like to read this post is not for you.
I like 1921 Morgan's. They were massed produced for no good reason at all. They were mostly stockpiled away and melted. The were made from new dies that were of much lowere quality.
Have you ever really looked at a 1921 Morgan dollar?
The laurel wreath and clusters are usually dull to the point that they look like an AU 50 or lower. Granted Philadelphia is usually a little better.
It's not often that I see a frosty 1921 Morgan. Most of them have that cold steel look to them. See the way the frost flows through the devices of my coin?
I like that. To me this coin is nice. If we were standing elbow to elbow you'd probably like it too. I like what was posted above about having a coin in hand that means something. I think what people post says something about them and who they are. I try to be honest about things today. That's were I'm at in life. I honestly like this coin. I don't care if I can buy one from a dealer for $100 already slabbed. It won't look like this one. It's not always about numbers or values. Ask the guys who collect moderns or Roosevelt dimes. It's about what you like.Maybe it's a 63 but I did start this thread to say I bought an MS 64 or 65 or 66. I try to post mature and intelligent meaningful content and if a lesson comes out of even better.
This is a genuine U.S. minted coin with some really nice attributes.
I took a look at some 65's.
This is a 1921 graded 65 and I don't see anything wrong with it.

I remember when they were dirt cheap. They were the Rodney Dangerfield of the Morgan series, they never got any respect. Used to be able to pick up really nice raw gems for just a little above melt, if you knew what you were looking at, and there weren't a lot of slabbed 21s because they weren't worth slabbing.