A Lesson in Buy The Coin, Not the Slab
FlyingAl
Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
I think that this is always a good topic for everyone.
At the end of the day, we collect plastic, not coins. Wait a second! That's not right! 
It's the coins that truly matter.
For my story, I will show a 1939 Proof dime. It's a wonderful example of what I'll call luck. For now, I'll ask this: have you ever seen a cameo Mercury dime? After watching this video, I think you could probably say yes.
Here it is:
https://youtu.be/nzahmlJ6mjE
Photos: 
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Now, before you all start thinking - yeah, PCGS got it right. That reverse isn't enough to be a cameo. I'll provide images here of MANY graded CAM examples from the same die pair that show the same lacking reverse. Remember, these are all cameos. Feel free to log on to HA or Stacks or Legend and select a 1939 dime in cameo. 50/50 it's got the reverse with some starburst (the lines you see that make the mirrors look duller).
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Now, you're probably thinking two things - first DEATH BY PICTURES! Second, so what - there's a whole bunch of coins lit by entirely different setups over several years. There's no way to compare contrast with the different photography setups and lighting scenarios. To that - you're absolutely right.
However, that's why I chose so many photos. There are a few that stick out to me as very good examples of what I'm stating about the reverse being more weakly contrasted (and they seem to be taken in similar conditions) - the two NGC Great Collections coins, the PCGS PR64CAM coin and the PCGS PR67CAM CAC coin.
So in those four coins, we see everything we as collectors value (or perhaps put a premium on) grading company, sticker, service. But at the end of the day does it matter? What if you could find the same coin - but perhaps without all of the bells and whistles?
I love when collectors find joy in having their collection being PCGS/CAC. For some it's just their way of making sure their coins are of quality. For others, it's a safeguard. For most, it's both.
However, I never got the luxury of being able to pay a premium price for a sticker or slab. I had to learn the good old hard way - screw up, and do it bad. Back then and today, I still can't really afford to pay up for a cameo graded example. If I wanted one, I had better pray one existed in a holder without the designation, and then find it. Boy, was I lucky this coin exists. It's one of perhaps 80 in existence, and 60 or so known.
It taught me two things - one, never give up on the search. Two, trust yourself. Sometimes you won't have the luxury of being able to wait for a coin with a sticker or the slab you want (I know I never did). I had to take chances on coins to get close, but know when I hadn't gotten close enough. Those coins are where I learned.
Just some thoughts that run through my head every now and then. I got a chance at this coin because I had made mistakes, and knew what to look for. No amount of plastic can change the value of those two items, and I think we all ought to remember that. However, plastic might be able to minimize the former.
The other reason I made this post - I also love to share coins with you guys, and love when you share yours. There's no better forum on earth for this, and it brings great joy to me to share what I have with you. I do hope it's not a bother.
Please, post any coin that relates to the title - both the coins you bought for the plastic and the ones you didn't.
Coin Photographer.
Comments
Are you going to send it in for a regrade?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Crack it out and go for it, if you're convinced.
Nice coin but base of the neck on obverse as well as chunks of UNITED STATES makes me think not CAM.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Congratulations! Looks like an excellent cherry pick. Bet it's a thrill to find.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Comparing photographs taken with vastly different photography styles and lighting is not useful especially when assessing cameo contrasts. On the flip, some people can make almost any coin look DCAM or CAM (R and I comes to mind).
Based on the video, your coin is very frosty on the obverse. I think the weaker contrast on the reverse precludes a cameo designation. It is still extremely eye appealing, and a great cherry pick.
Tough to tell from images but if you think it’s CAM with a 15 fold price difference crack it out and submit to the big two multiple times.
I'd be happy to pay non-CAM money for that one!
Sometimes I wonder if the graders get to caught up in the routine of assigning grade numbers that on some coins they "forget" to evaluate for attributes like CAM. I've found plenty of examples of CAM coins that IMO were not deserving of it. This is not one of them.
http://ProofCollection.Net
For comparison:
Yours:
An official CAM:
And another:
http://ProofCollection.Net
The coin looks deserving of the Cameo designation to me. It’s a beauty.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It's got a shot. Break out the hammer.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@FlyingAl ... That is a really beautiful dime.... Probably worth a try for CAM.... Will you crack it first?? Thanks for the pictures/information... Good study material. Cheers, RickO
To me it looks just as good as the ones I've seen with CAM designation. However there are always "sliders" and they can be very close. Where you, or PCGS, or NGC draws the line is based on personal experience, and won't always stay constant over time.
Definitely a PQ example and close to CAM. Worth a shot.
Gorgeous dime @FlyingAl.
From viewing your video the coin appears to have a Cameo appearance.
However, as you know grading proof coins that have a Cameo appearance is a gamble. Our host has been and is very reluctant to award the designation.
None of these coins I submitted in 2021 and 2022 received a Cameo designation (even though the have a Cameo appearance and I think that they all warranted the designation).
Those are all more Cameo than this one:
http://ProofCollection.Net
Your video was recommended to me by youtube yesterday, and I was surprised it wasn't in a cameo holder.
Young Numismatist
Update - this coin was sent to CAC as part of an 8 coin sub where it green beaned.
I asked JA to note if the coin was a cameo in his opinion, and I still have yet to hear the results (I submitted through a friend, so we're still waiting for the coins to return).
Coin Photographer.
I am curious how "requests" like that get handled by PCGS, or even how to submit them. I get that CAC is a different operation where you might be able to make a special request or ask a question as it is a smaller/simpler operation (for now anyway). The reason I ask is that I have two 2019-D Nickels, one graded MS67FS and one graded MS67FS PL. Finish-wise, you can't tell the two apart. So how did one get the PL designation and the other didn't? And not that I'm going to (it's not worth it), but if I submit for regrade how would I ensure that they evaluate whether it's PL or not?
Maybe it's just me, but I feel sometimes when I submit coins that the graders don't always consider coins for a '+' or PL designation, particularly on business strike (non-Morgan) coins.
I just submitted this half dollar for regrade, hoping for a PL designation. If it comes back without PL, I would love to have the reassurance that they considered it it wasn't good enough rather than wonder if they even thought about it. Not taht you can tell by pictures but you kind of can.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I agree it appears CAMEO.
Question: If CAC agrees it is a CAMEO, would that qualify for the gold sticker even if they also agree the grade of PR66 is accurate?
peacockcoins
From what I understand, no. It's still a green bean unless the grade number is at least 1 1/2 points low.
The idea is that if JA calls it a CAM, then it would go to CACG when that is a possibility. I found that idea better than sending it to PCGS or NGC, as even if JA doesn't call it a CAM then it will have a sticker. It's simply the best way to get the most information for my money IMO.
Of course, this is all assuming JA actually did render an opinion on if the coin is a CAM, which may not have happened.
Coin Photographer.
@SanctionII I cannot believe all of those coins were denied a cameo designation. Before I read your post I honestly thought you were using them as an example of what a cameo is and why.
@FlyingAl I know my opinion is of little to no value to you but I have spent plenty of my time trying to train my eye. I will say that your coin is just as much a cameo as the others posted.
I really do hope this works out. It would be an absolute shame to see that coin in a non-cameo slab with just a sticker, which it easily deserves.
BTW very nice write up by everyone.
My first reaction is the obverse is holding it back, not the reverse.