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Ohtani Cy Young, and MVP?

craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

This is the WAY too early awards thread. By my count, only 10 pitchers have ever won both the Cy Young and MVP awards in the same season. Could this be Ohtani's year? He has been an absolute monster on the mound so far.

What he brings to the table is really unprecedented. Ruth did it, but Ohtani is doing it better so far.

George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

Comments

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very possible. Last done in 2014.

    More impressive would be if he won both, and the majority opinion was that he would have been the MVP even if he hadn't pitched.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2023 4:57PM

    Pitchers shouldnt be allowed to win the MVP thats why the CY is there. In his case though since he does both and is doing things we havent seen since Babe Ruth he should be eligible. He should have won the MVP last year given he was an ace and an elite hitter. He would have cost about 70-80 million to get the pitcher and hitter that combined for what he did, not really sure what would be more valuable than that

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2023 5:15AM

    there is nothing in the MLB rules stating that pitchers are not eligible for the MVP award. in fact, it expressly states that both DH and pitchers ARE eligible. I can make an argument that starting pitcher used to be as if not more valuable than position players. this is back when starters went more than 5 innings a game.

    When Clemens won the MVP in 86, he faced 1000 hitters. The runner-up had 742 plate appearances. The starter definitely impacted more PA than the hitter in this case even though he played significantly fewer games.

    in the playoffs, a workhorse starter is invaluable.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    there is nothing in the MLB rules stating that pitchers are not eligible for the MVP award. in fact, it expressly states that both DH and pitchers ARE eligible. I can make an argument that starting pitcher used to be as if not more valuable than position players. this is back when starters went more than 5 innings a game.

    When Clemens won the MVP in 86, he faced 1000 hitters. The runner-up had 742 plate appearances. The starter definitely impacted more PA than the hitter in this case even though he played significantly fewer games.

    in the playoffs, a workhorse starter is invaluable.

    They are eligible but they shouldnt be. Theres a 162 games in a season which is 1458 innings if we assume theyre all a normal game. 2022 had Alcantara lead the league with 228.2 innings. Verlander won the MVP with 251 innings in 2011. They could throw a perfect game every start and only impact about 15% of games.

    Clemens in 86 pitched 251 innings, he wasnt even on the field for the majority of games not to mention guys playing every day are what pitchers depend on for outs. Great year for Clemens and thats why the CY is there, but You cant be the most valuable if you have an impact on such a small number of games/percentage of the season. Othani is obviously the exception and no one is currently more valuable than he is

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can definitely appreciate the argument about pitchers possibly only getting the CY, and position players the MVP. I can also appreciate the opposite.

    Top end pitchers are certainly paid like everyday players. So seemingly they are valued similarly.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:
    I can definitely appreciate the argument about pitchers possibly only getting the CY, and position players the MVP. I can also appreciate the opposite.

    Top end pitchers are certainly paid like everyday players. So seemingly they are valued similarly.

    Players should get as much money as they possibly can at any position and you need all positions obviously. I wouldnt put all my money in pitching with the injury rate but the Dbacks and Nats have shown it can work there is a big risk though.

    Othani not winning the MVP and some of the past votes like a closer winning it really has diminished the award a bit anyways. The need to rename it to something else because it just hasnt been what it was supposed to be

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    What team is going to pony up the kind of bucks to sign him this coming winter?

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    What team is going to pony up the kind of bucks to sign him this coming winter?

    Mets

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  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    What team is going to pony up the kind of bucks to sign him this coming winter?

    Mets

    8 for 560.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think there is a good possibility he could be the first half billion dollar player

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2023 7:42AM

    @craig44 said:
    I think there is a good possibility he could be the first half billion dollar player

    I said 8 for 560 above. It could be 9 for 540. Etc. Something like that. They will add up hitter plus catcher pitcher, then subtract, etc.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    With that kind of money I hope he chooses the place to play that he wants to be at instead of going some place he will not be happy with and not perform up to his ability.
    Bigger money should not be a consideration for him to go to team he does not want to play for.

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, he has said he "really likes Boston"...maybe a blockbuster deal with Chaim Bloom included. B)

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    dont get me all excited now about Ohtani. i would love to have him

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    With that kind of money I hope he chooses the place to play that he wants to be at instead of going some place he will not be happy with and not perform up to his ability.
    Bigger money should not be a consideration for him to go to team he does not want to play for.

    Hes making 30-40 million a year in endorsements alone and the Angels werent his best offer the first time around. Theres a good chance and is believed he wants to stay west to be a little closer to Japan. Hes one of the few where the biggest contract isnt necessarily going to land him. Boston and the Yankees were in on him the first time, so was LA and SD yet he chose the Angels. He eliminated east coast teams pretty quickly from his potential list last time and considered the Cubs because of Darvish.

    I wouldnt be getting my hopes up if I was a north east team but only Othani knows what he will be thinking in the offseason

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,439 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    What team is going to pony up the kind of bucks to sign him this coming winter?

    Mets

    That would ne nice and Cohen doesn't mind backing up the truck.



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