I think CAC is tightening up
Clackamas1
Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just set in a submission last week. I did horrible 10/1 for a green. I had 2 recently graded quarters that were 66+ and only 1 got a green sticker. I thought a + grade was an auto.
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That is far too small a sample size on which to base any conclusions about CAC’s overall standards.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
A plus grade is not an automatic bean, never has been.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Based on what I submit to them, they started tightening up three years ago.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I didn't think they could get any tighter?
From what I have learned and I mean that sincerely.
A CAC stickered coin is and A coin at the top of its grade.
With that being said I would really like to see the coins you sent it.
Not to knock them or anything like that.
It would be interesting to see what CAC would consider a B or C coin to look like.
I want to emphasize that I am not trying to be difficult or put your coins down but since you brought up this subject why not make a lesson out of it?
At least post a few that you thought should definitely get stickers.
We're any of them Morgan's or WLH's?
Not all of these went in but all the Washingtons did. The 1955 in 66+ is the one that did sticker.
https://www.pcgs.com/myaccount/order-details/23030449
Of course they could get tighter. If I remember correctly, they have reported a sticker/success rate in excess of 40% of the coins submitted.
And they aim to sticker A coins and B coins, so your understanding of their model is incorrect.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
CAC stickers are applied to both A and B coins.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
You need to use the shared order link, not the "my account" link.
https://www.pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/23030449
Collector, occasional seller
Do not complain about your coin. MS66+ for this one?? Be happy to have a newbies in grading and you has this. You has the worst 1955 Die strike I see ever.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
Was recently 9/12 and a friend was just 6/16 on much higher value items.
They seem about the same to me but?…..
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
I tried a "56 P65 type B. Not Passed.
It was choice IMO.
I could be wrong (CRS-can't remember ****). But thought I read in another post that CAC doesn't particularly care for "toners"?
CAC has no bias against toners, but PCGS has one against bad language:
“ Posts must not contain inappropriate language in the form of cuss words, name-calling, sexual suggestion etc.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Am i reading this right? It sounds like you are calling our hosts graders amateurs and clackamas1 coin garbage?
Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23
Well with that being the case if you don't get a sticker it sounds like the coin that has been deemed a certain grade has just snuck across to the higher grade from the lower grade.
So if you get a green sticker your coin could be either A quality or B quality but ultimately if people pay a small or sometimes large premium for the sticker it's best to know how to grade well regardless.
That's not to knock the process but it does mean that a mid level for the grade coin is awarded just the same as a coin that is at its peak for the grade.
Do have have this right?
I am not trying to cast a negative light on this process I just want to be sure I have it right.
I believe I do.
I do not call " clackamas1 coin garbage " but sure not a 66+. Only this. Maybe I will take one of the first strike from my future book collection to see a really 1955 coin. The book will be publish in June.
About the graders in the last time I am disappointed. I will not go more on this subject, but the generations change has the own fingerprint. Just think: they has 20 seconds to grad. You has to be good to do.
About CAC. What give them the authority to discuss other graders? Market business?? Yes. You buy the coin not the slab or a grad timing opinion. How the CAC determine the Grad Standard for ANACS, ICG, NGC and PCGS? Four recognized graders with theirs own standards. Who is CAC???? A sticker with marketing force? Yes, then more??? NO. I send' it to them ANACs graded with VSS certification of the variety and them response " Out of the normal standards" What a great company to analize other grading company.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
Well only in terms of price guide. In auction the nicer "A" CAC coins normally would go for more money than the "B" CAC coins. The coin still does matter and it shows in auction results as well as dealer pricing!
Maybe some of the propaganda you see on dealer websites or coin forums suggests this, but CAC also stickers average/mediocre "B" coins that are okay but nothing special for the grade too.
Do you need an editor?
Huh, I have never seen an 'average/mediocre' coin with a CAC sticker on its holder. All I have seen is 'strong for the grade' stickered coins..................
I've seen a few head scratchers.
And CAC since they stickered it as well.
Think widget gem/near gem uber common type (e.g. Morgan and Peace Dollars).
CAC has definitely tightened up on one specific set I'm working on.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
The following is specifically for @Watchtower, but it applies to everyone.
I've written similar statements to what I am about to write on multiple occasions within the forum, but will repeat again my thoughts on the issue. CAC is a tool that is available to all and, as such, it is quite similar to knowing how to use a loupe; having the knowledge to spot counterfeit pieces; understanding what manipulated and original coinage should look like or how they will likely appear; being able to interpret printed guide prices and auction results; understanding how to grade according to the ANA standards and how this grading differs from the various TPG grading standards; and learning all the options for buying and selling within the market.
Sadly, the vast majority of collectors ignore their study of coinage and thus are not truly numismatists. However, some folks pursue this knowledge and will happily listen to other opinions, regardless of whether or not they agree with those opinions. CAC can help all, but will help those who are willing to accept their help the most.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
So CAC is still BEANIN' coins but not grading them yet?
TC71
I agree with you from this point of view of the begin of the company. A second opinion better then only one.
Now, to say and begin with it is x o y grade, is other game. what was the move for theirs internal politic with A, B and C. they drive the business.
On counterfeits, I will show here a coin come from them genuine, Was a 1909 Cent VDB. Please tell me if was a fake or not??
I was call for this coin at 2 AM by Reserve to give answer as soon is possible, the a week after have the coin in slab in my hand and also the alloy was wrong. This it is your company you defend?
Sorry for the photo in cause, analyze early in the morning with bad pics.
PS: the auctioneer call for certification because was an apparently 67 1909-S
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
Remember
Don't feed the trolls
If MFeld says it the it is true. I am not being sarcastic. He is one of the forums most experienced numismatics. He is straight and to the point. You may not get a lot of love but you will get facts, truth and an education.
I honestly didn't know that CAC did A&B levels. I would have thought it would make more sense to have say a green for A and a blue for B just for example. Now I am not stirring the pot although it probably will but wouldn't that make more sense?
Heck you could even have done 3 different colors stickers for ABC.
Ah what do I know.
Perhaps English is a second language for him.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
CAC green is not always about "eye appeal " and I have seen coins that should not have been in a pcgs holder much less with the cac.
There was a very toned peace dollar with a large scratch on both sides auctioned with a cac. It no longer shows up in the cert lookup. I assume it was bought back.
Cac dogs are out there.
As with many things in life, there is a bell curve. The downward slope are the B and A coins for the grade. C coins for the grade are at the bell’s apex.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Ah yes.... the never ending opinions about opinions. Cheers, RickO
Assuming that A and B coins comprise more than 50% of coins within a given grade, by definition the average coins get stickered.
While CAC approval can be an effective filter by weeding out the low-end and problem coins, CAC approval does not necessarily indicate a strong or top-end coin (unless it’s a gold sticker).
Said another way—with some exceptions—buying a CAC approved coin simply indicates you are not buying a low-end or problem coin, not that you’re buying a great coin.
Collectors and the market as a whole seem to act as if all CAC approved coins are “A” coins, much to the benefit of CAC’s popularity and brand. As @TomB said, it is simply a tool that one must learn how to use.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
All hail the sliding scale.
Hey! That rhymes. You're a poet and didn't know it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Wasn't the premise of CAC at least in part to render consistency in graded coins by telling us what was properly graded and what wasn't properly graded?? If what the OP and others allege is factual then one of two things has happened: submitters to CAC have gotten lazy when screening submissions --- or --- CAC is subject to the same things as PCGS/NGC which results in inconsistent grading. To wit: they're human.
I am not sure that is exactly correct - C coins can be properly graded for the grade on the slab, but just low end for the grade, for example, according to the description on the CAC website.