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2007 GW dollar missing edge lettering but, what are these marks?
Eighteen63
Posts: 124 ✭✭✭✭
A recent post has me re-examining my small dollars and this has been stashed away since ‘07 because it is missing edge lettering. Are these die polish lines?
On the contrary, Google is not your friend.
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Struck thru grease
Ditto
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
@1madman & @FredWeinberg
Much appreciated, thank you!
On the contrary, Google is not your friend.
Can we see several pictures of the edge?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Y’know…I was afraid someone would request edge pics. Here’s my overly-caffeinated attempt at holding the camera steady. I will try again if these aren’t clear enough.
On the contrary, Google is not your friend.
Looks like a winner @Eighteen63! 👍🏻
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
That type of struck thru is fairly common on various coins.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Something wrong here. The alloy it is an compact alloy not plated or cladded. Normally it is with very in-significative variations: 88.5% Copper, 6% Zinc, 3.5% Manganese and 2% Nickel.
What it is the weight of the coin??
Also we say grease but I really doubt to be grease involved on Shuler Horizontal Presses.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
I don't think so.
There was a rash of these sharp-pointed "starburst" strikes on the early Presidential small dollars.
I think that has to do with the surface of the die peeling off. If, for example, a die was chromium-plated, once a bit of that plating is detached, the plating would continue to peel up in a radial direction due to the movement of metal under the die on each strike. Even if not plated, the thin hardened surface of a die might do a similar thing.
And these starbursts always seem to start at a location on the die where there is a sharp change in the relief (areas of higher die stress). I have not seen one where the starburst originated out in the middle of an open area away from design elements.
From my experience in minting, grease does not lead to long thin disturbances in the finish.
PS:
The 1984-P Kennedy Half shown above does look like a grease-filled die, especially the ear area where there is no detail.
I like your explanation Dan! 👍🏻
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@dcarr... Interesting explanation. Looking at the appearance, and reading your input, it does make more sense than grease. Would like to hear more input from @FredWeinberg on this topic. Cheers, RickO
@dcarr I agree for this explanation from one point of possibility. The second could be that during the strikes the Dies can heat on some point more then others. and will let those heat marks on the coins. Or could come from the internal heat potential of the planchet and the Dies. From 1999 the mint use glycerin base emulsif as agent which it is liquid and need 365 deg Celsius to solidify on heat.
The alloy of those coins is sensitive to temperature differential and could decolorate or go to the deeper coloration.
PS: why cooper core on this coin? seem to be plated.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
Very interesting post Daniel – I don’t disagree at all but I am not familiar with the chrome plated dies to contribute any info – I can say that I have seen this exact effect on numerous state quarters over the past 20+ years also.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
@dcarr Thanks for information that they use chromium. I know in 97 or 98 they look for Die enforcement and was about chromium and vanadium (not part of discussions). Good to know this.
Me I have in the hand a quarter Die from 2010. I just made the small XRF and give me Steel (main element), Vanadium (enforcement element) and Silver (elasticity element). This combination make sense for me for the Shuler presses. Before was Gruber presses.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
On the contrary, Google is not your friend.
All types of "steel" are mostly elemental iron with additives to attain certain properties (hardness, ductility, corrosion resistance, etc). A small amount of vanadium added to large batch of steel will increase the strength considerably. Silver is not generally used as a steel component. Is your die one that struck silver coins ?
The Schuler presses are super-high-speed, horizontal-acting. They utilize gravity for feeding blanks and ejecting struck coins.
The previous generation of presses were GRÄBENER brand. These are vertical-acting. They are still used at the US Mint for striking collector coins. Here is my US Denver Mint surplus GRÄBENER press:
.
moonlightmint.com/artifacts.htm
.
The current small "golden" dollars are similar to the dime, quarter and half dollar in that they are a "sandwich" of bonded (clad) layers. The core layer is pure copper for all of these. The outer layers are copper-nickel (75% copper, 25% nickel) on the dime, quarter, half dollar. The outer layers on the dollar coins are somewhat like manganese brass.
Under normal high-volume minting, the struck coins and dies do not get very much above room temperature. If they are getting hot, something is wrong (such as excessive metal flow) and in such a case the die will have a shortened lifespan. So that is a situation to avoid, if possible.
8 gr it is OK, I will pass trough all the presidential, I think I have at least one as this.
Thanks** dcarr ** for explanation. Also to give me the US name of the GRÄBENER presses. I say Grubner (German) because was in fact the design of Mr. Grubner. Shuler presses name has other history. the both presses are manufactured under Metallurgical Ministry and basic sold only to National Mints. Variants are for market. (My brother always was here when installing, calibrate or others Mint concerns) Now took retirement after 35 years as the first counselor of the Ministry.
Thanks to tell me that the Dollars are clad. I test (destroy) an 2007 Presidential (very circulate), and was compact alloy and not clad. More tests to come in the future. I will take them and made EDS on my own lab.
About my Die, in fact I have 9 (I will never have hole collection with retirement reason: OFF Design) was Denver 25 Cent (the test one).My Die is some how different
Thanks dcarr You are the only one in different forums which know what I am talking about.
PS: Nice press, take a lot of electricity.
I like you play TT. I challenge you even I am 63.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN