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Jose Altuve gets broken thumb in WBC, out for 8-10 weeks

MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

With Opening Day just a couple of weeks away, this has to seriously hurt the Astros.

Why would MLB team owner's not have a clause in every player's contract that forbids them from playing in these meaningless games?

Comments

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have to assume it is because the league is pushing the WBC because they feel it will make them money in the long run.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Too bad for Altuve, but yes just another example of why it's not a good idea to let your guys play in this series

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2023 10:13AM

    @MCMLVTopps said:

    Why would MLB team owner's not have a clause in every player's contract that forbids them from playing in these meaningless games?

    If pigs could fly.......I could give many, many reasons why that will never happen.......
    But it would all be anecdotal (Personal Experience). So I won't bother......
    Oh, Well.........

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭

    @MCMLVTopps said:
    With Opening Day just a couple of weeks away, this has to seriously hurt the Astros.

    Why would MLB team owner's not have a clause in every player's contract that forbids them from playing in these meaningless games?

    This is an MLB tournament. MLB and the owners are making money off of this tournament. This is not a random tournament. MLB and the owners want MLB players in the WBC

    Such a clause would have to be mutually agreed upon anyways. All Altuve would have to say is no and it wouldnt be in the contract

    The WBC is putting up huge numbers around the world. More people have gone to the games so far than attended the entire last season of the A's, multiple Japanese games have seen over 40% of Japanese households watching etc., Aside from making money the whole point of the WBC is to increase the popularity of baseball internationally which it does

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,204 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s not meaningless. It’s a baseball World Cup and it means a lot outside the US.

    Also I think we all love when bad things happen to good Astros, don’t we?

    😈

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The basis of the WBC is National Pride. Understanding that means you can also understand that it's more important to players such as Edwin Diaz and Jose Altuve to show allegiance to their Homeland than to their MLB teammates.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭

    @MCMLVTopps said:
    With Opening Day just a couple of weeks away, this has to seriously hurt the Astros.

    Why would MLB team owner's not have a clause in every player's contract that forbids them from playing in these meaningless games?

    This is what I have been saying all along! All the star players are the ones playing and risking their seasons. Stupid!

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,229 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Again, this is a completely meaningless exhibition tournament.

    What are MLB players getting paid for? preparing for and playing in the regular season in hopes of playing in the postseason and winning a WS. How does playing at 100% effort way too early in the season advance those goals?

    There is no logical reason for these players to be putting themselves at risk over an exhibition tournament.

    as for contract clauses, there have been many over the years. I seem to recall some contracts not allowing for players to engage in risky activities such as dirt bikes/motorcycles or playing basketball etc.

    it is very risky for pitchers to ramp up to 100% this early in the season. Even if they do not get directly injured, those pitchers who are throwing competitive innings this early will not be as effective in October as they would have been otherwise.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just like in the mid-1990s, when MLB ignored steroid use because they were making money like crazy.

    "Chicks Dig the Long-Ball"

    Steve

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 5:57AM

    The structure of MLB complicates this. While I assume most team front offices/owners would prefer that players not participate, I think the league is encouraging participation. The league is supposed to be representing the owners, so it almost seems like team owners are in a strange position. Their aggregate organization wants to encourage the WBC to “grow the game” (and their wallets) internationally….but the individual teams would rather keep their players healthy.

    Bottom line….if this were a non-MLB affiliated tournament I doubt players would be allowed to participate. I hate it because it is trying to attract people who are not fans of MLB teams at the expense of fans who are.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 7:58AM

    @SDSportsFan said:
    Just like in the mid-1990s, when MLB ignored steroid use because they were making money like crazy.

    "Chicks Dig the Long-Ball"

    Steve

    you drilled it Steve. baseball is notorious for doing things that seem copacetic at the time, but in truth the sport is signing its own death warrant. quick, is baseball more or less popular than it was in the mid-90s when blind eyes were cast? it has been a precipitous, downward trajectory. so in hindsight, was it worth it? apparently there are many associated with the sport who still can't answer that question correctly.

    i personally have no issues with an international baseball tournament. i just find it incredibly ill-timed. serious question for anyone who is a keen follower of the sport: is there really no other time between October-March that they can play it?

    i live in Houston and know a lot of Astros fans. many who were either born in Latin American countries, or are descendants from ancestors who were. know what the overwhelming majority of them have cared about since the inception of the WBC? things happening to any of their players that might have a detrimental effect on the upcoming season. why? because their team has tasted the ultimate caviar. if Mexico were to win an international baseball tournament, it would be a source of extreme pride for any Mexican i know who is also an Astros fan. but believe you me, that title would pale in comparison to MLB championship #3. and now that the leadoff hitter's hand just lost a tennis match with a 96 mph fireball a mere two weeks before the first game, that casts doubt on the season before it ever starts, and i've truly lost count of the number of people i personally know who are beyond incensed about it.

    i'm just one person, but to any sport that profoundly insults my intelligence and/or shoves a nonsensical plate of food in front of me and expects me to eat, i have some very bad news for you

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭

    @PaulMaul said:
    The structure of MLB complicates this. While I assume most team front offices/owners would prefer that players not participate, I think the league is encouraging participation. The league is supposed to be representing the owners, so it almost seems like team owners are in a strange position. Their aggregate organization wants to encourage the WBC to “grow the game” (and their wallets) internationally….but the individual teams would rather keep their players healthy.

    Bottom line….if this were a non-MLB affiliated tournament I doubt players would be allowed to participate. I hate it because it is trying to attract people who are not fans of MLB teams at the expense of fans who are.

    The dirty secret is that most MLB owners couldnt care less about their team all they care about is making money which the WBC is doing a great job of. The tournament is massive internationally. Yes some teams will encourage specific players not to participate and for the most part the best USA pitchers have sat out aside from the veterans at the end of their careers, but the international players love it. MLB and the owners are without question encouraging participation overall and have been since the inception of the WBC

    I really dont understand the sentiment that somehow this is at the expense of fans who like the game. Just because someone doesnt like it doesnt mean it hasnt been wildly successful and far more people are enjoying it than complaining about it. Even in the USA its been wildly successful setting attendance and TV ratings records. The USA players that are a part of it are loving it as well.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:

    @SDSportsFan said:
    Just like in the mid-1990s, when MLB ignored steroid use because they were making money like crazy.

    "Chicks Dig the Long-Ball"

    Steve

    you drilled it Steve. baseball is notorious for doing things that seem copacetic at the time, but in truth the sport is signing its own death warrant. quick, is baseball more or less popular than it was in the mid-90s when blind eyes were cast? it has been a precipitous, downward trajectory. so in hindsight, was it worth it? apparently there are many associated with the sport who still can't answer that question correctly.

    i personally have no issues with an international baseball tournament. i just find it incredibly ill-timed. serious question for anyone who is a keen follower of the sport: is there really no other time between October-March that they can play it?

    i live in Houston and know a lot of Astros fans. many who were either born in Latin American countries, or are descendants from ancestors who were. know what the overwhelming majority of them have cared about since the inception of the WBC? things happening to any of their players that might have a detrimental effect on the upcoming season. why? because their team has tasted the ultimate caviar. if Mexico were to win an international baseball tournament, it would be a source of extreme pride for any Mexican i know who is also an Astros fan. but believe you me, that title would pale in comparison to MLB championship #3. and now that the leadoff hitter's hand just lost a tennis match with a 96 mph fireball a mere two weeks before the first game, that casts doubt on the season before it ever starts, and i've truly lost count of the number of people i personally know who are beyond incensed about it.

    i'm just one person, but to any sport that profoundly insults my intelligence and/or shoves a nonsensical plate of food in front of me and expects me to eat, i have some very bad news for you

    There's no other time you could play it unless you just did it concurrently with the season missing those players. You cant stop the season for 2-3 weeks to do it and then expect everyone to just magically ramp up over night again. Same goes for if you played it in November. Youd have most players that either havent played in a month from being out of the playoffs or are already worn down from a long season and need to be in recovery mode. Spring training is the only option without having the stars miss games

    Missing Altuve isnt going to derail the Astros season. They're going to win the west again or at the very least make the playoffs. People get hurt in spring training as well and while some believe thats better, it ultimately makes no difference if they get hurt there or the WBC they're still hurt. Houston still has a loaded team that will be just fine missing him for the first month or two of the season.

    In the least shocking news ever sports fans never react rationally to things lol. The guys that are playing in the WBC chose to, no one forced them. Its unfortunate but injuries do happen and numerous ones has happened in spring training as well. Stammens career is probably over after his shoulder tear in Padres camp, Quintana has to be shut down for months with rib issues in the Mets camp etc

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 1:30PM

    @Basebal21

    I will explain to you what I don’t like about it as a fan of a particular team, the Mets.

    1. It is disruptive of spring training. For decades I have always enjoyed spring training, where the focus isn’t on competitive games, but on getting to know the players and the team. There is a nice, relaxed feel about the whole process. Having the WBC going on at the same time not only disrupts team activities, but disrupts my enjoyment of spring training.

    2. For all the talk of “representing your country,” the majority of the non-Latin, non-Asian teams feature American players with only dubious connection to those countries. So it ain’t exactly the Olympics.

    3. Although this ship has already sailed, it further weakens any feeling of team identity, especially among non-American players. Latin players are already likely closer to other players from their home countries than their own teammates, and this only reinforces that during a time when team building should be paramount.

    4. And of course the biggest thing is the risk of injury and overexertion before a six month season even starts, especially with pitchers who struggle to get through a season even without the WBC.

    There’s nothing wrong with it as a baseball tournament. But if anyone at MLB thinks folks in other countries are going to start caring about MLB other than the players from their own countries, I think they will be disappointed.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭

    If they want baseball in other countries then start their own leagues and leave our league alone. That way they can all pay for the stars just like we do. It would water down our league but would at least make them pay for the good players instead of stealing ours.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭

    @PaulMaul said:
    @Basebal21

    I will explain to you what I don’t like about it as a fan of a particular team, the Mets.

    1. It is disruptive of spring training. For decades I have always enjoyed spring training, where the focus isn’t on competitive games, but on getting to know the players and the team. There is a nice, relaxed feel about the whole process. Having the WBC going on at the same time not only disrupts team activities, but disrupts my enjoyment of spring training.

    2. For all the talk of “representing your country,” the majority of the non-Latin, non-Asian teams feature American players with only dubious connection to those countries. So it ain’t exactly the Olympics.

    3. Although this ship has already sailed, it further weakens any feeling of team identity, especially among non-American players. Latin players are already likely closer to other players from their home countries than their own teammates, and this only reinforces that during a time when team building should be paramount.

    4. And of course the biggest thing is the risk of injury and overexertion before a six month season even starts, especially with pitchers who struggle to get through a season even without the WBC.

    There’s nothing wrong with it as a baseball tournament. But if anyone at MLB thinks folks in other countries are going to start caring about MLB other than the players from their own countries, I think they will be disappointed.

    In regards to number 2, it was the same way for the Olympics when that was around for the European countries. There just simply arent enough European players yet unless their country has a Caribbean island to draw from. It has however helped expand the game into Europe with profesional leagues now in France, Germany and Italy to name a few and are starting to see some European players in the pros such as Kepler from the Twins. Australia has seen a large growth in popularity as well.

    It was never going to be something that happened overnight and soccer will almost certainly always remain king in Europe, but it is accomplishing what they hoped to accomplish by increasing the popularity around the world in places that traditionally werent very interested in baseball.

    The teams will be fine in terms of identity. They're professional athletes and realize its a job. Theyre used to getting traded etc and know they dont have to like everyone to play on a team with them. Even without the WBC the locker room isnt going to be the same at the end of the season as it was at the start and everyone in the locker room knows that.

    I would try and keep my young pitchers out of it if I was a team, but ultimately its up to the player. The position players benefit from the meaningful at bats, but for the most part as is the case with every baseball tournament the best possible pitching has a lot of people that declined. Japan is generally the only team that sends their best possible pitching staff to these international baseball events

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    If they want baseball in other countries then start their own leagues and leave our league alone. That way they can all pay for the stars just like we do. It would water down our league but would at least make them pay for the good players instead of stealing ours.

    I believe they do have their own leagues

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭✭

    Players play. Folks should stop pretending that there are no injuries during Spring training. Griffey, Nomar, and Adam Wainwright all had season altering injuries during spring training.

    Robb

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭

    Injuries in spring training are to be expected as players are getting in shape for a long season but WBC players are getting hurt because they are playing before their bodies have had a spring training. Those injuries to the Astros and Mets players will affect the teams big time.

  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Spring training injuries are part of the game, these WBC injuries are akin to the players getting hurt in the off-season playing in a pickup game. I can't understand how contracts aren't written to preclude this from happening.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fergie23 said:
    Players play. Folks should stop pretending that there are no injuries during Spring training. Griffey, Nomar, and Adam Wainwright all had season altering injuries during spring training.

    Robb

    Not even remotely the same as the WBC

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    Injuries in spring training are to be expected as players are getting in shape for a long season but WBC players are getting hurt because they are playing before their bodies have had a spring training. Those injuries to the Astros and Mets players will affect the teams big time.

    Neither one of those injuries were because their body wasnt ready. Players are already ready by the time they show up to spring training, pitchers just need to lengthening it out a bit. Altuve got hit by a pitch which could happen anywhere and Diaz was just some freak accident. Dont forget the Mets actually practice celebrating winning the world series so it could have happened then as well.

    Most position players are playing some form of winterball in the DR, Venezuela, Mexico etc including big names. Acuna Jr was playing in Venezuela. Guys will take a little time off after the season but its not like theyre just sitting around doing nothing in the offseason waiting for spring training to get in shape

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