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The strongest auction sales - realized price vs. estimate

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 19, 2023 6:51AM in U.S. Coin Forum

What coins have sold the for the most as a percentage or dollar amount over estimate?

For percentages, I can think of the following Pogue coins:

Sold for $6,600 on $300 estimate:

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-LY8NY/1943-d-jefferson-nickel-ms-67-fs-pcgs


Sold for $4,080 on $300 estimate:

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-LY84C/1938-new-rochelle-new-york-250th-anniversary-poor-1-pcgs-cac


Comments

  • burdellburdell Posts: 53 ✭✭✭✭

    Fun topic. A quick look (for eagles) leads to Kuenker 30SEP20. Several realized 10x estimate. Most amount was 75,000 euros at 1.17 or about $87,000:

  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sold for $270,250

  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sold for $364,250

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,451 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2023 10:36AM

    @Zoins
    The coins you posted are examples that represent very poor estimates by the auction house. Those estimates were written by someone that did not know what they were doing.

    Seriously, a monster toned high grade war nickel will sell for $100-300? I want to live in that fantasy world too!
    As for the second coin, that's a specialty niche lowball thing I still do not understand BUT I do know something like that would sell much higher than the estimate provided.

    Then when you add in the desirability of the provenance, those estimates are even more of a joke.

    These are examples of auction house mistakes or marketing tactics. Legend has done this many times for monster toners.
    Auction houses do this for a few reasons I think...one being they want to be able to say that cheap coin x sold for many times estimates and you should consign your widgets to us too if you want to see great results. It comes down to marketing tactics and you have to see through the complete BS.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So many factors are involved in auctions.... Deep pockets vying for registry sets, collectors fighting over a rare coin, testosterone factor (that is big time factor). Often, such as shown above, common sense is over ruled by desire. Cheers, RickO

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 6:51AM

    In most cases, it is purely a marketing play...
    The AH is for sure aware of the potential these coins offer, ..............and the clientele who will attend..
    Do you guys think even for a nanosecond that this was 'REAL HONEST" BIDDING? Yes, of course, it could happen.... by co-incident only.
    there are at least 3+ AH-bidders on the l_ive premises and others online_ whose job is to do nothing but carefully but effectively bid.
    remember the AH does have all the pre-bids and knows the bidders as well as the "lurkers". They also know the online interests of their clients and "the deep pockets" some have.
    The "implants", usually reputable and also knowledgeable people, know exactly what to do.
    In the end, if it appears that the price the AH has expected is ok or above expectation, another short bidding war, usually between the "implants" and perhaps an external bidder, happens before the hammer comes down,
    Often it is the AH who is the owner of the item. They have owned the coin for some time, and "the grass has grown over the old purchase" or the coin has toned a bit.....and now it is a new find...
    My guess is that a bidding outsider will never know what just happened.....until they write the check...
    and then, they still do not know..... because "they wanted that item" at any cost. The Auction Houses know that. Some use the services of psychologists to evaluate their client's "auction behavior" ahead of time.
    Highly experienced collectors do not bid themselves. They pay a fee to a proxy person, usually a layperson or a small-time collector, to bid for them.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 495 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ let me get this straight..the auction house owns the coin...has multiple planted bidders online and in person...and has psychologists to analyze the bidding behavior of their clients...all in an effort to run up the price. What you are saying is the auction is a sham...or scheme to defraud. This is a serious claim..is this mere speculation or do you have evidence to support your claim?

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 7:28AM

    I have NO evidence, as nobody will most likely ever have, and I have not said that ****it is**** that way and I have not mentioned any specific AH. Use your mind and evaluate, put 1+1 together and evaluate again.
    And, be realistic.
    I have not accused any specific AH of wrongdoing!
    They can set the start price at $1...., knowing it will end up in the stratosphere.
    Perhaps you might want to attend some high-end auctions in Europe and evaluate them carefully.
    Ask yourself: what is happening here????
    PLEASE NOTE: NOBODY has to bid. Bidding is always an individual's own decision.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    I have NO evidence, as nobody will most likely ever have, and I have not said that ****it is**** that way and I have not mentioned any specific AH. Use your mind and evaluate, put 1+1 together and evaluate again.
    And, be realistic.
    I have not accused any specific AH of wrongdoing!
    They can set the start price at $1...., knowing it will end up in the stratosphere.
    Perhaps you might want to attend some high-end auctions in Europe and evaluate them carefully.
    Ask yourself: what is happening here????
    PLEASE NOTE: NOBODY has to bid. Bidding is always an individual's own decision.

    Perhaps chemtrails overhead caused the bidders to overbid.

    peacockcoins

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    Sold for $364,250

    :o:#

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set:

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps chemtrails overhead caused the bidders to overbid.

    This is why I no longer subscribe to the belief that metal spaghetti strainers provide adequate protection... 😉

    And fluoride turned out not to be what it once was believed it be... sort of took the fun out of watching Dr. StrangeLove- one of the greatest satires of the Silver Screen

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    They can set the start price at $1...., knowing it will end up in the stratosphere.
    Perhaps you might want to attend some high-end auctions in Europe and evaluate them carefully.
    Ask yourself: what is happening here????

    This thread is devolving quickly but...is there NO chance in your mind that many people pay attention to most of these markets and that the market is mostly efficient? Dealers/market makers will happily buy coins at high but below price guide prices for eventual resale. It MUST be shenanigans?

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do GC, Heritage, and Stacks provide estimated sale prices? I don’t think so, even though they provide prior auction results, and the latter two provide price guide values. Legend and DLRC though do provide estimates.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:
    Do GC, Heritage, and Stacks provide estimated sale prices? I don’t think so, even though they provide prior auction results, and the latter two provide price guide values. Legend and DLRC though do provide estimates.

    Steve

    Stacks often doesn’t but they did for the Pogue sales. For some reason the estimates on the last of those auctions (which included the monster-toned war nickel) were absurdly low for many coins. The gorgeous 1976-D Ike in that sale sold for $4080 against an estimate of $50-$100.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 9:44PM

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    Sold for $364,250

    ... on an estimate of $10,000 to $12,500.

    That was an amazing result! Being a MS68+FB POP 1/0 CAC doesn't hurt. And it's owned by a forum member too!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 9:45PM
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 10:18PM

    @david3142 said:

    @winesteven said:
    Do GC, Heritage, and Stacks provide estimated sale prices? I don’t think so, even though they provide prior auction results, and the latter two provide price guide values. Legend and DLRC though do provide estimates.

    Steve

    Stacks often doesn’t but they did for the Pogue sales. For some reason the estimates on the last of those auctions (which included the monster-toned war nickel) were absurdly low for many coins. The gorgeous 1976-D Ike in that sale sold for $4080 against an estimate of $50-$100.

    Gorgeous coin! Brent Pogue really had marvelous type sets for toners and lowballs.

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