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USMINT - Increasing Household Order Limit for Morgan and Peace Products
jshaulis
Posts: 798 ✭✭✭✭
Just got the following email. Thoughts?
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I got the email and am canceling subscriptions.
That’s so disappointing.
Site seems to be not responding right now. I am not able to do anything with my subs right now.
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What is the max mintage? For each product
Thanks in advance
Martin
Too many pieces. I'll likely be setting my subs to 1 each except for the 2 coin reverse proof I might max.
400,000 for the individual proofs, 275,000 for the uncirculateds and 250,000 for the reverse set.
Not a good sign for interest in these. I cut mine to 1 each also and 2 of the set.
Edit to add: I still have extras of the 2021 that I over ordered
I don't understand the reason for even making these in 2023 ...I understand the significance of the 2021 pieces but there is no significant anniversary to warrant making these as commemorative dollars-outside of income, or perhaps to placate people who missed out on the 2021 pieces (which you can still easily buy in the aftermarket). I'm still on the fence on these.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
They look like numismatic losers. I may reduce my subscription to the reverse proof to 1 set.
Look like dead inventory needs to be moved.... High prices, saturation, decreased interest.... Cheers, RickO
See the official thread to follow the 2023s from start to finish
The same reason the ASE has the Walking Liberty design and has been issued annually since 1986. These are popular, iconic designs that were resurrected to great fanfare for the 100th anniversary. People expressed an interest, and the Mint agreed that they would be popular going forward on an annual basis.
No, they are not meant to be commemoratives, although that was the idea back in 2021. They are now meant to be annual issues, to supply a market demand and generate significant revenue for the US Treasury. Why would you be any more on the fence about these than about the collector versions of the ASEs the Mint sells every year? Is there really anything special about Walking Liberty halves as opposed to Morgan or Peace dollars?
Not an apples/apples comparison, at least not insofar as the normal uncirculated examples are concerned; the ASEs were designed to compete in the bullion market and a separate proof option was offered for collectors. These are not intended nor were they created to compete in the bullion market against ASEs, Maples etc.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Site is so busy you cannot get to the subscriptions page. Wonder if people are adding or subtracting?
I’m guessing they will not be flipable unless you are a TV dealer selling at late nite with a nice line of ………..
I will be reducing my subs also.
Thanks for the information @jeffas1974
Martin
Time to cancel. Thanks for reminding me
At the time of this post:
I have never been a big fan of this continuing release of these. 2021 was enough. I’ll say that I reduced my quantity several months back. The reverse proof ase’s from 2021 are not even doing as well as most any of the releases. One is enough.
I have not had faith in the mint and why they do what they do.
The 2023 W proof ase and congratulations set are still available and no I don’t agree with those who say it’s not a big deal. The ase’s ( collector proofs go unavailable quickly. This is 2 weeks and counting.
I’m so grateful that I’m just a wee little collector. And I still manage to mostly suck at my choices but I do collect what I like 😂
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
They killed my interest with the waiting room bologna.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Correct. It's a collector issue that had strong demand and continuing interest. The "normal" uncirculated examples are analogous to the burnished ASEs.
If you're not interested, that's fine. It's expensive bullion for those who are interested, and they will sell a lot because people love the designs. It was a commemorative, and now it's an annual issue, after a hiatus last year because they couldn't source planchets.
The idea was never to create a flipping frenzy. It was to commemorate the 100th anniversary. Now that they know what demand is, they want to meet it.
If that number turns out to be half what it looks like, because people only want what they can't get, that's fine too. They'll adjust mintages down to true demand, whatever that turns out to be.
It will still be in the hundreds of thousands, just like proof ASEs. If not, not. Then the program will end, and people will complain about that.
So-people will either buy them or they won't. Thanks for clearing that up for me
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
My subscription is the maximum three sets for the reverse proof only. I wasn’t interested in the other Morgan or peace dollars. Based on this email, I will reduce my subscription to one reverse proof set.
Am I understanding this correctly...that the HHL for each item went from 5 to 25???
Did we have any idea before now how heavily (or not) these had been subscribed? Does the Mint publish those figures?
Or did they sense that these were grossly undersubscribed?
I'm honestly asking because increasing the HHL by a factor of 5 (for anything...anywhere) is insane!
PS...for whatever it's worth...I just dialed down all my subscription totals for the single coins, but dialed UP my order for the two-coin RP set.
I'm a little confused here...
The HHLs have been increased, not the mintages. Why such a negative reaction from some people?
I suppose that this could be interpreted as due to soft demand, but it will also limit the number of people who can buy them from the mint.
I think I did a subscription previously for one of each. I'll just let it ride.
My pleasure. You were on the fence and didn't understand why the Mint was taking an opportunity to exploit interest in classic designs to generate some money for the Treasury. I was just taking a stab at explaining it.
This ^^^^. People only seem to want what they can't have. The Mint signaling these won't be an instant sell out makes people not want them. Nothing has changed, other than the hope and perception of a quick easy flip.
Meanwhile, serious resellers who don't need to make an instant 2x or 3x might scoop up what's left at the higher HHLs, and then people will be kicking themselves for bailing.
As of the end of last year, I believe there was anywhere from 20% to 40% of each of the options still available...with the RP set at the lower end of that estimate...is that bad for something not coming out until July???
I'm honestly confused by what's happening here? Was the Mint hoping for a complete sellout BEFORE they went on sale this summer?
I don't think they are "grossly under subscribed." It's just that they have been available for a while, at a seriously increased mintage over 2021, and they are not sold out. So the Mint is making more available to those who want them.
They used to make products like these to demand, with no mintage or HHLs. So, while a 5x increase might seem huge, it's only increasing order limits by 20 units for products with a mintage of 275-400K.
In the scheme of things they are just trying to move things along by accelerating expressions of interest for sales that would otherwise take place when HHLs are lifted on the day after release. If that spooks people into releasing coins they never really wanted, so be it. As others have said, that will only serve to limit the amount offered for resale after release, which only benefits anyone who is actually buying.
Probably. Isn't that what happened with ASEs the last few years?
It turns out that the mintages are too high, and there are too many different options to support them. Good for the Mint, because they are not leaving sales on the table. Bad for flippers, since everyone can get whatever they want directly from the Mint.
AGREE
Didn't buy the 2021's and already cancelled the 2 coin RP set 2 weeks ago. Just not feelin' it.
This would also be the only way you can own a proof Morgan dollar. The proof Morgans in the original series cost thousands of dollars and most of them don't even have cameo contrast. One idea for the Mint is to use its broad statutory authority for gold coins to create a 2 coin set using the $5 or $10 Morgan patterns in .9999 gold with a Morgan Dollar.
Lol everyone here seems to be dialing down, anyone dialing up? 25 of anything? Anybody? You could easily now sit comfortably in a waiting room and grab 105...or just subscribe and kick back.
I myself haven't decided, but may dial down as well.
And why was the 2 coin set limited to HHL of 5 ?? Is that the star of this year? Makes you go hmmmmmm
I dialed up.
The 2 coin set has a lower mintage limit than the other coins, by a lot.
I dialed up on that one as well.
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I meant that as 2 separate answers. He asked who dialed up. [Yes.] He also asked why the RP had the lower limit. [Lower Mintage]
Personally, I think all the mintages are too high to create much secondary market value.
One of the articles quoted the Mint spox and said that 90% of the mintage has been claimed via subscriptions.
Given the way the market bleats, I think they're priming the pump for an immediate sellout and thus "success". Putting more coins into the hands of the flippers - now that all of the real collectors have had time to subscribe - makes that more likely.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Yes, it was always the star, due to the fact that it's a first, the mintage is much closer to expected demand, and it's not competing with multiple different flavors of the same thing with various mint marks.
Still around 37,000 of the reverse 2 coin set available so there was a slight net increase in subscriptions after the bump up in the HHL.
I'm only on the fence about whether or not I will stock these- nothing else. As to the rest of your response, I actually stated in my original post..."I understand the significance of the 2021 pieces but there is no significant anniversary to warrant making these as commemorative dollars-outside of income, or perhaps to placate people who missed out on the 2021 pieces (which you can still easily buy in the aftermarket)." So again, thanks for telling me what everyone already knows. The mint makes coins to generate money. I maintain that these issues will not have the consistent widespread demand some think and are overvalued for what one receives. That said, there will always be a group of OCD buyers that simply must buy every new release-thus most of these 2023 issues will likely sell. I do not think it will be sustainable over the long term however. I will predict here and now that sales numbers will gradually decline as people get bored and realize they aren't good bang for the buck.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I'm going to stand-fast, be in watch & see mode as I feel changes are not over yet. I wouldn't be overly surprised if the mint cut the mintage numbers and send these (maybe only some, UNC, PRF) from over stock to desired? Maybe, maybe not?
No reason to make a knee-jerk move as there's plenty of time to make decisions. IMO.
I agree, the 2021 made a great addition, 2023 will only unique based on final mintage. If no change, I'll probably go 2 each, one for each of my kids, more to come...
Dialed up to 5 of each, based on subscription changes. Basing purchase decisions on other people's opinions is pointless. Everyone has a different reason for collecting or not collecting. I'm comfortable with 5 of each 😁
Basing purchase decisions on other people's opinions is pointless. Everyone has a different reason for collecting or not collecting.
Nice answer!
Well ok. Let’s not get in a hurry to proclaim the 2- coin set the winner. 250,000 is not a low mintage. The 2- coin reverse proof type 1&2 ase’s only had a
Mintage of 125,000 and well. Check eBay. The proof example may hold water but they are making a bunch. 400,000. The peace example in proof is with an S mint mark. ?
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Remember this from last year ? They claimed the ASE's were sold out thru enrollments, however thousands became available after the on sale date.
************According to the email I received from the mint, both proofs and the uncirculated eagles are sold out thru enrollments.
They say that it is unlikely that many will be available when they go on sale. Will this be the case or is this just hype to get more enrollments? ** Remember that box of chocolates thing** !!!
Remember I warned that the mint was up to new tricks this year to game the gamers. Sold Out ? Available, Back Order, Available again, Remind Me, Back Order again. They just keep coming and coming.
They are producing a boatload of these coins. You will be amazed at the final quantities.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1073086/2022-ases-sold-out-by-enrollments-the-w-unc-no-way-the-s-is-unlimited-mintage-official/p1
Yes...I've dialed up the two coin RP set and the individual proof coins (slightly).
And I've dialed down the Unc. coins.
So are we thinking that these are essentially going to be sold out BEFORE they even go on sale in July???
Wouldn't that create a frenzy among the TV sales folks?
No we’re ( I’m) thinking that there’s too many and many are dailing down.
Too many.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
And I respectfully disagree. These will not only sell to OCD collectors who need everything.
They will sell to everyone who likes the classic designs. The same people who buy proof and burnished eagles every year.
The anniversary sparked the creation, but it was the overwhelming response that spawned the new series. You seem not to understand that because you are fixated on the lack of an anniversary.
They will be as sustainable as any other annual set. Morgan and Peace dollars are very, very popular over 100 years after release. These will be as well. Take it to the bank.
Regardless of whether they sell 100K, 250K or 400K. Only selling 300K out of a maximum of 400K will not render these failures. They will eventually adjust mintages to demand, and still sell hundreds of thousands of whatever variations they choose to produce.
Not necessarily unless they are preselling them. They aren't obligated to sell them at all if they don't think they will pop.