Supposed to be expert claims I’m wrong. PART 2
ifthevamzarockin
Posts: 8,902 ✭✭✭✭✭
Since we all had soo much fun with Part 1 I thought it would be fun if we can have a part 2. 
Let's see if any of these show up here on the forum. 
The first 10 full coin photos are in 2x2's and will be dropped in random places.
The other 19 were not as dramatic so I did want to waste time with photos and 2x2's and will be released into circulation as is.
coin 1
coin 2
coin 3
coin 4
coin 5
coin 6
coin 7
coin 8
coin 9
coin 10
19 not as dramatic.
10
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I predict coin #8 will be on here within a week.
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I like 5.
I agree. Good job with that one. That just has to be an error...
Interesting experiment.... Should be fun to watch the results. Cheers, RickO
According to Title 18, Chapter 17 of the U.S. Code, which sets out crimes related to coins and currency, anyone who “alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens” coins can face fines or prison time. The same goes for debasing – that is, decreasing the proportion of precious metals – in gold or silver coins struck or coined at an American mint.
https://www.livescience.com/34286-legal-or-illegal-to-destroy-coins-paper-money.html
I think that source has left out an important component of the relevant law: it is illegal to do those things for fraudulent purposes (to defraud someone).
For currency, intentionally rendering a bill unfit for circulation is illegal, but for coins the "fraudulent purposes" part is what is illegal.
So you are the cause of all this trouble!>
@ifthevamzarockin said:
Home made errors.
Dang Freddie
2 days in a row. First thing I read from you is bashing another forum member. What is it with you and early morning posts? Perhaps you should kick the dog or something before you post. Yesterday it was poor JM and today, here we are, new person same cooling effect 🧐
Now as far as my hammer and leather strap “error making tools “ go ahead and send in the feds. Thanks buddy 😂😂😂
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
What are you trying to do to us
More arguments to come
Collector
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I don't kick dogs. People? Maybe!😂🤣
Yup
"Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or"
Bye bye folks! It looks like I'm going to the Federal Penitentiary.
It's the crime of the century! I'm sure to get my 15 minutes of fame on the FBI's top 10 list and have my photo on the news and in every post office.
Don't you have something better to do like argue over a Vaultbox thread or search a box of quarters for W's?
Next I'm going to make a bunch of W quarter errors and release them to circulation just to piss you off.
Ok, well argument could be made that OP admits he is defacing the coins in order to fraudulently create "error" coins by putting them in to circulation for unknowing persons to find them and claim they are true error coins.
I didn't say a word when it was done as an educational tool in response to the original thread but he admits in this thread that he is now putting them in to circulation.
At the very least, how can this be good for the hobby?🤔
I always wonder how Daniel Carr gets away with his stuff!!!
I tend to agree with that last part of it, but it's only criminal if he sells them as errors.
All kidding aside, he does have a point. While it's not criminal, it really isn't much different than the Chinese making a copper-nickel Morgan. While it wouldn't fool an expert, it could fool a novice.
I wonder if the HPA covers errors...????
I think it's all good if you put an Omega on them or sign them D Carr.
They look unusual enough that someone will probably notice them, but I like my fake error better because it’s raised instead of incuse
Mr_Spud
My point exactly
...
@WQuarterFreddie "in order to fraudulently create "error" coins by putting them in to circulation"
I have not released them yet and therefore have not committed a crime.
@jmlanzaf "but it's only criminal if he sells them as errors."
No, it's a crime to release them back to circulation.
Yes, it's also a crime to sell them as errors.
Right, as originally posted that would put DCarr out of business and in jail.
What part of the country is it that the Great American Error Hunt is taking place?
The cool thing about real mint errors is that they are real mint errors.
I don't think it's a crime to release them. You have (I think) no intent to defraud.
Well, except the ones intentionally made at the Mint itself...
Even with no intent to defraud it is a crime to release them.
With intent to defraud it is a larger crime.
Those ones are super cool, designated as error coins and extremely expensive.
It is not a crime to release them as the releaser does not benefit.
Now if he knowing made them and tried to sell them as real min t errors, that would be crime that would never be punished.
Maybe you could call them "overstrikes"
...
That is not correct.
Some of you guys are relentless....not that it's unfounded!
I could explain it to you but I really don't want to hijack my own thread, we have enough Daniel Carr threads to post on.
I know the answer, just don't accept it...
No hiJack intended!
Just out of curiosity, I looked up how many times people have actually been prosecuted for defacing coins or currency, because being ex-law enforcement, I know that not all laws are actually enforced (far from it).
To date, in the US, there has been exactly ONE instance of someone getting prosecuted for defacement.
"In the United States VS Amidon, 1980, a piece of misdemeanor information charged two counts of mutilating national bank obligations in violation of 18 U.S.C. s. 333. This was the only case where anyone had ever been prosecuted under the defacement statute."
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
There is an exception for educational purposes.
bob
Oh god...........
@AUandAG I have not seen that in the Law; the ANA supposedly has one but details are sketchy. In my meeting a few years ago in DC with Beth Deisher and a Sr. Agent of the Secret Service he was pretty clear that the law does not make that exception...
@ctf_error_coins I made the two 11 cent errors just for you since you mentioned it in the other thread.
"Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or"
Why do you guys leave out the fraud part.
If you do it for fun with no profit its ok.
It is also ok if you do it on purpose and disclose that fact then there is no fraud.
Carved hobo nickels are just fine.
Kids placing coins on railroad tracks.
Dcarr Coins.
They are sold as "ART" pieces and are not placed back in circulation for daily use in commerce.
Just like cut out coins used in a necklace.
They also do not use a design created by the mint.
As I already posted when he did it in the other thread I had no issues with it but this time it is not for educational purposes but for his amusement.
Jeez Freddie, do you keep tabs on us to report to the IRS as well? 😂
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So many of you complain about the novice posters who post their "error" coins. However you are ok with the OP generating fake error coins, putting them in circulation for the sole purpose of novice collectors finding them and generating a thread for members to complain and make fun of them.
But I am wrong for ruining his plot? Interesting. Again, how is this good for the hobby? No one has answered my question and some are attacking me. Awesome. 🙄
I'll bet they show up on the forum ATS before they show up here, that forum gets way more junk posted there.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
This thread reminds me that I have to get more nails today!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I hope I come across one of those.
I sell on eBay and I also have scheduled dental work to pay for.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I know I will come off as a goody two shoes, but consider that there are some decent people out there who may waste their time and the time of dealers and other experts, for our amusement. Not everyone is a bozo like the other thread OP.
Ok. Here you go. Have you evidence that every time a new person posts a found coin somewhere, that asking here or ATS has resulted in them being ridiculed and going away mad? No, as a matter of fact, perhaps there’s great benefits to these.
1. There’s the obvious, it brings them to notice something different and ask
2. I’ve seem a number of times the new person finding out a whole new world is out there
3. How often have we recommended the Redbook
4. You see what I’m saying, not to be on your case, just another answer that you seem to be “ demanding “ 🧐
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
A number of our members place worn Buffs, Mercs, old Lincolns, and the like in circulation (me too) as a means of sparking interest in our hobby. A MUCH better way to create interest if that's the objective.
Of course! That is a great idea! 😎