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Thoughts on this 1793 LC...

lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Hello Everyone... this is a coin that I'm not considering but I'd like to get the Forum's take. Here are the seller's images...



Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.

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    cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful if authentic.

    Many happy BST transactions
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We need better pics for a proper evaluation. Looks like the obverse suffered some major hits.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    BamaphilBamaphil Posts: 113 ✭✭

    Good looking coin to be 230 years old. ✌️

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    burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2023 5:15PM

    Looks like the 1 "sold" previously by a seller who was removed and his listings given the orange hoodie award; supposedly sold 2 1793's (circled) but now removed from the records.

    Maybe just an odd coincidence and this is the winner of the removed listing...



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    jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Been looking at this one closely. As burfle 23 said, this cent has been listed before and the old listing can no longer be accessed, along with a second 1793 cent that was sold at the same time. The seller received two positive feedback for his two 93 sales. He also changed his username.

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.

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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok... I was looking at the reverse, left ribbon tails seem off to me but it could be a filled die. I just dont have the experience in looking at a lot of these to definitively make that judgement.

    I contacted the seller to get better images of the obverse... but I'll post the link to the ebay listing in the meantime... BRB...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's the listing. The obverse die swelling looks odd too... as does the lower hair curl.

    Also... I just noticed the 2 feedback... and no returns...

    https://forums.collectors.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=https://www.ebay.com/itm/374552491633?hash=item5735117671:g:b6UAAOSwi6NkCL2h&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwGVpLt9CTvzhT7zKV2LyCgNUtIYZ7HnYVJ7uLQ3phtXpFAFD12CGdhrPgb0vRAS6eyMe6gVqdY27376Bn2UBKnf3O%2FF%2FsspZSahcgA6GYtfsWG6Xt0vQ%2Fofek3LbIM1ncqC7sCv%2BsD8KOurma74ENY1GV8gkJay0nHhjb1ISSRmiHPDr%2F8bA6Gc4kzpwCjrTAPttQQhuKrBDuQLe1u00%2F5bcMhunyjeRdOSJDme6%2ByaEby3iTYCuhqoU3nA2q8plCw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5zRycvZYQ

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    S-6, sprung die/heavy bow. Looks authentic, everything lines up:

    Empty Nest Collection
    Matt’s Mattes

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    RayboRaybo Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I call shenanigans, something just doesn't seem right.

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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @renomedphys said:
    S-6, sprung die/heavy bow. Looks authentic, everything lines up:

    Who's book do you have? I've got Penny Whimsey and it's not the easiest book to follow...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Noyes United States Large Cents 1793-1814

    Empty Nest Collection
    Matt’s Mattes

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The swollen area doesn’t appear to align to the sprung die marker.


    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've not heard back from the seller yet, but if I do I'll also ask about a weight and size dimensions (diameter and thickness)...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The obverse image from the previous listing:

    This one made me suspicious as it looks cropped from something else...

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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's the S-6 from Coinfacts...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if it might be an electrotype. At this price level, I wouldn't buy a raw coin especially off of eBay.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    I wonder how many of the 71 watchers are people on this forum. Too many red flags for me. A new seller who supposedly isn’t a collector yet appears to know a lot about coins from the description of the large cent.

    Out of curiosity, how can you see that this particular coin has been listed before? Thanks!

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Seller does not accept returns", fuzzy pictures, and 0 feedback are three big red flags especially for a four figure coin. Hard pass.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    "Seller does not accept returns", fuzzy pictures, and 0 feedback are three big red flags especially for a four figure coin. Hard pass.

    This... and a nonresponsive seller. I've sent two messages over four days and I'm getting crickets...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    I wonder how many of the 71 watchers are people on this forum. Too many red flags for me. A new seller who supposedly isn’t a collector yet appears to know a lot about coins from the description of the large cent.

    Out of curiosity, how can you see that this particular coin has been listed before? Thanks!

    I posted it here!

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    @jeffas1974 said:
    I wonder how many of the 71 watchers are people on this forum. Too many red flags for me. A new seller who supposedly isn’t a collector yet appears to know a lot about coins from the description of the large cent.

    Out of curiosity, how can you see that this particular coin has been listed before? Thanks!

    I posted it here!

    Yep, saw your post but I wanted to know how you were able to find that info out. :smile:

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    burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, I follow bad coin listings and the original one caught my suspicious eye; I followed the seller and reported my concerns through his sales and then he and his listings disappeared....

    These still show in the feed but all are gone when clicked on: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_Complete=1&_fss=1&_saslop=1&_sasl=audcar8&LH_SpecificSeller=1

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    semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 931 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would not buy any coin of that value unless it was slabbed and the slab was verified. If I knew a dealer for years like our Ritchie Rich and it wasn't slabbed, I would have bought it from him.

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    burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely something off with the profile/ nose- maybe repaired damage? Ans the "L" appears too close to the "I"...

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    NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Liberty is growing a Pinocchio nose. Not good.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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    burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks genuine but tooled; someone will buy it...

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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just a quite update... I've emailed the seller twice. Once for pictures of the obverse and the second for a verification of dimensions (weight and diameter)... still no word.

    Someone will definitely buy it... its currently at $1875 (28 bids/10 bidders)...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm suspicious of both the coin and seller. There's no reason to test your luck there.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,279 ✭✭✭✭✭

    After 28 bids and a fairly expensive auction almost over, why has noone asked for a better photo of the obverse? Evidently the seller is capable of better photography as the reverse is viewable. I would be a bit worried of the relatively newness of the seller for this calibur coin. Most likely alright and ebay will also "most likely" refund should it turn out to be counterfeit.
    Good luck.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:
    After 28 bids and a fairly expensive auction almost over, why has noone asked for a better photo of the obverse? Evidently the seller is capable of better photography as the reverse is viewable. I would be a bit worried of the relatively newness of the seller for this calibur coin. Most likely alright and ebay will also "most likely" refund should it turn out to be counterfeit.
    Good luck.
    Jim

    I did. I also asked for diameter and weight... unresponsive seller.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is no Santa Claus in numismatics.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well... it's either going to be Santa Claus or Krampus... only an hour and a half left to go and it's bid up to $2400...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Final price... $3550. Over 50 bids from the same 11 bidders throughout...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More than double what I paid for one of mine, but it’s in a lot higher grade.
    But mine is now in a straight grade PCGS holder, so it’s got that going for it….

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug

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