New 2007-P Washington Dollar Variety?
Steven59
Posts: 9,149 ✭✭✭✭✭
An interesting variety - Has anyone seen this video, heard of this coin or found one?
Check out this Youtube Video: (Don't let the guy's voice put you to sleep though! 
)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNsCkyPIgo0
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
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Comments
@OAKSTAR will surely chime in soon.
Heard of it and saw photos in Coin World a while back.
I was just wondering if they were collectible or not. I have a few unopened 2007 rolls and would it be worth it to open them up or just forget about it.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
smalldollars.com/dollar/page42.html
@Steven59-
Yes, I recently noticed this video as well. I think they did a pretty good job with it. Interest in this coin has increased lately. Over the years, there has been some disagreement amongst those in the error and variety community.
In years/months past, there have been a few articles written about it with no definitive conclusion.... Until recently.
The coin is believed to have come from the same working die. The die was (for whatever reason) altered. Similar to the extra leaves on the two Wisconsin quarters but this can't be proven.
It looks as though each of the TPG'ers (at least tentatively) have now recognized it as a new variety with the anticipation of it being recognized in the Cherrypicker's Guide with an FS designator. I'll post some articles I've found.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I wouldn't forget about it but if you open them, let us know what you find.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Was wondering on how this actually happened. It looks so good I thought it may be some kind of die alteration instead of a gouge or wear.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
It was initially thought to be a die gouge. It's now believed to be an intentional die alteration. And skillfully done!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
So did the lack of interest for the Dollar coin cause the mint to create something that would grab the coin collectors attention?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Well, that theory is interesting but I don't think so. But who knows, maybe it was. It's the best explanation I've heard! 😂 👍🏻
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Generally the mint doesn't strike coins for circulation in hopes that collectors will pull them from circulation.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Interesting issue... Sure looks like a professional modification.. no indication of an accidental die gouge. Cheers, RickO
It's a well documented variety that has been examined, thanks to @OAKSTAR , by several well known variety specialist in the hobby. Worth looking for.
Thanks @MWallace! This is what makes this hobby enjoyable. Running this sort of thing to ground, learning along the way and sharing the knowledge.
That's a stunning long ray you have there by the way!! A Plus!! 👍🏻 👍🏻
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I have studied these under a microscope. I am convinced that the die was deliberately and carefully tooled to elongate the ray within the Mint. Why, I do not know.
TD
Haven't spotted one yet...I regularly do quite a few small dollars.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
Nice catch and a great informer.
OAKSTAR,
Do you work for the Government?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Yes, the Mint! 😂 🤣
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@CaptHenway is convinced the die was deliberately altered and carefully tooled to elongate the ray within the Mint. I'm not exactly sure of the career job title of the individual who performed this task......An engraver?
Wouldn't there be records, logs or regulations in place to document the modification of a working anvil die?... Or are there just to many functions/moving parts at the mint during production to account and document everything? If this die was carefully and skillfully tooled, wouldn't that process take some time?
I'm just speculating but I can't believe there would be more then one or two guys (probably just one go-to guy) that had the skill, time and opportunity to do this. I'm thinking it would be a very small group of guys that would know exactly "WHO" in the mint performed this task or function.
If Mint Management looked at this coin and sent it to the production guys to look at, there's no doubt in my mind they would say: Oh yeah, this is Bob's or Jim's work! Bob did this, it's quality craftsmanship! It's got his skill set signature all over it!!
So if Treasury or Mint personal are within the sound of my voice and monitoring this forum, could you please forward this to the right person for action? We sure would like to hear from you.
Very respectfully,
OAKSTAR
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I'm wondering if Mr. Menna would know, have any in sight or be curious about this since he engraved the coin. He's currently the Mint's Chief Engraver. I think I'll write him a letter and find out.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Like it@OAKSTAR
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Check it out - resurrecting an old thread but saw this GW Dollar in a Great Collections auction that is the "Elongated Ray" type. It has been slowly but surely going up in price......... https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1772988/2007-P-Presidential-Dollar-George-Washington-Elongated-Ray-Position-B-PCGS-MS-62
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@Steven59, This could be one to watch. Has the potential of being a major sleeper!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
After a close up, now what does this look like? Well placed die gouge or actuall tooling????
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Yes, excellent synopsis! Many thought it was a die gouge. Just like the high/low leaf quarter. You ask 10 different people, you get 10 different explanations.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The fact that the top of the extension is an exact, straight continuation of the top of the ray makes me believe that it it was a deliberate tooling of the die, but I have no idea why this would have been done or by whom.
Nor can I explain the ring-shaped extra "leaves" on the Wisconsin quarters and various other ring-shaped markings on various modern dies. All I know is that they appear to have been done in a U.S. Mint.
The coin up for auction is at $301 with 9 days to go.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1772988/2007-P-Presidential-Dollar-George-Washington-Elongated-Ray-Position-B-PCGS-MS-62
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Amazing - the coin sold for $700!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@OAKSTAR
Sounds reasonable.
The main goals here, (not necessarily this order): Have the coin professionally attributed, have it recognized and graded by all three TPG'ers, maximize the coins exposure to collectors and the community, establish a market value, have it published in the Graysheet with a market value and have it published in the CPG and Redbook.
Our hope is to inspire others to look for this coin, learn where they may have been distributed into circulation and eventually establish an estimated mintage.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
.
One die pair, so starting guess at the mintage is whatever the average die pair produces. If you have several specimens acquired at different times through different sources, then you probably have fairly uniform distribution of die states that exist. If all you have is early die state coins, then chances are the die wasn't used long enough to become late die state, so mintage will be lower.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Fortunately or unfortunately, I can't verify or validate die pairs or early/late die states with these coins... Wish I could. To be honest, that's way above my pay grade... But thanks John.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@ianrussell GreatCollections and his staff did a phenomenal job presenting, promoting and show casting this coin!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I've never heard anything but praise for the job they do.
@joeykoins - I told you years ago Bro. I was trying to help you. You just didn't wanta listed. There's still time left! 🤣 😉
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The bent in this picture seems very exaggerated to me. Not sure if it's the lighting or if it took a hit. I've looked at the ones I have in-hand and I can barely see the bent. it's so slight!
@CaptHenway - How does yours look Tom?
@MWallace - How does your look Mike?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Mine are straight. No Peyronie's Disease.
Here's another picture I took that shows the bottom edge a little more clearly. It looks like the extension of the ray was more or less of uniform thickness, so with the top being straight, the bottom would look like it had a bit of a bend to it.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Please post the original of this picture without the lines. I think they are distracting the eye.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Thank you. That looks like the normal bend in the underside of the ray to me.