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1940S WLH NP Arrived and images posted

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
edited March 11, 2023 9:36AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I am eagerly awaiting the delivery of this 1940S I bought off of ebay.
This was on my long list of walkers but I want to be patient.
This is known as the pancake issue. As you can see in the images it's got the elusive strike with a split finger.
Now I do not have any idea of what the numerical grade will be but I did not think I would find this coin.
What do you guys think of this strike.
It's not necessary to try to figure out the grade because it's an image.
It looks clean and original to me. I asked the seller a few questions and he assured me that the coin matches the images.
BTW if you have a 40S with a nice strike please post them.
It's always nice to see other coins!
I know this board has members with the finest collections.

Comments

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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2023 8:32AM

    Anacs crack out going to NGC

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower ... Nice looking WLH.... Look forward to your pictures when in hand... Cheers, RickO

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,038 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It does seem to have an above average strike but, based on the photos, its surfaces are suspect ... possible cleaning of some sort. Why are you still buying raw coins?

    All glory is fleeting.
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    It does seem to have an above average strike but, based on the photos, its surfaces are suspect ... possible cleaning of some sort. Why are you still buying raw coins?

    Why not? If the price is right. It has a return privilege through eBay. It's virtually zero risk.

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    JBNJBN Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin has great detail for a 40-S. Nothing 'jumps out' as off in the pictures provided.
    The skeptic in me ask why the coin is not already graded.
    I hope it works out for you.
    Even if the half does not straight grade, there is no denying the strike is strong for this issue.
    Nice find.

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    dsessomdsessom Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's always hard to tell from photos, but it looks very clean and has an excellent strike. Do you plan to send it for grading?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBN said:
    The coin has great detail for a 40-S. Nothing 'jumps out' as off in the pictures provided.
    The skeptic in me ask why the coin is not already graded.
    I hope it works out for you.
    Even if the half does not straight grade, there is no denying the strike is strong for this issue.
    Nice find.

    Because 98% of Walkers that are 64 or under are still raw?

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,901 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That coin definitely has a much better strike than is often seen for the issue.

    The lighting in the images is rather poor in that I interpret the images to suggest they are heavily lit from 10:00-1:00 so everything might be a little tough to read. My guess is that once you get it the coin will show separation between the thumb and the rest of the hand, but that there won't be much 3D effect of the hand coming away from the body. Regardless, it's still better than often found. I'm not worried about the little bit of chatter along Ms. Liberty or the off-color as the coin still appears MS to me and the images, as mentioned, need a little work and white balance might be one of the issues. I am also not concerned that it is raw. After all, we are talking about a coin that is about $100-$200 in MS64 and not everyone cares or is knowledgeable about strike.

    Nice pick up.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2023 12:32PM

    Nice strike for the issue. Might be an AU slider.

    Here is my MS 65 OGH:


    I have often thought of upgrading to a MS 66 but WHY? I REALLY like this coin. MANY times, the higher graded coin is NOT always the better coin.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBN said:
    The coin has great detail for a 40-S. Nothing 'jumps out' as off in the pictures provided.
    The skeptic in me ask why the coin is not already graded.
    I hope it works out for you.
    Even if the half does not straight grade, there is no denying the strike is strong for this issue.
    Nice find.

    Because 98% of Walkers that are 64 or under are still raw?

    I wouldn't have thought this but I have been trying to get a nice WLH 36-S certified on EBAY. They go from 1 XF, there was an AU, but believe its now gone. Then there was 1 63, then jumps to 64 an up. Prices go from $59 for the XF to $300+ then to 800+. No middle ground. Nothing in the $200 range certified.

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    privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a beauty.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

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    erscoloerscolo Posts: 571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2023 2:07PM

    One of the more difficult dates to be sure. This one is my slabbed copy:


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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coastaljerseyguy said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBN said:
    The coin has great detail for a 40-S. Nothing 'jumps out' as off in the pictures provided.
    The skeptic in me ask why the coin is not already graded.
    I hope it works out for you.
    Even if the half does not straight grade, there is no denying the strike is strong for this issue.
    Nice find.

    Because 98% of Walkers that are 64 or under are still raw?

    I wouldn't have thought this but I have been trying to get a nice WLH 36-S certified on EBAY. They go from 1 XF, there was an AU, but believe its now gone. Then there was 1 63, then jumps to 64 an up. Prices go from $59 for the XF to $300+ then to 800+. No middle ground. Nothing in the $200 range certified.

    $200 is about the bare minimum in value to be worth certification. And if there's a junk from $ 60 to $300, no one is going to submit unless they are sure it will AU.

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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erscolo said:
    One of the more difficult dates to be sure. This one is my slabbed copy:


    VERY NICE!!

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tough date, I hesitate to say much from photos in a 2X2, but the strike does look strong. My MS66+ CAC

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 10, 2023 6:29PM

    Thank you guys for showing your beautiful coins.
    This is a tough year for sure. After reading Bruce Fox book I have learned a whole lot about this series. I need to read it through a few more time to retain more.
    I'm studying the series.
    The 1940S shows die polish lines that will definitely make it appear as though it has been cleaned.
    Some people collect for numerical grades and want the top pop coins and that's okay. Nothing wrong with that. I have considered a few purchases of 66-67 but I made up my mind that it's not going to be about slapping down some money and calling it done.
    For me I also like the challenge of finding the rare strike like I hope I have here. I'll post images when I get the coin.
    I am now enjoying looking for these coins unslabbed and with good strikes. I will continue to do so at will.
    I have made many significant purchases of slabbed coins in very high grade and someday when I am ready I will post them but for now-
    Happy Collecting!

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    @291fifth I just read your post.
    Can you please tell me why you are asking another collector why "they are still buying raw coins"?

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    @AlanSki said:
    Anacs crack out going to NGC

    On the obverse of your coin the right side looks blurred out. Is this the way the coin looks??

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    AdamLAdamL Posts: 165 ✭✭✭

    @coastaljerseyguy said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBN said:
    The coin has great detail for a 40-S. Nothing 'jumps out' as off in the pictures provided.
    The skeptic in me ask why the coin is not already graded.
    I hope it works out for you.
    Even if the half does not straight grade, there is no denying the strike is strong for this issue.
    Nice find.

    Because 98% of Walkers that are 64 or under are still raw?

    I wouldn't have thought this but I have been trying to get a nice WLH 36-S certified on EBAY. They go from 1 XF, there was an AU, but believe its now gone. Then there was 1 63, then jumps to 64 an up. Prices go from $59 for the XF to $300+ then to 800+. No middle ground. Nothing in the $200 range certified.

    Some of those mid-30's dates with D & S mint marks are really tougher than one would think in higher grades. For me it made the hunt a little more interesting than the 41-47 short set. I enjoyed it though.

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    AdamLAdamL Posts: 165 ✭✭✭

    @Watchtower That coin does look like a very nice strike.
    Here's mine. The photo makes the chatter on the obverse look worse than it is.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    @291fifth I just read your post.
    Can you please tell me why you are asking another collector why "they are still buying raw coins"?

    I can’t speak for @291fifth, but if I had to guess I would say it’s because you made an announcement that you were no longer buying raw coins after you had made a couple mistakes. Either way, there’s nothing wrong with buying raw if you know what you’re doing, but it does carry more risk than a slabbed purchase.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
    Website
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,038 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @Watchtower said:
    @291fifth I just read your post.
    Can you please tell me why you are asking another collector why "they are still buying raw coins"?

    I can’t speak for @291fifth, but if I had to guess I would say it’s because you made an announcement that you were no longer buying raw coins after you had made a couple mistakes. Either way, there’s nothing wrong with buying raw if you know what you’re doing, but it does carry more risk than a slabbed purchase.

    DeplorableDan has nailed it.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:

    @AlanSki said:
    Anacs crack out going to NGC

    On the obverse of your coin the right side looks blurred out. Is this the way the coin looks??

    I did a screenshot of a video because it’s out being graded now.

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 11, 2023 9:37AM

    I understand guys but things change. We learn in time what to watch out for and there is always a return policy. I don't think is necessary or fair to profile anyone as they grow in this hobby. I think we all started somewhere and most of us made mistakes.
    I'd like to continue to post on this forum and keep things friendly.
    I've been working pretty hard at learning to grade WLH as well as learning about the series. It doesn't happen overnight. Vindictive comes to mind with posts like "I thought you weren't buying raw coins anymore"
    It's just unnecessary. It's a hobby and is supposed to be fun. No need for dark clouds.
    Anyway here is the 1940S that I bought raw.

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 11, 2023 9:53AM

    @291fifth said:
    In your new photos the coin looks to be cleaned and possibly even somewhat polished.

    You posted this exactly 1 minute after my post.
    So it seems as though you have been waiting for me to post.
    I believe you have an issue with me and I would like to call you out on this right here and right now.
    Who does this to someone?
    You have 23,000 posts. It's obvious you have been a member here for a very long time.
    What is your objective?
    Have you singled me out as someone you want to pick on or is this a pattern with you?
    Are you stalking me?
    I don't know you and I have no issue with you.
    So let's get this sorted out.
    What's up?
    Edited to correct 13,000 posts to 23,000 posts.

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    @AlanSki said:

    @Watchtower said:

    @AlanSki said:
    Anacs crack out going to NGC

    On the obverse of your coin the right side looks blurred out. Is this the way the coin looks??

    I did a screenshot of a video because it’s out being graded now.

    I hope it comes back with a grade your happy with it looks like a nice coin. All the coins posted are. This is what's enjoyable and really what we might expect from each other.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 10:26AM

    The mint mark also looks a little off, BUT it may just be the image shot through the cellophane.
    Retracted, the new reverse image out of the holder looks like the mm is okay.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    Eldorado9Eldorado9 Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I waited to comment until better pictures were posted. The coin appears to have had some work done to it. Best of luck with the grading on this one.

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,038 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:

    @291fifth said:
    In your new photos the coin looks to be cleaned and possibly even somewhat polished.

    You posted this exactly 1 minute after my post.
    So it seems as though you have been waiting for me to post.
    I believe you have an issue with me and I would like to call you out on this right here and right now.
    Who does this to someone?
    You have 23,000 posts. It's obvious you have been a member here for a very long time.
    What is your objective?
    Have you singled me out as someone you want to pick on or is this a pattern with you?
    Are you stalking me?
    I don't know you and I have no issue with you.
    So let's get this sorted out.
    What's up?
    Edited to correct 13,000 posts to 23,000 posts.

    I'm sorry you don't like my comments. In the future I will not be making any more in regard to your posts.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 11, 2023 10:09AM

    @pcgscacgold said:
    I waited to comment until better pictures were posted. The coin appears to have had some work done to it. Best of luck with the grading on this one.

    Okay maybe. It looks good in my hand. What do you see?
    What kind of work?
    I'll take a closer look.
    I can still return it. Maybe I should.

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    pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All that matters is that you like it.

    When I look at your photo it appears to have dip residue on the obv (chalky look to it). That could be the photos. I just don't see it as Gem BU as described on the flip.

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 11, 2023 10:27AM

    @pcgscacgold said:
    All that matters is that you like it.

    When I look at your photo it appears to have dip residue on the obv (chalky look to it). That could be the photos. I just don't see it as Gem BU as described on the flip.

    Where do you see it?
    I really want to know so that in the future I will know what to look for because I am completely missing it.
    This is important stuff to learn.

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,901 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think you need more light and at better angles for the images to truly be interpreted properly. My first reaction to the obverse was that it might be MS, but the image appeared pixelated. The reverse image appears to show a dull coin, like something that could have been cleaned, but the lighting is worse on that side. Overall, you might have a sparkling near-gem, might have a dipped AU or might have a slightly cleaned coin.

    I wish I could give you more of a definitive opinion. Good luck!

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,936 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 10:33AM

    @Watchtower said:

    @pcgscacgold said:
    I waited to comment until better pictures were posted. The coin appears to have had some work done to it. Best of luck with the grading on this one.

    Okay maybe. It looks good in my hand. What do you see?
    What kind of work?
    I'll take a closer look.
    I can still return it. Maybe I should.

    The right obv field looks odd in your photos, maybe just the lighting but give that area a good look and different angles.

    Edited to add: In regard to what 291fifth said, if you look at the photo of the obv in the center of the coin from the skirt below the hand to close to the head that area seems very bright and reflective, almost polished. That could be just the lighting but I can see what I believe he was thinking.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    Fair enough. Tom when you speak I listen. I'll try to take better images. I know you have a good heart and I will respond. I'll see what I can do.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These were the primary areas of concern, for me.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
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    pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree @DeplorableDan
    That upper left area looks like residue to me. Even by the L and I on the obv but again that could be lighting.

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    TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 10:51AM

    I agree that the coin looks to be cleaned and/or polished. Most of us do not have a dog in the fight, so to speak, and are only providing an honest opinion based upon what we see from a post. You should invite, rather than criticize, comments like this.

    Most of us have made a lot of buying mistakes, have learned from the bad experiences and are genuinely trying to help. Sometimes, the opinions appear harsh, but they are intended to be instructive. The only other way I know to gain insight is to work with an experienced numismatist or to take a class offered by the ANA. I have done both many times and for many years, and I am much more knowledgeable for it.

    I'll close by saying that this reminds me of a harsh lesson I learned from a very experienced early type dealer after I purchased a scarce PCGS MS-63 slabbed coin with a rather obvious problem that I missed, and subsequently was trying to get out of for no net loss. He said that coin reminds me of the saying "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" I laughed and laughed and thanked him for the comment. It's a learning process!

    Tom

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    @TomB
    Here are a couple more I took using the 50MP on my phone. It's tough to get good shots with this but I value your opinion.

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    How's the strike?

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    $7000 coin-


    $140 coin-


    I like the strike. That's what's important to me.
    I'm a collector not an investor.
    I'll buy one that matches my set in time. I
    I have a pretty good collection of slabbed WLH going and I am not posting my graded coins yet. It's not complete. In the meantime I am trying to enjoy the challenge of finding coins that can be exceptional for reasons other than a high grade.
    Is coin collecting really about finding flaws in each other's coins?

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 12:08PM

    @Watchtower said:
    Is coin collecting really about finding flaws in each other's coins?

    No. This may sound abrasive, but when you post an image of a coin here you are opening yourself up to opinions. This is a forum, not a diary. You've already discouraged a few members from even wanting to comment on your posts, because when someone opines or tries to point out something you may have missed, you've been taking it as a personal attack. A lot of us are mostly objective, and we call it how we see it no matter who posts the coin. People are just trying to help educate by sharing their experience with you (for free), and help save you (and other readers) from making costly mistakes. If you enjoy the coin and you're happy with your purchase than just ignore it, but if you walked that coin into a LCS you wouldn't get offered anywhere close to $140, regardless of how good the strike is. You could have bought a graded P64 for that price, and cracked it out of the plastic if you wanted it to be raw.

    Edited for grammar

    Founder- Peak Rarities
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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,392 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I waited to comment until additional pictures had been posted, and the coin looks polished to me. Maybe it’s just the pictures, but that’s all we have to go by.

    I don’t think anyone has been “vindictive”/mean or has tried to do anything other than help you. I hope you enjoy your collecting, but you’re not nearly as far along in being able to assess coins as you think you are. If you don’t want me to comment in the future, just say the word.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    Mark it's always good to hear from you. I have nothing but respect for you. There are several people I like to hear from and you most certainly are at the top of that list.
    The coin does look a bit shiney and I am not debating about its originality.
    Originally I felt I did good locating a coin from this series with a good strike. That is all.
    It looks decent in my hand and yes it also looks suspect.
    My joy in buying this coin was about its strike.
    I just get a little vexed when it becomes about numbers and slabs. That is all. It is always said buy the coin not the holder.
    I bought this coin for its strike that was all. I bought it based on what I have learned. Not based upon grading skills. That takes a very long time and I am defensless in that department.
    It's boring old winter here in New England and finding some fun in collecting coins is enjoyable.

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