PSA JUST STRUCK OUT WITH ME

zardoz51 · July 17, 2002 2:17AM

As you are all well aware, I am one of the most vocal cheerleaders for PSA and have defended them with ardent fervor.

Well ol' zardoz not only wheels and deals in cards, but also is a serious collector. Well upon reaching the 75% completion in my71 Topps baseball, and my second set of 70 Kelloggs, I contacted PSA in order to get my 5 free gradings for each set.

WRONG! Read the fine print zardoz!

The response to my request:

Paul,

I think there may be a misunderstanding. When I checked on the two sets you listed below, I found that they were registered well beyond July 11th (5 days ago). The 1971 Topps set was registered in December, 2001 and the 1970 Kellogg's set was registered in June, 2002. The free grading is for new sets that are 75% complete in which the owner has contacted us within five days of registration.

Have you registered any new sets within the last 5 days that would qualify?

BJ Searls
Manager Set Registry Support
Collectors Universe
512.496.5018

another PSA email:

Paul,

Yes, you have misunderstood. The set must be (or reach) 75% within 5 days of registering. It is incentive to get new collections registered. The incentive for ongoing collections (like yours) is our set registry specials. BTW, the next special is for 60s, 70s, and 80s. It will start 8/1.

BJ

My response:

Thanks BJ

You are indeed correct having re-read the news brief on the registry page. Not much of an incentive really is it? With the 1971 Topps set, I'm supposed to accumulate over 500 graded cards before even putting the set on the registry? Why bother?

Sorry to have wasted your time

Paul

The response:

You didn't waste my time. Actually, many people hold off registering their sets until they have a substantial number of cards. There are really two philosophies... those who like to see their sets build as they compete with others and those who like to come in with a bang. Nothing's wrong with either method. It's just a different approach. Personally, I would find it much more fun to register with one or two cards and watch the set build. But that's just me.

My muffled response as I grit my teeth.

BJ

That's how I feel. I started out registering 2 or 3 cards and built my set. I have been getting 600 cards per month graded for the past two months and 100's per month. prior to that. Nothing personal, but the offer is pretty worthless. A collector with a 50 card set can get them graded all at once register them, and presto they qualify!

Five or ten free gradings really doesn't mean much, a few bucks, but it would be a nice gesture on PSA's part to recognize those folks who have busted their buns putting a large set together. I don't believe that this "within 5 days of initial registration" applied when it was at 90% completion but at this point, it is moot.

Regards

Paul

A response:

Yes, the rule was the same. It has always been 5 days. We only changed the percentage requirement. In many ways, I agree with you. However, it's a tough market, PSA is a public company, and we have shareholders to report to. I'm hoping that as our stock price improves, we will be able to offer more incentive to our members. You guys certainly deserve it, in my opinion.

My last missive:

A small price for good PR, let's be honest, cost is minimal in light of the amount to be spent in getting to the 75%.

there is a general misconception that once one reaches the 75%, one qualifies for this bonus.

Thanks Anyway

paul

There you have it! My saga for the day. Was anyone on the board aware of this fine print in this generous offer? How many of you are holding off registering your sets until you get to the 75+% completion to get this fabulous bonus?

A pretty worthless deal if you ask me.

Am I alone in my feelings or am I just off-base here?

aconte · July 17, 2002 2:24AM

z,

I believe this was discussed on the board a few weeks back for a short time. I agree with you.
I wonder if I delelte my set and re enter it later if that would be acceptable for the free grades.
Obviously it makes sense to wait to post your cards on the registry if you want to pick up this
small incentive. However, this does go against those who slowly work on sets and send cards
in here and there. For them there is no incentive.

aconte

theBobs · July 17, 2002 2:30AM

<< The free grading is for new sets that are 75% complete in which the owner has contacted us within five days of registration. >>

<< It is incentive to get new collections registered. The incentive for ongoing collections (like yours) is our set registry specials. >>

I generally try to be witty and clever (I did say "try"). But this is pretty amazing. The "specials" are open to anyone, regardless of set %s. But the 75% thing isn't? Not only that, but I need a lawyer to file the correct papers by the correct time tables?

This needs to be addressed. I collect a set of 596 cards. If I want 5 free gradings, I will need to delist 450 cards and then register the set? What an incentive?!?!?!

PSA, can you hear me now? Can you hear me now?

Brian

uniship · July 17, 2002 2:35AM

Oh, you have shareholders to answer to? ALL THE MORE REASON TO GIVE HIM THE FRICKEN 10 FREE GRADES!!! What terrible business PSA is demonstrating. Combine examples like this with letting SMR subsrciptions just lapse without a renewal notice, and it is a darn wonder how PSA became the leader in the industry.

Forward this to the CEO of CU, and tell him how they are losing business with these horrible business examples. If I were in charge, I would want to know immediately, and we would have a big staff meeting on the spot.

Business 101: PUT THE CUSTOMER FIRST (and perhaps then your stock would not hover around 88 cents all the time).

mcastaldi · July 17, 2002 2:39AM

In light of this, here's the scenerio you're going to see -

-- A collector registers 1 or 2 cards simply to qualify for the Registry Special. These will likely be lower-grade cards and not part of the "real set". Then. . .the "real set" will be build privately and remain unregistered for a significant period of time until one qualifys for the gradings Paul mentions.

Now. . .I will argue doing this violates the spirit of the Registry - but no more so than does the current PSA policy.

BJ mentions that the Registry Specials are designed to reward the ongoing collections. If that were wholly true, then the Set Registry Specials would only be available for sets that meet a minimum completion percentage. So long as you can register only one single card and still take part in the special, this doesn't hold water in my book.

C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters.
This is silly and downright petty on your part.

In light of the current policy, why should I register more than one or two cards until I have 75%+ completion?

Mike

theBobs · July 17, 2002 2:43AM

PSA, please read this again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

Vargha · July 17, 2002 2:45AM

Bad PR move on PSA's part . . . it's better to not offer anything whatsoever. The cost of the five free gradings is minimal, especially when one considers that the collector pays for the postage both ways, is likely to include paid gradings with it and 5 free out of 300-700 cards in a set is a fly speck.

rbeaton · July 17, 2002 2:48AM

Sorry to hear about this Paul. This whole thing is ridiculous. It's a trivial amount of money to PSA to just give out the free gradings. It's horrible PR the way it stands. I think PSA would have been better off to not even make the offer to begin with.

I guess I should delete the ~150 cards I have in my 1970 set and keep them quiet until I get to 75% (of 720 total) then I can get 5 free.

Here's an idea to mess with the system: Collect the 1970 Rold Gold set (all of 15 cards), get 12 graded cards, add them to the registry, then get the 5 free gradings. I bet they would find some loophole in this as well.

Robert

mcastaldi · July 17, 2002 3:00AM

Additional comments -

To illuminate what Vargha was getting at. . .5 vintage gradings at regular price totals $50. Does PSA honestly feel they have not gotten $50 worth of free advertising, promotion and evangelism from each and every registered set that has reached the 75% completion mark? For the smallest set I'm building, 5 gradings represents only 0.76% of the set. For half of the sets I'm building the figure is even smaller.

As for the Set Registry Specials vis-a-vis the "serious set builder" (more than 50% complete and/or multiple sets being actively pursued). . .I would argue the people who are serious about building their sets are not sitting around waiting for the next {Insert Your Decade Here} Registry Special to come around. So to say that this is their sole reward seems shallow and empty to me.

BigKidAtHeart · July 17, 2002 3:02AM

or better yet...
have everyone here delete ALL their Sets

and wait a few days, REregister them & apply for 5 free gradings PER SET!

then THEIR loophole would be plugged!

LJB17 · July 17, 2002 3:03AM

Possible loophole. Do the 5 free gradings have to be from the set that was registered at 75%?

Here is a loophole for the collector. If you do what was suggested with the 1970 Rold Gold set, then delist them and let another person list the 12 cards (as if they were sold.) Then that individual would be eligible for the 5 free gradings. Let's just all pass the same 12 cards around and each pick up 5 free gradings.

I do understand that 5 gradings is not a significant amount and there is a more pressing problem that you have listed above, but you have to fight fire with fire.

Luke

theBobs · July 17, 2002 3:06AM

PSA, please read this again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

zardoz51 · July 17, 2002 3:12AM

As things appear to be so tight at PSA with the "Thank you's" and "Well Done's" in their reward department, and have enough loopholes to satisfy the most an al retentive attorney.

I have adopted the "Zardoz Well Done Prize"

The next collector to reach 75% completion in a set of 500 + cards and let's me know,

I'll send you a check for $30 to get 5 gradings in the next special.

Just send me an email. I don't care when you started your set. It's just my way of saying well done from one collector to another. The reward is limited to the first collector as I am not a multi million dollar publicly traded company, but someone who understands what you have gone through to get to that point.

waitilltheytrytosell · July 17, 2002 3:27AM

I never knew about the 5 day catch. I was always under the impression that once you hit 75% you would get the free submissions. It's a rather sneaky way out of something that costs them virtually nothing. The set registry collectors aren't going through the 75% effort just to steal those free submissions and run away. It's not much, but it is a token gesture from PSA for rewarding your contribution to the overall success of the registry. The only thing I see that they should do is not allow it for small sets like a Rold Gold and maybe even 64 Giants for that matter.

Zardoz - Didn't they raise this recently from your favorite "3 Free Submissions!!!!!" to the now 5 Free Submissions. With the 75% one shot within 5 days rule, they might as wll make it 100 free submissions.

Vargha · July 17, 2002 3:28AM

BTW Paul, just to rub a little salt in your wound . . . I submitted for my free gradings well after my set was registered and PSA gave them to me. I just wrote in "$0" for the price and wrote in "Set Registry Special" on the submission form. They graded them without saying a word.

(Edited for typo.)

thegemmintman · July 17, 2002 3:36AM

Zardoz, you know I think this stinks. I had no idea about the five day rule. I always thought I had some free submissions in my pocket, but I guess I don't.

qualitycards · July 17, 2002 3:41AM

I saw carlos' thread regarding the 5 free grades which were initially for sets at 90%, then he said they dropped it to 75% I was already to Email them about my 1960 Fleer All Time Greats set (currently at 89.87%) and then my HOF set at 74%. I too would have been pis*ed at the response that ZARDOZ got. PSA has graded what, over 5 million cards, and how many of these 5 free certif's have been rewarded, 3, 6, 10? Once I read the thread the other day, my 1st thought was that PSA should contact the collector who has the set once it reaches 75%, not the other way around. They shoulda thought this through a wee bit more. And LUKE your plan about passing the 12 card Rold Gold set around wouldn't work too well. Since the free certificates must be utilized to help complete or upgrade the same set. So all of the participants better have a stash of Rold Golds to utilize the free grades...jay

Basilone · July 17, 2002 3:48AM

I guess PSA answered the questions I raised back on July 11th...not good!

<< Do you get the free gradings by reaching the 75% plateau and then contacting them within 5 days. OR Do you get the free gradings by registering a "new set" that is 75% PSA complete already then contacting them withing 5 days. For those who really, really want the 5 free subs...would that not hold back people from registering their "new sets" until they become 75% complete? >>

What good is the registry for PSA if people who really want free subs wait till they get to 75% to submit...heck for many sets thats YEARS! Also...they are just asking people to delete their sets...then re-register a couple of weeks later....why dont they save everyone the trouble and make things right.

Do they not realize the THOUSANDS of dollars spent by the collector to get to 75% as it is?

John

theBobs · July 17, 2002 3:55AM

PSA, please read this again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

JMAC · July 17, 2002 3:57AM

Hey Paul,

Great information! Sorry you had to go through that! The "fine print" can be confusing!!! Hey, nothing is perfect...but the alternative could be worse. Beckett, SGC, CSA, or heaven forbid PRO!!!! (those guys need to be driven out of business, once of for all!) Even the new Global Authenticator is not all it's cracked up to be! (Knock Knock... Who's there? Steve Rocci. Steve Rocci who? EXACTLY!!!) I learned that that the hard way!!! I do realize that PSA is trying very hard to accommodate ALL collectors and I guess sometimes flaws appear in the system. Just keep in mind...PSA will make adjustments as time goes by to make things work for all collectors. Let's face it...it's difficult getting 75% complete on any set. I think PSA is trying to motivate those collectors who are "unregistered" to get in the game. Hey, it's good for their business. They did lower the percentage requirement from 90% to 75%, and are offering more grading specials...I know I took full advantage of the first 70s and 60s specials!!!

Let's face it...we all win if this baby keeps growing!!! So, let's not be too hard on these guys (ok, rip 'em when they deserve it!)...they are trying very hard to run a business AND make us hard-core collectors happy. I am fortunate enough to work on the same street as PSA, so we are neighbors! I love being able to attend the PSA Saturdays! Charlie and Joe have bent over backwards to help me when I ask, and have been first-class all the way!

Sad collector story for a recent PSA Saturday. A collector came in with hundreds of seemingly nice 1971 Topps Baseball cards...unfortunately, it was pointed out to him at the table that most of the cards black borders had been "recolored" and would not qualify to be holdered. Now, most other grading companies would have taken the mans money, graded and rejected them, and sent them back to him ungraded...after cashing his check! PSA saved the guy thousands in grading by NOT accepting them. That is one of the benefits of PSA...honesty! We all win!

Hang in there Paul and thanks for the kind words before!!! You have made an unbelievably generously offer...keep us posted if anyone takes you up on it!!!

John

P.S. PRO must DIE!!!! Please be careful, I've been burned and I want to let the rest of you know that. They will grade and encapsulate altered cards.

aro13 · July 17, 2002 4:00AM

I am dissapointed they did not give Zardoz the free grading and I agree with him that the offer is pretty worthless. However, the set registry special is a great deal and they are coming up with more ideas as they go along. Perhaps this misunderstanding and difficulty in getting free grades will cause them to change the rules and make free grading more accessible to the very few that have over 75% or 90% completion.

qualitycards · July 17, 2002 4:02AM

ZARDOZ has offered to pony up $30.00 (equivilent to 5 grades during their special) to the 1st who contacts him that has a true large set and has reached the 75% plateau. When the 2nd person contacts him, I will send that person a $30.00 check. Perhaps, if enough of us do this, PSA will change the criteria to reward its loyal supporters. Instead of the loyal supporters shelling out their money for this PSA promotional campaign...jay

JH · July 17, 2002 4:36AM

I agree with Jay... but the first $30 prize should go to Zardoz for his 75% accomplishment on the 71 Topps registry.....

Zardoz - PM me your address and I'll start this off with a $30 award to you for your accomplishment..... Jim

Then we can keep this effort going as a group....

boggs301012 · July 17, 2002 4:41AM

psa1965topps...What I couldnt hear you. All I heard was Pauls teeth grinding.

PSA ......Ball
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DROP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sixdart · July 17, 2002 5:10AM

I have not viewed the fine print.

However, it appeared that the incentive was to encourage the PSA registry owner to continue submitting raw cards to PSA to finish their set. Hence, the increased profitability to PSA. That was my impression of the offer. The number of cards within a set should be an issue as well, to obtain 75% - is there any consideration for that factor?

This does not promote individuals to participate, but rather to wait and then register their sets to gain the free submissions. PSA would benefit more by people trying to target the 75% set ratio through PSA submission. If PSA's intention is to attract non-PSA registry set builders, the percentage should be lower (larger sets as the standard) to encourage listings with said offer.

acowa · July 17, 2002 5:20AM

Paul,

I had the same thing happen with my 1967 set...only I thought it was 5 free after 90%. I called PSA and asked Charlie to look into it and then decided to just drop it.

It's still hard for me to be the man when you're the man. Congrats on getting closer to the 100% mark.

Jay, I will pony up $30 for the third person.

Regards,

Alan

zardoz51 · July 17, 2002 5:31AM

It is indeed sad when the collectors must exercise common sense and basic marketing skills to promote the registry.

I appreciate, and thank you for the offer JH, but in the spirit of this grass-roots movement, I must decline and place your offer into third place behind Jay.

So far we have

1. Zardoz

2. Quality Cards

3. JH

4. Acowa

I thank all of you for your spirit and GENUINE support for the collectors in the registry.

1954 · July 17, 2002 5:39AM

I am really disappointed in PSA as well. I have sent in 5000 cards since Feb. 21, 2002. All five of the submissions sent in have been completed late and all I have gotten was excuses. I don't understand PSA right now, and if you are listening PSA why don't you tell the "shareholders" why you can't fullfill an agreement? I have never asked for COMPENSATION for their lax attitude and breech of contract, and they are too prideful to offer up a comp. The way you handle it is not do business with them again. Forget about the five free grades for the set registry guys, this was all a way to get us to send them $30,000 to grade $.50 cards. I have been a nice guy for too long.
As for the five free grades and the guy making the 1971 Topps baseball graded set. So BJ and PSA, do you really know how long it take to input 450-500 cards on the set registry? Hell that takes five days right there. Secondly, it then takes two or three business days just to get back the results. What big deal is it to PSA to give out 5 free comps to someone who spends thousands of dollars trying to make a 700 card set? Burning your bridge is a great way to please your shareholders PSA.

L/1954

theBobs · July 17, 2002 5:40AM

I like the ball drop Boggs... I don't believe this thread is going away...

PSA, please read this again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

and again:

<< C'Mon PSA. . .you're using an insignificant loophole to keep from rewarding your most ardent collectors and supporters. >>

PhilliePhanatic · July 17, 2002 5:51AM

I also think think that their fine print is a bit too fine.

The last thing that they should do is turn people off of their set registry. It is basically driving the entire commons market.

NickM · July 17, 2002 5:53AM

How many people who have unregistered sets at around 75% completion even read the Set Registry News? The website is read by people who already register their sets - normally on an ongoing basis as they collect them. PSA is making an offer - to the people who are least likely to hear about it!

Nick

BJ · July 17, 2002 6:01AM

Let's set the record straight.

The only part of the free grading benefit that has changed is the fact that now the completion requirement is 75% as opposed to 90%.

So because you haven't read the "fine print" as you say, that gives you reason to bash PSA on these boards? Apparently so. I have to say, I'm very disappointed in what I'm reading in this forum.

I want to remind you that the PSA Set Registry is a service that is offered FREE to all of you. But what some of you fail to understand is that it is not free for PSA to offer this service to you. Far from it. There are two full time and one part-time employee dedicated to the registry. There is considerable amount of time spent programming the registry. Programmers are not cheap. There are marketing expenses. Marketing is not cheap. There's Joe Orlando, Evan Thompson and others in customer service who dedicate time to the registry. The bottom line is that PSA is not a non-profit company. And to those recognize the fact that we are trying to run a business, thank you.

The Set Registry is only a year old and in that time you have seen many changes and improvements as a result of your constructive feedback. I challenge any one of you to disagree with that. There are three people who set policy in the Set Registry - Joe Orlando, VP PSA - Rick Montgomery, Pres. Grading Services Operations, and myself, and what you are not giving us credit for is listening. The discussion about the free grading issue has been on the table, but because we are trying to run a profitable business so we can continue to offer you fine services like the set registry, we cannot give you more without taking away in other areas... at least not in this economic climate. So it takes time to figure out what to do. A change in benefits is simply not the slam dunk you think it should be.

I have re-read my emails to you, Paul, and don't think I was in anyway being disrespectful in my responses to you. As a matter of fact, in many ways I agree with you. Your sarcasm truly surprises me, so I apologize if I offended you in any way.

And to Eric, who hit and ran on my voice mail without even leaving me his phone number so that I could respond, I say anytime you want to have a constructive "conversation" I'm available.

And to everyone else who feels that somehow you have been cheated, please know that we will do our best to make you all happy while at the same time not sending our expenses through the roof. Please, just be patient with us. I think if you look at our track record, you'll see that we always pull through.

If you have any constructive feedback, I'd love to hear from you. Please email me directly.

Thank you.

rw2win · July 17, 2002 6:11AM

<< The bottom line is that PSA is not a non-profit company. And to those recognize the fact that we are trying to run a business, thank you. >>

I would have an eaiser time with this statement if you had not let my subscription run out with out even asking me if I wanted to renew. I am not alone.

PSA Subscription

BJ · July 17, 2002 6:13AM

Your subscription to what? The Set Registry has no subscriptions. Email me and let me know what you are referring to and I'll put you in touch with the right people in customer service.

Vargha · July 17, 2002 6:13AM

I can't speak for any others, but my only discussion about this issue is posted here on this forum. I will reiterate that I think that it is a bad PR move and a short-term money "plus" yet a long-term money "loser" of a decision.

Additionally, I truly do appreciate the efforts put forth in the Registry. That being said, however, especially in light of today's corporate economic environment, there is no way that CU would have invested the time, money and manpower into the effort unless it was viewed as a long-term benefit to the bottom line. While PSA (and your) efforts have been both responsive and excellent as a whole, they are by no means altruistic. When it all shakes out, if it were not perceived as a money-maker for PSA, it would no longer receive the attention that it does.

SKINSFAN · July 17, 2002 6:15AM

paul check this out what will psa do here i to wrote them quote(dear psa i was just wondering since my 66 topps football set is now over 75% do i get 5 free grades? next day psa writes back quote YES ,to receive your 5 free gradings,just submit them on a regular invoice. write down on your invoice that you are taking advantage of the set registry special,also write down the name of your set that the free gradings pertain to thank you gayle kean collectors universe. end quote. well my set as yours has been up some time but i have 5 cards i will be sending out today that i have attached a copy of the email from gail that pertains to the free grades . NOW WILL PSA HONOR THIS? I will be happy to forward a copy of the email to anyone who wants it. gl guys i know if they bulk at the free grades, well you know

Basilone · July 17, 2002 6:21AM

<< The only part of the free grading benefit that has changed is the fact that now the completion requirement is 75% as opposed to 90%. >>

From what BJ just said...if you achieve 75% completion...you get the free grading benefit. If the statement is correct and accurate, then Zardoz should get 5 free gradings.

Period...End of Story

mcastaldi · July 17, 2002 6:23AM

BJ> I do have some specific questions.

1) With the way the policy is currently written, doesn't this enourage people to NOT list their sets and simply not participate until reaching 75%?
2) It seems to me that PSA's intent is to drive the participants of the set registry to make a choice - either the Set Registry Grading Special(s) OR the 5 free gradings for the set (at least until 75% is reached). Is this the intent? Because to qualify for one (listing cards in your set), is to forego the other (5 free gradings). The reverse is largely true - if you don't list any cards you don't get the Registry Specials until after you've reached 75% and listed your set.
3) Is there a way PSA can make both promotions/offers available without making them an either/or proposition?

I think another issue regarding the policy seems to be one of selective enforcement. Vargha alluded to this earlier, but wasn't given a whole lot of attention. His experience was that he "just sent in his free submissions" and they were handled without incident. This was my experience as well - even though I registered my set the day it was listed in the Registry. I know several other set builders with the same experience. Why does it seem only now that PSA wishes to enforce the language of the policy?

Mike

Vargha · July 17, 2002 6:23AM

skinsfan -- per my earlier post, that is exactly what I did and they were graded without question or charge (except postage and insurance). My submissions were well past the 5 day mark.

PhilliePhanatic · July 17, 2002 6:35AM

<< I want to remind you that the PSA Set Registry is a service that is offered FREE to all of you. But what some of you fail to understand is that it is not free for PSA to offer this service to you. Far from it. >>

Don't make it sound like you offer the set registry out of the good of your hearts. It is a great marketing ploy aimed directly at the egos of competing collectors in order to get them to grade all of the commons within the sets that they grade as opposed to just the stars of cards listed in the SMR.

If its benefits did not outweigh the costs to you then it would eventually be stopped. It is just basic business sense.

You never get something for nothing.

zardoz51 · July 17, 2002 6:37AM

BJ

At no time did I state that you were being disrespectful in your correspondence with me. I stated what had transpired and that I had failed to read the fine print and had accepted the result of my request without argument.

We are indeed aware that the PSA Registry service is free of charge to list our cards and we thank you for the opportunity to do so. We sincerely hope that PSA is aware of the many thousands we spend with their company in order to avail ourselves of this privilege, monies that we would probably not have spent on gradings of commons to add or upgrade our listed sets. In the past six months, I have probably spent $7000 grading 1971 cards to get to the point that I am at.

As for my being "sarcastic", I am genuinely sorry that you feel that I'm bashing PSA. My track record on this board will prove otherwise, to the point where I have been accused of being an ostrich with my head buried in the sand.

NickM · July 17, 2002 6:37AM

BJ - the Set Registry costs PSA to operate, and collectors do not pay extra for it, but the Set Registry is part of PSA's attempt to build a competitive advantage over other grading companies. How much profit has PSA made off submissions of commons (especially during the Set Registry Specials) that would not have been submitted at all but for the fact that the presence of the Set Registry convinced a collector to get not just the high-value cards, but the entire set in graded form?
For several reasons, setting up the offer so that the set must be registered all at once upon reaching the completion percentage threshold is a poor business decision. In addition to the intended targets being people unlikely to hear about the offer because they likely are not reading the PSA website, this is discouraging people from entering sets into the PSA Set Registry at all. The volume of sets on the registry contributes to its usefulness and importance to collectors. A prime example is Frank Bakka's recent posts on population rarities in 1972 Topps. Frank used the Registry to determine who owned many of the individual cards that were extremely low population. Because these sets are on the Registry, he (and anyone else willing to take the time to compare the Population Report with the Registry) can learn that every PSA 8 and/or 9 example of certain cards is accounted for in registered sets and likely off the market, so that if he wishes to own one, waiting for it to come up for sale is not helpful and to submit one (or more) himself of that card. If you give an incentive to active set collectors NOT to register their partial sets, you make people unable to find out that they need to submit certain cards themselves.
The time factor involved in registering 75% of a major set will also discourage people from using the Registry. A collector who has 50 Topps cards from a 600 to 800 card set and who plans to complete the whole set would likely take a significant amount of time to register those cards. Then, as they add to the set, further upgrades will be much smaller and go much quicker. Eventually, they will reach 75% completion without having to devote any large blocks of time to registering cards. This plan would require them to hold all the cards until having 450 to 600 at one time ready to register. At that point in time, the collector would need to take several hours to properly register the set. Suddenly the 5 free gradings just doesn't look worth it, and the set may never get registered.
You can also expect to see a proliferation of subset requests for the Set Registry due to an offer of this sort. "Legendary teams" registries such as the 1961 Yankees, 1963 Dodgers, etc. are only of about 30 or so cards - 25 or less in many cases. A set collector can break up his full yearly set into piecemeal team sets and not put those up separately on the Registry until each listed team is at 75% (even though his full set may no longer be eligible to receive the 5 free gradings when it hits 75%).
Also, a business decision that has the appearance of stiffing PSA's most loyal customers (as this one does) is often met by customer actions aimed at showing displeasure. The participants on this thread are already searching for loopholes. From PSA's perspective, that is never a good thing.

Nick

BJ · July 17, 2002 6:40AM

Skinsfan,

Of course, if someone in customer service forgot to check when your set was loaded and you received an email saying you had the 5 free gradings, we will honor the 5 free gradings. Our fault, not yours.

The free grading benefit reads as such on the website:

Free Grading. We recognize that not every card in every important collection has been graded by PSA. In order to encourage participation in the PSA Set Registry program we are offering five free grading submissions for anyone who would like to register a new set. To qualify, new sets must be at least 75% complete when listed for the first time, PSA graded. After validating your new set, you must contact customer service within five (5) days in order to take advantage of this free offer. These free submissions are for cards within your new set that are either "raw" or graded by another grading service that you would like to "crossover." (Please note, cards must be cracked out of other grading service holders before submission.) Your five free submissions for each set need to be submitted at one time.

Mike - there are two benefits. One is to encourage people to register collections. The other is to offer grading specials to registrants who are building collections.

And yes, it appears that our customer service department is not very well versed in what the exact terms of the benefits are as some people have benefited inappropriately. Probably one of the reasons we are having this problem. That will soon be corrected.

Paul - of course the set registry is a long term marketing tool which is very successful. All I'm saying is that all things at PSA are being managed with the current economic conditions in mind. It costs significant money to run the registry. I can promise you that in the end we will find a way to make as many members happy as we can, without jeopardizing our stability.

SKINSFAN · July 17, 2002 6:44AM

thank you bj .i stapled the email to my invoice just in case

Basilone · July 17, 2002 6:48AM

After someone spends $2k, $5k, $10k, $20k, or $100+k on their set...the $30.00 retail grading cost is not the point for most of us...its the principle of "brand loyalty" that we are concerned about...such a loyalty that should be celebrated at 75% with no stipulations or fine print.

John

Vargha · July 17, 2002 6:49AM

And yes, it appears that our customer service department is not very well versed in what the exact terms of the benefits are as some people have benefited inappropriately. Probably one of the reasons we are having this problem. That will soon be corrected.

I have a feeling that this is probably not the response that people were looking for.

motocrosser · July 17, 2002 6:52AM

theBobs · July 17, 2002 6:53AM

<< Mike - there are two benefits. One is to encourage people to register collections. The other is to offer grading specials to registrants who are building collections. >>

I know a collector with at least 300+ 1965 PSA 9s. He hasn't registered his set yet. I have tried to talk him into registering his set. Now that I understand the rules, my guidance would be to NOT register the set until he gets to 75%.

End results: A killer set with a GPA of at least 8.75 doesn't get registered until 75% is attained. Who wins under this scenario?

All of this turmoil would go away if there were no free gradings offered.

Whatever goodwill PSA gains by offering 5 free gradings is canceled by motivating sets to NOT be registered and alienating those that have been with the registry the longest...

Kurt · July 17, 2002 6:56AM

Very disappointing.

theBobs · July 17, 2002 6:58AM

<< In the past six months, I have probably spent $7000 grading 1971 cards to get to the point that I am at. >>

PSA has upset someone that is spending $1000+ a month on gradings over 5 free gradings? Thats like $30!

<< And yes, it appears that our customer service department is not very well versed in what the exact terms of the benefits are as some people have benefited inappropriately. Probably one of the reasons we are having this problem. That will soon be corrected. >>

Goodness me, I hope no one else benefits inappropriately. This started as a minor issue that could have been corrected with a simple statement. It now appears to have escalated. Yep, save that $30.00 even if it costs us $1000.00+ a month. Makes alot of sense.

These are PSA's greatest advocates (set builders, active submitters and collectors), too bad they are benefiting inappropriately! Better stop that...

brucemo · July 17, 2002 7:00AM

The "fine print" does say, "To qualify, new sets must be at least 75% complete when listed for the first time, PSA graded." So yes, if you submit your set when you have 400 of the 800 cards graded, then work your way through the next 200, you get zero free gradings, as opposed to the five you would have gotten if you'd waited until you had 600 cards done.

BJ, with due respect, you are crazy. It costs money to run a business, yes. But isn't it obvious that the set registry, and the set registry specials, are generating a huge number of submissions?

That anyone would be quibbling about $35 worth of free grading seems silly to me, under these circumstances. He's reached 75% on a set with 700 cards. He did it incrementally rather than entering it all in one big wad, but that shouldn't matter. As "1954" has said, it would take a long time to simply enter all those certs.

You would have given him the gradings if he'd have saved up the certs rather than entering them over time. That this should make a difference is weird and very un-PSA-like these days.

I mean, think about it. The guy is 75% compete on a 700-card set. That's almost 175 more submissions coming, from somewhere. That's at least $1225 at bulk rate. You are going to make the guy grumpy over $35 when he's considering whether or not to give you $1225?

bruce

PSA JUST STRUCK OUT WITH ME

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