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New rules for MLB 2023

MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

Interesting graphic about 49 pitchers who currently don't meet the new 20 second rule.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-mlbs-new-rules-could-change-baseball-in-2023/

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Comments

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been asking for a pitch clock for a while since the MLB and umpires have not been able to get the pitchers to THROW THE DAMN BALL.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:
    I've been asking for a pitch clock for a while since the MLB and umpires have not been able to get the pitchers to THROW THE DAMN BALL.

    I agree 100%! And stop throwing over to first so much (that's being addressed as well).
    It seems the rule changes had a 20 minute or so effect on MiLB least year. That would help MLB immensely.

    I do wonder who the 2 pitchers are on that chart who average less than 7 seconds to deliver the ball :-)

    Daniel
  • Alfonz24Alfonz24 Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So, with the 2 pickoff attempts lead to more Stolen Bases? If a record is broken, will there need to be an astros (I mean and asterisk)?

    #LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At some point, mainly through advanced statistical data encouraging it, the emphasis with hitting went away from contact and moving guys along, getting in base to simply hitting homers or striking out. And with this change has come a generation of hitters who either won't or can't hit the ball strategically with control to different areas through the infield. And as a result, the shift was used to neuter certain players. I hate it!! If guys could hit properly like they use to, the shift would be useless. There is no need to eliminate the shift or limit the shift. Let guys hit around it. If players could do that they could be king.

  • Alfonz24Alfonz24 Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree about today's batters being HR happy. And I hate that they are limiting shifts. To me it would be like the NFL limiting how many times a team can blitz and then only certain positions can blitz.

    To me the best thing about sports has been someone comes up with an innovative game plan and has some success. Then others copy it and then enough teams do it that the opposing side (offense or defense) learns how to neutralize it.

    Example being the 85 Bears 46 defense. They had so much success that others tried to copy. After a few years, the offenses began to learn how to defend the 46 defense. Which probably led to Bill Walsh west coast offense with the short passes.

    #LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Alfonz24 said:
    I agree about today's batters being HR happy. And I hate that they are limiting shifts. To me it would be like the NFL limiting how many times a team can blitz and then only certain positions can blitz.

    To me the best thing about sports has been someone comes up with an innovative game plan and has some success. Then others copy it and then enough teams do it that the opposing side (offense or defense) learns how to neutralize it.

    Example being the 85 Bears 46 defense. They had so much success that others tried to copy. After a few years, the offenses began to learn how to defend the 46 defense. Which probably led to Bill Walsh west coast offense with the short passes.

    ....
    Well put.

    Baseball has always been unique because it does not run on a clock.

    I know that pitch clocks and other rules to speed up the game have been implemented in the minor leagues, and I believe little league as well. Someone can confirm or deny.

    If baseball insists on such changes, I would rather see the young players with a pitch clock. And also with rules about the batter and stepping out, etc. This way the young guys would grow up building an internal clock. And when they get to the pros there would be no need for it. It would be routine. Then you could have some guys who are faster, some slower.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    These new rules should bring some fans back to the game as not everyone like to spend 4 hours just sitting there watching the cat and mouse game between pitchers and hitters. I also like the players not being able to shift all over the field depending on who is batting.

  • 3stars3stars Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The only rule that irks me is the runner on second in extra innings.

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
  • LandrysFedoraLandrysFedora Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3stars said:
    The only rule that irks me is the runner on second in extra innings.

    That rule is terrible. I hate it! Is it still in effect this season? I know they didn't use it in the playoffs.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    The game today was great even though it was against a college team. I really enjoyed to watch it on my new 75 inch tv.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,218 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Speed the game up and I might actually start watching regular season baseball

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    They have stepped the game up so it will be good to have you and others back enjoying it with us. There has not been much participation here on the forum in the last few years.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,218 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    They have stepped the game up so it will be good to have you and others back enjoying it with us. There has not been much participation here on the forum in the last few years.

    I will do my best

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    They have stepped the game up so it will be good to have you and others back enjoying it with us. There has not been much participation here on the forum in the last few years.

    Just added the MLB package. I'll remain positive that the Sox can put a great team on the field. Should be interesting to see how the new changes impact the games. Enjoy that 75" tv !! Stay well out there in ABQ.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    I will have to call direct tv and find out how to get the tv on their remote as right now I have to use both the direct tv remote and the remote from the tv and its a pain in the ass. I am just too old to figure these things out myself.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LandrysFedora said:

    @3stars said:
    The only rule that irks me is the runner on second in extra innings.

    That rule is terrible. I hate it! Is it still in effect this season? I know they didn't use it in the playoffs.

    It became permanent this year. I hate it.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Alfonz24 said:
    I agree about today's batters being HR happy. And I hate that they are limiting shifts. To me it would be like the NFL limiting how many times a team can blitz and then only certain positions can blitz.

    For decades, baseball has had rules about where players can stand on the field.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    I love the rule that limits the shift as it will allow more hits and make the game more fun to watch.

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    I will have to call direct tv and find out how to get the tv on their remote as right now I have to use both the direct tv remote and the remote from the tv and its a pain in the ass. I am just too old to figure these things out myself.

    You should get the MLB channel on channel 213, using only the directv remote. When the regular season begins, I think the scheduled real games start on channel 700.

    So, for now, just try 213 on your directv remote. The only thing you should need your tv remote is for moving between Prime programming (assuming you have Amazon Prime), or selecting other things like YouTube, etc, etc, and making changes to the picture via the settings selection on the tv remote. I turn on my tv by using the directv remote, then use the tv remote to select my programming...after that, its all using the directv remote. Hope that helps.

    BTW, if you haven't already, try Youtube, there is a ton of really interesting stuff there. You will probably find a video of Chaco or Bandelier, the Balloon Festival, etc, etc. I even found a video somebody made while just driving through my hometown of Lowell. Brought back some memories, the city sure has changed.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    It is all so confusing to me . I probably won't even understand what the direct tv person is trying to tell ne to do. I will just have to have somebody from direct tv come in and do it for me. That is what I did before with the old tv. Thanks for trying to help though.
    I grew up in Walpole Mass and probably would not recognize the place now if I went back.

  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These changes are stupid and will ultimately lead to a game which is much, much different than what I grew up with. I especially hate the change of starting extra inning with a ghost runner.

    I have a good one: Since they want to hamstring pitchers and take away any advantage by hurrying up their delivery, I think they should start stopping hitters from fouling off strikes that they can't put in play. Once the count reaches 3-2 the batter isn't allowed to foul off 4-5-6 pitches to stay alive, put that ball in play of go sit in the pine-pony.

    All these changes in MLB and the NFL are because Americans are obsessed with scoring and offense, no more strategy and being able to outthink the opponent. The object has become victory by blunt force trauma.

    @thisistheshow summed it up perfectly.

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    It is all so confusing to me . I probably won't even understand what the direct tv person is trying to tell ne to do. I will just have to have somebody from direct tv come in and do it for me. That is what I did before with the old tv. Thanks for trying to help though.
    I grew up in Walpole Mass and probably would not recognize the place now if I went back.

    Surely you have a neighbor or buddy that can help you. You do realize that when you call Directv that most likely you will be talking with somebody throusands of miles away. The accent differences alone will make understanding them difficult.

    Red Sox-Braves on a 1PM Eastern...just find your way to channel 213 on your Directv remote.

  • LandrysFedoraLandrysFedora Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    @LandrysFedora said:

    @3stars said:
    The only rule that irks me is the runner on second in extra innings.

    That rule is terrible. I hate it! Is it still in effect this season? I know they didn't use it in the playoffs.

    It became permanent this year. I hate it.

    For the playoffs also now?

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    @MCMLVTopps said:

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    It is all so confusing to me . I probably won't even understand what the direct tv person is trying to tell ne to do. I will just have to have somebody from direct tv come in and do it for me. That is what I did before with the old tv. Thanks for trying to help though.
    I grew up in Walpole Mass and probably would not recognize the place now if I went back.

    Surely you have a neighbor or buddy that can help you. You do realize that when you call Directv that most likely you will be talking with somebody throusands of miles away. The accent differences alone will make understanding them difficult.

    Red Sox-Braves on a 1PM Eastern...just find your way to channel 213 on your Directv remote.

    I can get to the game ok, its channel 628 here and will try to get my son to come over to fix the 2 remote problem, He will probably call direct tv for me and they will guide him through the process to get it fixed as I sure don't understand half of what they are saying when I talk to them. The golden years have turned into rusty years after I turned 80 .

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LandrysFedora said:

    @Tabe said:

    @LandrysFedora said:

    @3stars said:
    The only rule that irks me is the runner on second in extra innings.

    That rule is terrible. I hate it! Is it still in effect this season? I know they didn't use it in the playoffs.

    It became permanent this year. I hate it.

    For the playoffs also now?

    Negative. Regular season only.

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So these rule changes are supposed to shorten the gametime but then the larger bases will add more base runners throuout the game and lengthen it so I see it not doing a damn thing to make the games shorter. 3 inches shorter to 1st and 4.5 inches shorter to 2nd and 3rd could make a huge difference. I know with the speed of the Gaurdians last year they were a terror on running to first and stretching singles into doubles.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    I called direct tv and after 1/2 hour I finally got it through my head what they were saying and fixed the problem. The direct tv works just fine now and I don't need the one for the new television.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MCMLVTopps said:

    Red Sox-Braves on a 1PM Eastern...just find your way to channel 213 on your Directv remote.

    And after precisely this game I'll bet a lot of people are reconsidering the clocks. Spring training is one thing, but do we really want to see a regular season game, much less postseason, end because a batter took a fraction of a second too long to get into the box? And if not, and some umpire says to himself "Well there were two strikes and the batter got into the box in 8.3 seconds, and it would be a shame to end the game like this," do we want this sort of thing to become arbitrary?

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    Rules are rules and a player can not let the happen . It is actually good for it to happen in a game that does not matter .

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 said:
    Rules are rules and a player can not let the happen . It is actually good for it to happen in a game that does not matter .

    Not so much. Or rather, in the NBA rules how many steps may a player take before shooting without travelling? And don't get me started about players attempting to increase the depth of the batters box by erasing the back line.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    There is an attempt to force home a point here early on that a new rule is being enforced here and there is no better way to do it than coming down hard on players from the beginning.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Steven59 said:
    So these rule changes are supposed to shorten the gametime but then the larger bases will add more base runners throuout the game and lengthen it so I see it not doing a damn thing to make the games shorter. 3 inches shorter to 1st and 4.5 inches shorter to 2nd and 3rd could make a huge difference. I know with the speed of the Gaurdians last year they were a terror on running to first and stretching singles into doubles.

    The pitch clock is expected to take roughly 20 minutes off of game lengths. That was the effect it had in the minors. Making the bases slightly closer won't have anywhere near the opposite effect.

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    {That was the effect it had in the minors.}

    What happens in the minors stays in the minors - :D

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Steven59 said:
    {That was the effect it had in the minors.}

    What happens in the minors stays in the minors - :D

    It's obviously super early but the first batch of spring training games ran 25 minutes faster than the spring training games of 2022:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/the-mlb-pitch-clock-is-already-proving-to-be-the-best-thing-for-baseball-after-just-a-few-days/ar-AA17ZsC4?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1445905bc0b048cf9e79084196aa2c1d

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    That will be a Hugh help for the watching audience as no one wants to see the batter step out after every pitch and adjust his batting gloves and jock.

  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In those Minor League spring games this rule equates to an average of about five seconds per pitch which leaves me wondering when Americans became so impatient and hurried. I always viewed MLB as a way to relax and pass time, not something that needs to hurry along to its conclusion. I guess those days are gone.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Maywood said:
    In those Minor League spring games this rule equates to an average of about five seconds per pitch which leaves me wondering when Americans became so impatient and hurried. I always viewed MLB as a way to relax and pass time, not something that needs to hurry along to its conclusion. I guess those days are gone.

    It has gotten to the point of each pitch taking a ridiculous amount of time to be thrown.
    Every at bat is not the 7th game of the world series, yet they are treated that way.
    MLB could have taken care of this by having the umpires move the games along, but I understand that we just need a clock.
    When it takes 2 hours to play three innings, that's not relaxing and passing time to me.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It has gotten to the point of each pitch taking a ridiculous amount of time to be thrown.

    Figuring 20 minutes of saved time/game equals 1200 seconds. An average game is around 250 pitches, give or take. Doing the division gives us 4.8 seconds. Weigh that short amount of time vs. the way the change, and all the others intended to "speed things up" and the game becomes distorted.

    Consider the following:
    --- Cal Conley of the Atlanta Braves thought he had just won the game with a two-out, bases-loaded walk-off walk on Saturday. He took a few steps toward first base, bat still in hand, when umpire John Libka jumped out from behind the plate and indicated strike three.

    Game over. Conley couldn’t believe it. Neither could his teammates. Fans booed.

    Welcome to 2023, where baseball’s new rules designed to improve pace of play are coming fast at everyone, particularly the players.

    The most dramatic moment of the new pitch clock era arrived on the first full day of spring games, and in the most dramatic scenario possible. Conley, facing reliever Robert Kwiatkowski of the Boston Red Sox, wasn’t set in the box as the clock wound under eight seconds.

    The penalty is an automatic strike, which led to the game at North Port, Florida, finishing in a 6-6 tie. Kwiatkowski got the strikeout after throwing only two real strikes.

    It was a more dramatic moment than when San Diego Padres slugger Manny Machado on Friday became the first player to draw a pitch clock violation when he was called for an automatic strike in the bottom of the first inning against Seattle because he wasn’t set in the box in time.

    The pitch clock is one of the new rules designed to speed pace of play. Players will have 30 seconds to resume play between batters. Between pitches, pitchers have 15 seconds with nobody on and 20 seconds if there is a baserunner. The pitcher must start his delivery before the clock expires. After a pitch, the clock starts again when the pitcher has the ball back, the catcher and batter are in the circle around home plate, and play is otherwise ready to resume.

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder how much time (cumulatively) is wasted by the umpire to address various violations. By the time the umpire does his thing after identifying a violation, he then takes several seconds to address the issue, which IMO is counterproductive to what the intent of the new rule was in the first place.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The last game I went to was a couple of years ago. It was going to be the last time I ever bothered to attend a game.
    My Twins started a "slow worker" and so did the opposing team.
    Each pitch in was an adventure. These guys must have had 6 different pitches they could throw at 3 different speeds to 9 different locations. Of course when they finally decided on a pitch to throw, the batter had to step out of the box and start the whole idiotic dance over again.
    The other thing I noticed was there were a lot of conferences on the mound that included the entire infield (I think they were waiting for the caterer to bring out snacks).
    This was an evening game in the middle of the week, the first three (uneventful) innings did actually last 2 hours and I didn't get home until well after midnight. It was not a high scoring game with a lot of hits and walks.
    Since then, I turn down free tickets. I don't want to grow old and die during the 4th inning.
    Now that the MLB is doing something about it, I might go to a game this year.......even if I have to pay for tickets.
    I don't know why the game slowed down so much, and I don't expect 90 minute games, but watch a replay of a game from the 1960's or 70's on YouTube, much more enjoyable as far as I'm concerned.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    baseball is so patently absurd now. for years it has been slipping from public consciousness because the fans in the stands are slipping from consciousness, and now desperate times call for the most desperate of measures in an attempt to prevent it from being surpassed in the ratings by world's funniest animals

    can you imagine if Abner Doubleday was around to see a clock and some dude getting auto-striked to end a game in a tie?

    he be like, "damn i knew i should have invented beanie babies instead"

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Baseball is literally "timeless". And figuratively too. It should not have a clock, any clock, involved. End of discussion. Case closed. You can all now head to my New Sentence thread. Thank you. 🤣

  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galay27 said: ** because the fans in the stands are slipping from consciousness**.

    Every game I attend is chock full of fans who aren't paying attention to what's going on, I don't know why they're at the game. It's like a social event or relaxing place to play with their phone.

  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said: Baseball is literally "timeless". And figuratively too. It should not have a clock, any clock, involved.

    George Carlin said the same thing much more eloquently. He would call baseball "pastoral" and football "technological" while adding that baseball could go on forever, it may never end, and football is rigidly timed and will end even if we have to go to sudden death.

  • Alfonz24Alfonz24 Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wished they would have gotten rid of the "opener".

    #LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭

    I don't like the opener either.

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,300 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Peeps born with a magic info phone in their hands...yeah they have attention spans less than gnats. Expect more video game rules to live sports here going on.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Maywood said:
    It has gotten to the point of each pitch taking a ridiculous amount of time to be thrown.

    Figuring 20 minutes of saved time/game equals 1200 seconds. An average game is around 250 pitches, give or take. Doing the division gives us 4.8 seconds. Weigh that short amount of time vs. the way the change, and all the others intended to "speed things up" and the game becomes distorted.

    Consider the following:
    --- Cal Conley of the Atlanta Braves thought he had just won the game with a two-out, bases-loaded walk-off walk on Saturday. He took a few steps toward first base, bat still in hand, when umpire John Libka jumped out from behind the plate and indicated strike three.

    Game over. Conley couldn’t believe it. Neither could his teammates. Fans booed.

    Welcome to 2023, where baseball’s new rules designed to improve pace of play are coming fast at everyone, particularly the players.

    The most dramatic moment of the new pitch clock era arrived on the first full day of spring games, and in the most dramatic scenario possible. Conley, facing reliever Robert Kwiatkowski of the Boston Red Sox, wasn’t set in the box as the clock wound under eight seconds.

    The penalty is an automatic strike, which led to the game at North Port, Florida, finishing in a 6-6 tie. Kwiatkowski got the strikeout after throwing only two real strikes.

    It was a more dramatic moment than when San Diego Padres slugger Manny Machado on Friday became the first player to draw a pitch clock violation when he was called for an automatic strike in the bottom of the first inning against Seattle because he wasn’t set in the box in time.

    The pitch clock is one of the new rules designed to speed pace of play. Players will have 30 seconds to resume play between batters. Between pitches, pitchers have 15 seconds with nobody on and 20 seconds if there is a baserunner. The pitcher must start his delivery before the clock expires. After a pitch, the clock starts again when the pitcher has the ball back, the catcher and batter are in the circle around home plate, and play is otherwise ready to resume.

    I don't see how any of that is an issue. Conley screwed up and paid the price. In a meaningless game. He'll do better next time.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What exactly is it that is so appealing about allowing guys to repeatedly step out and pitches taking 45 seconds? Over and over and over?

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