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Semi numismatic precious metal coins

CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

Semi numismatic precious metal coins…

A few examples (Gold First spouses, Modern Gold commemoratives, gold proof eagles, Platinum proof eagles, proof silver eagles, ATB P mint 5oz pucks, etc….) would love to hear any thoughts and input on these series and any others that I have left out.

-Which semi numismatic PM coins have you dabbled in? Why did you choose that particular series?

-What series do you think has the most long term (20 years) upside potential.

-Which series is doomed to be a loser forever?

-What series is the toughest to put together?

-Do you think OGP is important to keep and preserve? Is graded 70 coins your thing?

Comments

  • USMC_6115USMC_6115 Posts: 2,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought American Gold Eagles (MS) $5, $10, & a $25 in 1991 with hopes of completing yearly sets. It never happened. But, I got those 3 coins PCGS graded and they all graded MS69. I still have them and I'm glad I kept them. Boy, did the $10 and $25 coins take off! Will they keep going? Who knows???

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dabble in them all.

    In addition to your list of modern US Mint coin offerings, there are plenty of other very interesting PM related items.

    Medals are worth collecting, not just coins. Many medals are very limited in mintages with great designs and often high quality. Some have very serious collectors and values usually do quite well over time. In addition to US Mint National Commemorative medals, I enjoy collecting PM products from independent mints like those from Moonlight Mint, Liberty dollar, Silver Shield, Heraldic art, Medallic art, Gold Standard, So-Called dollars, Hawaiian Mint Dala, etc.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold U.S. Mint coins are a good solid investment IMO. I like the full size, one ounce coins. Purchased twenty to twenty five years ago, they have moved significantly with the price of gold. The indications are, gold will continue to move up in value. Cheers, RickO

  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for all the responses so far. @jmski52 as always I really appreciate your time and insights you shared. For now I am tackling the first spouses and modern gold commem’s (both in unc with OGP). Hoping to get the spouses knocked out by end of summer. The older modern gold commem’s have proven tough to find with the OGP. Which is partly why I chose to buy them with OGP. Just adds a little layer of difficulty. Because of this hurdle the set may drag on over the next year or two? I am looking forward to opening up another series or two! I have been studying them slowly and have yet to decide.

    Here are my thoughts (pros and cons) on some of the series…

    First spouse- I can’t think of another series that provides a better buying opportunity. The demand is almost non existent right now. But If you’re a bullion stacker it’s hard to find cheaper half ounce gold right now. And while they sell for close to melt the series is flush with low mintage (even lower survival) issues. It’s nice to be able to buy gold and know there is always a PM floor to the purchase but also have potential upside if they ever gain traction. I chose the UNCs due to the lower mintages. I may tackle proofs when I’m done with the UNCs just because I don’t see any downside risk with such minuscule premiums. I do admit most of them are hideous!

    Silver eagles- There is so many different finishes, mint mark, privy, and sets that it’s become “gimmicky” for lack of a better word. I don’t see the upside for spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for a privy. Obviously the market disagrees with me. But for me I just don’t get it. I do buy an eagle here or there if I can get a low premium coin but that has become a rare thing. None of them are rare compared to other semi numismatic series and the premiums for most of them have reached full potential in my view. Plus the potential for milk spots can’t be ignored. I won’t be going down this road. If you disagree with me, please explain what I’m missing?

    Platinum Eagles- I am very intrigued by the proof Platinum eagles. The beauty of some of them is a thing to behold. The mintages of some of the proofs and UNCs are very appealing. However the premiums are very mature and it’s hard to see them growing much more for most of the issues. For example, I love the 2015 design but paying 3-5k (depending on bells and whistles) for one seems steep. I don’t think the value is there but because I love the look and design I will likely end up buying one even though I think there are better opportunities. But would I do the same if it were 8k or 10k….. No! The market is very small for platinum. But it’s a rare metal and I will likely begin to dabble in them in them later this year. The problem I have is once I dabble, I usually go deeper!

    Gold proof eagles- Have not studied them enough to make an informed opinion but I like gold and love the proof look. Can’t see myself buying a privy example or anything like that but I think it would be very cool to complete a large series Ike this and acquire gold. Premium compared to spot is high but not as high as platinum. I can definitely see myself starting this set at some point. But I’ll try to snag an example or two when I see deals pop up.

    ATB 5 oz pucks- They take up a lot of room! Not rare and the 25 cent denomination was a bad idea. I won’t go down this road. Silver milk spots or other tarnish is a real concern with any silver product and that is a big issue if you go to sell.

    My gut says the silver product the mint puts out is a bad bet. Money would be better used buying lower premium silver like Junk or rounds… I do believe silver has more upside then gold right now. But I fear it will be quite some time before silver has its day.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2023 12:14PM

    I like spouses and modern commemoratives. Stay away from the proof stuff unless attained at the same price a Uncs.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • element159element159 Posts: 493 ✭✭✭

    For the most part, I expect most of this market to fall into the permanent loser category, from a financial point of view. So I would follow the standard advice, collect what you like! In the end you should be able to get about melt and so it won't be worthless, so have fun with whatever seems cool to you.

    I collect the 1999 platinum proofs, as I like the design. I don't care about 70, and with patience I have been able to find some for not too much more than melt. When I get one with OGP the packaging goes in the trash. There is a five year series or so, 1999-2004 maybe, of the platinum proofs that looks like a fun collection.

    The 5 oz pucks seem kind of interesting, as nice big hunks of metal, though I don't have any. Maybe someday.

    image
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,289 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Double eagles, $10 and $5 Indians back before the reddit fake news premium because we gots another shortage hype story. You could find most slabbed at spot (or less) during the times of nobody wanting Au. as recently as 2018-19 , EZ THKS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @element159 - I think you are aligned with how most collectors feel about OGP. It is big and bulky and people don’t want it…but…. I think those that hold onto it will be rewarded 50-100 years from now. But who knows? I also agree with buy what you like. But it’s also fun to speculate a bit. 70s really don’t draw me in either. I suppose if there was a negligible difference in premium I’d buy them. But not on silver items, the risk of turning in the holder would make me sick.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you starting to collect what you mentioned above raw and mostly with OGP? Or are you considering a mixed set of 69's or 70's in PCGS slabs and starting sets in the PCGS registry?

    Many raw modern PM coins, with or without OGP, especially those with better dates and lower surviving mintages, have been picked through. Some of those selling for the lowest cost will be lower quality. It is difficult to judge quality in most eBay type photos.

    Quality and scarcity are important if you want to get longer term premiums above melt. Have you looked at the PCGS registry? Many modern PM coin collectors do see value in collecting coins that have been slabbed. The slabs provide a level of security, and the certificate numbers allow easier record keeping. The registry can also indicate the number of collectors that are interested in a given series.

    Modern PM coins with 70 grades and low population numbers in slabs, especially those with lower mintages and popular designs, will likely command higher prices in the collector market longer term.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been waiting to see what Goldminers has to say. I would defer to his opinions when it comes to precious metal Moderns. :)

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I waited to see what jmski52 had to say ;) and he provided an excellent summary.

    One advantage the ATB pucks have is they are a now complete modern set from 2010-2021, with no new issues to worry about collecting. Some uncirculated MS69DMPL examples are scarce, and also very difficult to get graded now. I prefer their look over the vapor blasted versions.

    The fractional gold buffaloes, roman numeral gold eagles, and modern high relief coins are nice collectable modern subsets. I think these all have good potential in addition to the burnished eagles already mentioned. The Jefferson, Jackson, Van Buren, and Buchanan liberty spouses are also a nice subset to collect with classic designs.

  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers - I have mix of raw, 69 and 70. I don't actively seek out the 70 coins but sometimes the difference is minuscule. I don’t buy anything without being able to return. I’m not into the competitive registry. I’m more into acquiring bullion. I’m not knocking the guys doing the registry with all 70 coins but it’s just not for me. I figure there is more potential upside buying the spouses and Gold commems than a gold bullion eagle. Especially when I can find them often times for less.

    I do believe you’re right about a lot of them being picked over. A while back I ordered 6 spouses from APMEX and I ended up having to return a couple. I have had much better success buying from private collectors here on the forum and elsewhere.

    There is probably more upside buying 70 coins if you end up picking a winner. But there is unc more downside as well.

    I have been thinking long and hard about Platinum and I’m about 75% of the way there. Still deciding if I should just pick the lower mintage MS dates and snag them as I can for as low of a premium as possible. Or if I’m going to splurge a bit and dabble in some of my favorite design proofs.

    I tend to stay away from the silver mint products. I enjoy buying junk silver and filling albums with my boys.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crusty said:

    I have been thinking long and hard about Platinum and I’m about 75% of the way there. Still deciding if I should just pick the lower mintage MS dates and snag them as I can for as low of a premium as possible. Or if I’m going to splurge a bit and dabble in some of my favorite design proofs.

    I tend to stay away from the silver mint products. I enjoy buying junk silver and filling albums with my boys.

    The interesting thing about platinum US mint products is that other than the 2006-2008 West Point burnished coins, the proofs are the ones with many of the lower mintages. They also look the best with no threat of any spotting or distracting tarnish.

    I collect both, but the proofs will probably have more collector's long term. It is unfortunate the Mint charges so much premium for them.

    Quality is an issue to consider for future scarcity. Less than 5% of the uncirculated platinum fractional coins will grade 70 and some of those are now ridiculously expensive. About 30-40% of the proofs grade 70. Since you are after lower premiums, that may not matter, but a nice set of 69's could be a good option. I started collecting them that way and have a lot of spares available.

    Fabulous that you have sons who can enjoy some classic silver coin album collecting.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2023 5:15PM

    @Crusty said:

    I’m more into acquiring bullion. I’m not knocking the guys doing the registry with all 70 coins but it’s just not for me. I figure there is more potential upside buying the spouses and Gold commems than a gold bullion eagle. Especially when I can find them often times for less.

    I can't speak to the potential for the Gold Spouses or the Gold Commems, other than what I already observed - there will always be a gold bullion floor under the prices. Some of the issues will no doubt become highly-sought over time - but the timing is certainly unpredictable and in my opinion will be heavily dependent upon how the bullion market is doing.

    Like Goldminers, I also started collecting modern bullion series graded 69, especially if I could snag them near the price of bullion (which kinda depends on market conditions at that moment.) It's true that many times you simply can't discern why the graders chose 69 instead of 70, or vice versa. I've had experience in both directions. My rationale was simply that I wanted to collect the series, and 69 usually represents a very nice specimen - so why not try to kill two birds with one stone (lower price, nice quality).

    Nevertheless, it's also true that a higher grade is more likely to net a higher return on investment over time and over a cross-section of examples. And (unfortunately?) once you get hooked by a series, you begin to study things like population reports, price guides, auction results, etc. It's easy to get hooked if you are a collector or even if you are an investor/speculator.

    I have been thinking long and hard about Platinum and I’m about 75% of the way there. Still deciding if I should just pick the lower mintage MS dates and snag them as I can for as low of a premium as possible. Or if I’m going to splurge a bit and dabble in some of my favorite design proofs.

    Even though the number of Platinum Eagle collectors is relatively small compared to other modern bullion series, I've observed that the lower mintage coins, and the lower population coins are well-recognized by both collectors and dealers, so getting a bargain for a low mintage Unc Platinum Eagle in 70 is a rather uncommon happening, or I should say, an unheard-of happening. In 69 grade, it can go either way - some issues pop up frequently, others don't very often. That's a function of a maturing series, I think.

    Regardless of the grade, I've come to the conclusion that in order to get a decent deal, you do have to study pricing and availability over time.

    I would advise that you make a plan for what you want to acquire by looking at costs for a particular grouping of coins before jumping in. You can always expand or enhance your collection after you know somewhat to expect.

    Happy Hunting! B)

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 -Great advice. I have already begun tracking the different dates I’m interested in. Unfortunately the ones I like best are also the most expensive. I will definitely keep you updated once I get started.

  • @Goldminers said:

    there are plenty of other very interesting PM related items.

    Medals are worth collecting, not just coins. Many medals are very limited in mintages with great designs and often high quality. Some have very serious collectors and values usually do quite well over time.

    Indeed, I have mostly coins. But, got this 1971 German gold medal (.900 purity) at spot price a few weeks ago. Has scratches, but hey; gold is gold, right?

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,018 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    I like spouses and modern commemoratives. Stay away from the proof stuff unless attained at the same price a Uncs.

    Usually the best aftermarket gold bargain when buying US mint products.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

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