I talked with my Mailman the other day.
Maywood
Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm on pretty good terms with my carrier, we talk several times a week since he parks next to my house for part of his route. The conversation is usually about general stuff but sometimes its "shop talk" in nature. I mentioned something to him last week about package theft and he told me of a scam the USPS knows about but can't seem to stop. Yet, they'll figure it out.
People will steal/generate/print a fake shipping label and use a tracking number from a package they've stolen. The package with the spoofed info gets delivered and when the carrier scans the code it will show that the original stolen package has been delivered. My inference from everything he was telling me was that either the system the USPS uses has a flaw or that the theft needs to involve USPS employees. Either way, the USPS knows what's happening, is trying to stop it but hasn't been able to yet.
It explains how people's packages are getting stolen while showing as "delivered" when tracking is checked.
Maywood.
Comments
Having personal knowledge of the internal workings of the PO, I just don't see how one could get away with that. I've gone through the scenario several times in my head, and there's just no way it can happen by the carrier without them getting caught pretty quickly.
Yeah...that doesn't make sense to me...🤔
He didn't say it was a USPS carrier(s) who was doing this, that's my inference, but it's not something he made up. There's probably a flaw in their tracking system that's being exploited.
In your original post you said "carrier scans the code".
I still can't figure out how it's done. When it's scanned delivered, there is a GPS point recorded. It also records the postal employee that scanned it.
Packages can be delivered and then stolen from the porch or wherever it was left also.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
In my experience it's also unlikely that management, and virtually impossible for a postal inspector, to share this info, or scam if you prefer, with rank and file employees. Now lots of speculation and rumors, like many work places, go all through the postal system, districts, or individual post offices.
If someone could just tell me how it's done I can confirm if it's possible or not. Every scenario I can think of it just won't work, at least not for long. I wouldn't have done anything like that because of my morals, but even it I was capable, I would never have risked that great job for what MIGHT be in a package. However, there ARE plenty of idiots out there.
Mike, I don't have all sorts of details and don't claim to know all the ins-and-outs of the postal system, I only know what he told me. Basically, he said that people are printing labels and using stolen tracking numbers which shows a parcel has been delivered when it has actually been stolen.
If you can't figure out how it's done welcome to the club, I don't know and neither does my carrier, he only told me what's happening. If you want to think we're making it up, that's OK. I only thought I'd post this because so many people lose packages.
It never crossed my mind that you or he was making it up.
I guess we just don't think like criminals.
I'm going to keep thinking about it. Thanks for the info.
The smart people who designed the foolproof system usually haven't met the equally smart people who are determined to beat the system.
Measures and countermeasures........ since the first caveman swindled the other caveman out of a pretty rock.
For your theory to work, the theft/exchange had to have happened in transit of the USPS. No other way to get the package except for porch/mailbox theft. So your theory involves postal workers or contract workers involved in transportation of mail.
Pretty rock? I thought it was the Brooklyn Bridge that was involved ?
😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
(I talked with my Mailman the other day.)
Me too, and out of the blue he promised me he'd start sending me child support checks -
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
It doesn't make sense on any level. If it's a postal employee, you don't need a duplicate label. Empty the package and then throw the box back in the mail stream.
If it's not a postal employee, how do you steal the package while it's in USPS custody? You'd have to steal it BEFORE it is scanned delivered. And why would you bother? You don't need it scanned delivered.
I think your carrier is just relating a rumor.
This very thing or somethng nearly the same happened to me recently. I bought a telescope and received a tracking # that appeared to be good and I followed the package for a couple of days and it showed delivered to my P.O. Box. I went in to pick it up and the Post Master told me it had arrived but in someone elses name, After researching, they contacted the owner of the box it arrived to and they said yes it was a small 13 oz toy that they had ordered. The item should have weighed 30 or more pounds. I, of course, emailed the seller whom never replied. I took the Post Master's statement in writing and approached Paypal(thank goodness I used them) and after 10 days they found in my favor and I got a complete refund. The Post Master told me that this was a new scam that they were aware of and had happened twice before that they knew of locally.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I picked up a package at the post office today and just now, entered the tracking number on the USPS website. It shows delivered at the correct city and zip, but there is nothing to indicate which box it was delivered to. See pic below...
I don't see how that is the same. That's not a package theft but a seller scam, as you describe it. Although that may be what the postman was trying to describe.
Unless I'm missing something, that seems like a difficult scam to pull off. To have a chance of working, the seller would have to know somebody who has a PO box in the same building and get them to order some cheap trinket in order to get a tracking number that shows a package going to that PO.
Or just the same zipcode. But it seems like more trouble than it's worth. Can't i just mail an empty package or nothing? There's no advantage to a delivery other than to make it hard for the recipient to file an insurance claim or charge back. You aren't exactly covering up the crime.
I don't know- the tracking screenshot I posted above notes "Delivered, PO Box". It seems unlikely that it would say that for a delivery to some other location.
edited to add... the last three places I've had PO boxes, the zipcode was for the PO only. Don't know if it's like that everywhere.
Many, many years ago, I studied and became a locksmith. There was a saying in those circles about locks. 'If it is devised by man, it can be defeated by man.' It referred to locks, of all types - but it is equally applicable to systems and controls. Cheers, RickO
I think it most likely that packages that are scanned as delivered but don't appear are either stolen at the point of delivery or delivered to the wrong address. My mailbox is next to my neighbor's and we occasionally have to re-deliver.
Like many other service industries the quality of hires has dropped as standards have had to be lowered to attract workers. Are postal workers still required to take and pass Civil Service exams like they had to when the Post Office was a government entity? The other variable is lots of contract (i.e. non Postal) employees now come in contact with our mail. Again, at least partly, a consequence of less qualified workers available to do the job.
This is what happened to me last week. I received a package from Japan that would have had to go through customs. When I opened it there was a piece of taped cardboard instead but the merchandise was missing.
I talked to my mailman about postal thefts and he told me most of the thefts were committed by the contractors they use to truck mail between cities. They would stop at interstate travel plazas to refuel and use the facilities and they would go in the back of the truck and search through the packages.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Why is the USPS using "contractors" except if it's to get mail to McMurdo in Antarctica or other out-of-the-way areas ? If this is true, no wonder.
More stuff is getting lost/stolen, delayed, or ending up in the wrong city the last 2-3 years than I can recall going back 30-40 years.
There's flexibility with contractors that doesn't exist with union workers.
I assume that the USPS uses contractors as a cost savings measure.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I am pretty sure (but not positive) that they also use commercial airlines for express mail. This removes the chain of custody from USPS employees or their contractors.
So I received an attempt at a FED-EX scam this morning via e-mail.
The e-mail was from FedEx.com so I opened it and the box stated that "Fed-Ex couldn't deliver a package because they need a signature" and they provided a tracking number and a "Track Package" option box for me in the e-mail. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I know not to use that link!! I copied the tracking number down, deleted the message and used a search for Fed-Ex tracking.
Yes, no number found, bogus scam attempt.
Five finger discounts are crimes of opportunity that have to be worth the risks of getting caught and charged. There's probably only 5% of the populution that totally lack scruples will to steal like that. My only concern at this point on ebay are standard envelope shipments where buyers think that by claiming they did not get an order when they did that showed no tracking harms no one. That is a more subtle form of theft.
Pretty sure that's how a package I was to receive got "compromised" and contents stolen. On the truck from city of origin to PO receiving point. Bastages.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@PerryHall said: I talked to my mailman about postal thefts and he told me most of the thefts were committed by the contractors they use to truck mail between cities.
It has always been my thinking that most USPS theft took place either by the private contractors or in the large USPS regional sorting facilities. To my way of thinking an in-house theft at a point-of-delivery PO or by a carrier on a route seem too risky and easy to prove. I'm sure they happen, though.
The thefts by the contractors would shrink to nil if the USPS would put proper security measures in place. I mean, what reason is there for a driver to access the mail at a rest or fuel stop other than to steal? The contents of the load should be locked up at the origin point by USPS agent and unlocked only at the destination point by a USPS agent with no access permitted in-between. USPS needs to wake up and solve this problem of the mail not really being in their custody at all times. USPS, lock the damn truck after putting the mail in it and unlock it when the damn truck gets to where it needs to go to unload it. The technology to do this is there, use it!
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
The package gets stolen, another package with spoofed info gets delivered?
The package gets scanned when? When delivered or before the spoofed info goes on?
The package gets stolen before delivered so a fake shipping label is attached? If it is stolen, what does a fake label go on?
I'm just trying to figure out the actual delivery timeline. Seems to me the theft would have to happen internally by a carrier....yes, an inside job.
The technology is there, but the motivation isn't. No postal employee or manager will be fired or lose their job just because thefts are up at their location.
Once I reported theft to my local P.O. They couldn't possibly have cared less.
I'm trying to figure out what the point would be. The spoofed package doesn't hide the crime. It doesn't even hide the location of the crime as the packages get photographed when they are scanned through the sort facility. It seems like a lot of trouble for no benefit.
Right! If you're stealing a package, why try and disguise a delivery with a bogus label? Seems more complicated than a thief would want it to be. Grab n' go.....take it on the run....now you see it, now you don't...
I got the same thing. In fact, as I was leaving the post office after voicing my outrage of the theft occurring while the package was in their custody , the supervisor insulted me with "hope you have a better day tomorrow."
grrrrrrr! I wanted so bad to give him the one-finger salute as I left but being the gentleman that I am, didn't.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Or just throw the empty box back in the mail stream. Creating a facsimile and trying to insert back in the mail just seems a lot of effort - and not that easy to do.
Post Office needs to use some of that money they get from their high-priced stamps and hire some asset protection specialists. I worked for a time as an APS at a major retailer's warehouses. Part of my job was to secure contractor trucks with 53-foot trailers by locking the load before it left the warehouse. Some of those loads were of firearms of all kinds. Trucker who cuts that lock and steals firearms is facing investigation, not by just the company, but by AT&F. The load could only be unlocked at the receiving point by an Asset Protection Specialist or a warehouse/store supervisor. We even had GPS tracking in place on some of the trucks with the pricier merchandise. It's about accountability. When theft occurs and there is little to no accountability for individuals that is where the problem starts. It is a FELONY to steal United States mail.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein