They hit you harder with the fees. It cost me $6 to cash a check drawn on BoA because I dont have an account there. My wife does but that doesn't matter to them.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
My local branch closed so I went to my big bank in town which is Capital One. They don’t offer SDB’s so I opened one at another bank just recently. It’s more for our estate papers, passports etc and for some gold and BB cards. I paid $25 a year forever but this bank offered us a box for $85 a year. Cheap insurance for sure
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@olympicsos said:
One suggestion I’d have is maybe having the US Mint in the safe deposit box business. After all they have Fort Knox and their own police department. If run well enough, it can also be a source of revenue other than selling numismatic products. If most banks prefer to be out of the safe deposit box business, then I’d rather have the government in it. If something goes wrong with them, it’s the government that gets involved anyways. Those safe deposit box locations can also double up as over the counter sales locations for US Mint products too.
No thanks. There is nothing to stop them from deciding to search or confiscate what is there. A change in policy, a change in law, and what's yours is suddenly theirs.
Then who else wants to provide safe deposit box services, which are not that profitable, and be regulated left and right? Government, at the very least should provide essential services that no one else wants to provide, I am afraid we are going there with safe deposit boxes.
@gumby1234 said:
They hit you harder with the fees. It cost me $6 to cash a check drawn on BoA because I dont have an account there. My wife does but that doesn't matter to them.
@Exbrit said:
The banks need to make room for the Coffee bars and social areas.
Some do, but many people these days prefer to do everything online. The savings accounts with the best interest rates, for example, are banks that are online only.
@gumby1234 said:
They hit you harder with the fees. It cost me $6 to cash a check drawn on BoA because I dont have an account there. My wife does but that doesn't matter to them.
So why do you bank there? I wouldn’t.
Sometimes choosing between banks is choosing between lesser evils. Not all banks in the US serve all areas or have the most convenient hours/services either.
I've had a large (15x20) SDB for my coins at a major (but local) bank for about 15 years without issues. They were slow to open up the vault area after covid eased which was a major pain, but now they are open again via appointments. I pay $100 a year which to me has been worth it. Hoping they keep this going, not too many other banks around here offer SDB service with larger boxes.
Like others have said, I'll stick with the banks over some of the private SDB services all day long.
This topic has come up here several times over the years. I do not have an SDB. I have layered home security (layered means several, separate systems) that protects the house and contents. Having been involved in security for many years, I employed that knowledge to protect my personal possessions. I enjoy the easy access, and no monthly/annual fees. Cheers, RickO
@jeffas1974 said:
So I guess the next question is where is a good place to store your collection if you don't want to keep it at your house and you can't find a SDB?
Pvc pipes, sealant and a secret location
PVC pipes sounds like a scary place to store your coins!
@jeffas1974 said:
So I guess the next question is where is a good place to store your collection if you don't want to keep it at your house and you can't find a SDB?
Pvc pipes, sealant and a secret location
PVC pipes sounds like a scary place to store your coins!
It's not the PVC in flips that hurts coins---it's the plasticizer oil mixed with the PVC to make it flexible that hurts the coin since it can migrate to the surface of the coin. PVC pipe doesn't have this plasticizer and is stable. Also, the coins would normally be packaged in rolls or sealed in a zip-lock bag. The real danger would be someone with a metal detector finding them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@jeffas1974 said:
So I guess the next question is where is a good place to store your collection if you don't want to keep it at your house and you can't find a SDB?
Pvc pipes, sealant and a secret location
PVC pipes sounds like a scary place to store your coins!
It's not the PVC in flips that hurts coins---it's the plasticizer oil mixed with the PVC to make it flexible that hurts the coin since it can migrate to the surface of the coin. PVC pipe doesn't have this plasticizer and is stable. Also, the coins would normally be packaged in rolls or sealed in a zip-lock bag. The real danger would be someone with a metal detector finding them.
Thank you Perry Hall for reminding me of the PVC facts.
Thanks for this thread, I never realized that this was happening. I had two deposit boxes-one in one branch and the other in another. One of the branches closed, so I went and got another in the other branch. I now have 2 SDB's in the same branch. The cost of these SDB's has more then doubled in the past year. I am planning to downsize my collection and keep the smaller of the two SDB's.
let's just say yeah my house most likely has been scouted by crooks but they tend to pass on it most likely do to many factors involved that they can't overcome
@olympicsos said:
One suggestion I’d have is maybe having the US Mint in the safe deposit box business. After all they have Fort Knox and their own police department. If run well enough, it can also be a source of revenue other than selling numismatic products. If most banks prefer to be out of the safe deposit box business, then I’d rather have the government in it. If something goes wrong with them, it’s the government that gets involved anyways. Those safe deposit box locations can also double up as over the counter sales locations for US Mint products too.
No thanks. There is nothing to stop them from deciding to search or confiscate what is there. A change in policy, a change in law, and what's yours is suddenly theirs.
Then who else wants to provide safe deposit box services, which are not that profitable, and be regulated left and right? Government, at the very least should provide essential services that no one else wants to provide, I am afraid we are going there with safe deposit boxes.
Actually, we are not. It's not an essential service. The government is NEVER going to offer it. Police, fire and national defense, yes. SDBs, no. You are on your own.
The true cost of SDBs has been subsidized forever by other fees banks charge. Now that they are losing pricing power, that subsidy is being stripped away, and the reality is that people are not willing to pay the true cost of having a SDB. If that changes, you will see companies pop up all over the place to sell you the service. Otherwise, SDBs will go the way of newspapers, landlines, shopping malls, etc.
There are still safe deposit boxes around, especially in the smaller bank chains.
I consider the risks of forfeiture or loss to be very low.
Like anything, I spread the risk around and have 3-4 boxes at different banks plus a safe at home for when stuff is out on field trips.
One of the challenges I’ve noted with bank boxes comes with the weight of any significant quantity of coin and bullion. Throwing a $1000 face bag of 90% into one of the big boxes exceeds their structural weight limits and will definitely get some suspicious looks from the bankers if they try to help you pull the thing out! Yep, I’m an old rock hound!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
@jeffas1974 said:
So I guess the next question is where is a good place to store your collection if you don't want to keep it at your house and you can't find a SDB?
@olympicsos said:
One suggestion I’d have is maybe having the US Mint in the safe deposit box business. After all they have Fort Knox and their own police department. If run well enough, it can also be a source of revenue other than selling numismatic products. If most banks prefer to be out of the safe deposit box business, then I’d rather have the government in it. If something goes wrong with them, it’s the government that gets involved anyways. Those safe deposit box locations can also double up as over the counter sales locations for US Mint products too.
No thanks. There is nothing to stop them from deciding to search or confiscate what is there. A change in policy, a change in law, and what's yours is suddenly theirs.
Then who else wants to provide safe deposit box services, which are not that profitable, and be regulated left and right? Government, at the very least should provide essential services that no one else wants to provide, I am afraid we are going there with safe deposit boxes.
Actually, we are not. It's not an essential service. The government is NEVER going to offer it. Police, fire and national defense, yes. SDBs, no. You are on your own.
The true cost of SDBs has been subsidized forever by other fees banks charge. Now that they are losing pricing power, that subsidy is being stripped away, and the reality is that people are not willing to pay the true cost of having a SDB. If that changes, you will see companies pop up all over the place to sell you the service. Otherwise, SDBs will go the way of newspapers, landlines, shopping malls, etc.
People who are willing to pay the “true cost” of a safe deposit box are the very rich and they have services catered to them. The reason why I think safe deposit boxes are important is because ultimately this boils down to the fact that police are most helpful AFTER loss occurs. The government provides insurance so that one can be comfortable depositing money in a bank. As someone who’s interested in collecting coins and by extension valuable goods, I want to be confident that my stuff won’t be stolen or if God forbid something happens, I won’t have to attempt futile litigation with a bank where the bank is more interested in tiring me out to make me give up fighting them.
@silverpop said:
let's just say yeah my house most likely has been scouted by crooks but they tend to pass on it most likely do to many factors involved that they can't overcome
Just like counterfeiting, it’s always a game with crooks in other related trades.
@Glen2022 said:
I used to receive a free safety deposit box however, the bank that provided this was bought out by another larger bank. The freebie no longer offered.
There’s banks that used to offer free pens that don’t when bought out by a larger bank. Never mind an SDB.
@2ndCharter said: Credit cards often charge more than 25% interest,
Do what I do - pay the balance each month - 0% that way.
Paying off your credit card balance each month if you're able to do so is a no-brainer. Actually, if you pay it off each month, and if you get points that can cash in for dollars, negative interest.
@olympicsos said:
One suggestion I’d have is maybe having the US Mint in the safe deposit box business. After all they have Fort Knox and their own police department. If run well enough, it can also be a source of revenue other than selling numismatic products. If most banks prefer to be out of the safe deposit box business, then I’d rather have the government in it. If something goes wrong with them, it’s the government that gets involved anyways. Those safe deposit box locations can also double up as over the counter sales locations for US Mint products too.
No thanks. There is nothing to stop them from deciding to search or confiscate what is there. A change in policy, a change in law, and what's yours is suddenly theirs.
Then who else wants to provide safe deposit box services, which are not that profitable, and be regulated left and right? Government, at the very least should provide essential services that no one else wants to provide, I am afraid we are going there with safe deposit boxes.
Actually, we are not. It's not an essential service. The government is NEVER going to offer it. Police, fire and national defense, yes. SDBs, no. You are on your own.
The true cost of SDBs has been subsidized forever by other fees banks charge. Now that they are losing pricing power, that subsidy is being stripped away, and the reality is that people are not willing to pay the true cost of having a SDB. If that changes, you will see companies pop up all over the place to sell you the service. Otherwise, SDBs will go the way of newspapers, landlines, shopping malls, etc.
People who are willing to pay the “true cost” of a safe deposit box are the very rich and they have services catered to them. The reason why I think safe deposit boxes are important is because ultimately this boils down to the fact that police are most helpful AFTER loss occurs. The government provides insurance so that one can be comfortable depositing money in a bank. As someone who’s interested in collecting coins and by extension valuable goods, I want to be confident that my stuff won’t be stolen or if God forbid something happens, I won’t have to attempt futile litigation with a bank where the bank is more interested in tiring me out to make me give up fighting them.
I'm certainly not saying they are not important. I'm just saying they are not essential. Lots of people make do without them.
I get that you want a subsidized way to securely store your valuables. And I want subsidized cable TV, with ALL the channels, which I consider an essential necessity. Good luck to both of us.
@MasonG said:
If renting the boxes was profitable, banks wouldn't be eliminating them.
Operating brick and mortar locations period is something larger banks don’t want to do much of.
They're businesses whose employees would like to be paid and whose owners are going to want to earn a profit for their efforts. They're going to do what earns them money.
@olympicsos said:
One suggestion I’d have is maybe having the US Mint in the safe deposit box business. After all they have Fort Knox and their own police department. If run well enough, it can also be a source of revenue other than selling numismatic products. If most banks prefer to be out of the safe deposit box business, then I’d rather have the government in it. If something goes wrong with them, it’s the government that gets involved anyways. Those safe deposit box locations can also double up as over the counter sales locations for US Mint products too.
No thanks. There is nothing to stop them from deciding to search or confiscate what is there. A change in policy, a change in law, and what's yours is suddenly theirs.
Then who else wants to provide safe deposit box services, which are not that profitable, and be regulated left and right? Government, at the very least should provide essential services that no one else wants to provide, I am afraid we are going there with safe deposit boxes.
Actually, we are not. It's not an essential service. The government is NEVER going to offer it. Police, fire and national defense, yes. SDBs, no. You are on your own.
The true cost of SDBs has been subsidized forever by other fees banks charge. Now that they are losing pricing power, that subsidy is being stripped away, and the reality is that people are not willing to pay the true cost of having a SDB. If that changes, you will see companies pop up all over the place to sell you the service. Otherwise, SDBs will go the way of newspapers, landlines, shopping malls, etc.
People who are willing to pay the “true cost” of a safe deposit box are the very rich and they have services catered to them. The reason why I think safe deposit boxes are important is because ultimately this boils down to the fact that police are most helpful AFTER loss occurs. The government provides insurance so that one can be comfortable depositing money in a bank. As someone who’s interested in collecting coins and by extension valuable goods, I want to be confident that my stuff won’t be stolen or if God forbid something happens, I won’t have to attempt futile litigation with a bank where the bank is more interested in tiring me out to make me give up fighting them.
I'm certainly not saying they are not important. I'm just saying they are not essential. Lot's of people make do without them.
I get that you want a subsidized way to securely store your valuables. And I want subsidized cable TV, with ALL the channels, which I consider an essential necessity. Good luck to both of us.
Not necessarily subsidized. The US Mint would probably lose more money minting cents and nickels than “subsidizing” this.
Back in the seventies, a San Francisco coin dealer (Steve Ahajanian) had either 1 or 2 banks of safe deposit boxes in his shop.
He kept inventory in them.
Only he knew which inventory was in which box. The banks of boxes were too heavy and bulky to move.
Interesting departure from the usual coin shop big safe.
@olympicsos said:
Not necessarily subsidized. The US Mint would probably lose more money minting cents and nickels than “subsidizing” this.
They wouldn't lose any money if they charged enough to cover the cost. Of course, if they tried to do that, nobody would rent them.
The thing is many larger banks don’t want brick and mortar locations period. You have banks that got in trouble for opening fake accounts under people’s names to increase profits. If banks truly had it their way, FDIC and other regulations wouldn’t exist either.
@olympicsos said:
The thing is many larger banks don’t want brick and mortar locations period.
Lots of people want to work from home and not go into the office, too. People tend to choose things they prefer over things they don't and businesses are run by people. If bank owners don't want to have brick and mortar locations, that's their decision to make.
@olympicsos said:
You have banks that got in trouble for opening fake accounts under people’s names to increase profits.
And that's wrong. Don't know what that has to do with renting SDBs, though.
@olympicsos said:
If banks truly had it their way, FDIC and other regulations wouldn’t exist either.
But they don't have it their way. Plenty of regulations exist and I might suggest you look to them for one reason banks are looking for ways to cut costs.
The true cost of SDBs has been subsidized forever by other fees banks charge. Now that they are losing pricing power, that subsidy is being stripped away, and the reality is that people are not willing to pay the true cost of having a SDB.
The great irony is that some politicians are trying to control/reduce fees, etc. that can be charged. The law of unintended consequences....
I also don't see a SDB as an "essential service", but if it was declared to be one, taxpayers would then have to subsidize it.
They are more of a convenience or service that was traditionally offered by banks. People are free to buy their own safes, alarms, or private security as needed.
I like some of the alternatives people have mentioned above. I'd only add "decoy" to those lists. Maybe a more easily accessible safe filled with fake gold or silver coins, large silver-looking silver coins, etc.
@olympicsos said:
The thing is many larger banks don’t want brick and mortar locations period.
Lots of people want to work from home and not go into the office, too. People tend to choose things they prefer over things they don't and businesses are run by people. If bank owners don't want to have brick and mortar locations, that's their decision to make.
That’s their decision to make, but there are problems that result from it. I am of the view that it’s beneficial to the hobby as a whole that we at least try to make the situation better.
@olympicsos said:
You have banks that got in trouble for opening fake accounts under people’s names to increase profits.
And that's wrong. Don't know what that has to do with renting SDBs, though.
Banks care more about setting record profits every year.
@olympicsos said:
Not necessarily subsidized. The US Mint would probably lose more money minting cents and nickels than “subsidizing” this.
They wouldn't lose any money if they charged enough to cover the cost. Of course, if they tried to do that, nobody would rent them.
What does a SDB traditionally cost ? I'm talking a relative small one that just holds a few papers and a few pieces of jewelry or coins. Kitchen drawer-sized, maybe a bit smalelr.
They cost roughly $60 (for a small box) to $180 per year.
Sometimes discounts apply.
They might be looked at as a way to get customers in the door.
I wouldn’t even have accounts at a couple of the banks I use if it not for their offering of safe deposits!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
@JBK said:
They are more of a convenience or service that was traditionally offered by banks. People are free to buy their own safes, alarms, or private security as needed.
I like some of the alternatives people have mentioned above. I'd only add "decoy" to those lists. Maybe a more easily accessible safe filled with fake gold or silver coins, large silver-looking silver coins, etc.
The consequence to this might be certain people deciding this hobby or holding onto other valuables whether it’s a hobby or not is a proposition that’s too risky. Or you will have an increase in anonymous collectors who don’t put their full name on the fact that they’re involved in this or other hobby with valuables involved, that may have other consequences too, especially with regards to information being shared, the social aspect of the hobby etc. Theft, loss and just being screwed in general is always a BIG concern in this hobby.
let's just say expecting the unexpected to happen is one way i can make a plan very effective without drawing notice to myself and knowing the dark side of human nature as well as i do i can avoid things that otherwise will get me noticed
@olympicsos said:
I am of the view that it’s beneficial to the hobby as a whole that we at least try to make the situation better.
I am of the view that those who want a product/service should be the ones to pay for it and that their desire for such is not an obligation to provide it to be placed on others.
@olympicsos said:
I am of the view that it’s beneficial to the hobby as a whole that we at least try to make the situation better.
I am of the view that those who want a product/service should be the ones to pay for it and that their desire for such is not an obligation to provide it to be placed on others.
If that’s the case, then people shouldn’t be lamenting the loss of customer service at banks.
When the highest end collectors and dealers are the only ones that can afford to not only buy coins, but secure them safely, and then when that results in a loss to the hobby as a whole down the road, you all have no one to blame but yourselves.
@nwcoast said:
There are still safe deposit boxes around, especially in the smaller bank chains.
I consider the risks of forfeiture or loss to be very low.
Like anything, I spread the risk around and have 3-4 boxes at different banks plus a safe at home for when stuff is out on field trips.
One of the challenges I’ve noted with bank boxes comes with the weight of any significant quantity of coin and bullion. Throwing a $1000 face bag of 90% into one of the big boxes exceeds their structural weight limits and will definitely get some suspicious looks from the bankers if they try to help you pull the thing out! Yep, I’m an old rock hound!
Yes lol! When the lady goes to pull the box out for me and she glances over with a weird look and says, "I'm going to let you get this. It seems very heavy."
BST References] oilstates2003, GoldCoin98, COINS MAKE CENTS, SurfinxHI, mbogoman, detroitfan2,
When the highest end collectors and dealers are the only ones that can afford to not only buy coins, but secure them safely, and then when that results in a loss to the hobby as a whole down the road, you all have no one to blame but yourselves.
So you want the government to get into the SDB business to help coin collectors?
I'd prefer that the government focus taking the criminal element out of the equation.
BTW, lots and lots of non "highest end collectors and dealers" are willing and able to provide their own security.
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
I've had a large (15x20) SDB for my coins at a major (but local) bank for about 15 years without issues. They were slow to open up the vault area after covid eased which was a major pain, but now they are open again via appointments. I pay $100 a year which to me has been worth it. Hoping they keep this going, not too many other banks around here offer SDB service with larger boxes.
Like others have said, I'll stick with the banks over some of the private SDB services all day long.
WOW: one of my boxes is 6 x 10 and I can barely lift it. What bank offers a 15 x 20 for $100.
@ricko said:
This topic has come up here several times over the years. I do not have an SDB. I have layered home security (layered means several, separate systems) that protects the house and contents. Having been involved in security for many years, I employed that knowledge to protect my personal possessions. I enjoy the easy access, and no monthly/annual fees. Cheers, RickO
Ricko:
How about sharing some of your security systems with us? Or are these trade secrets? I'm sure many members would appreciate ideas on enhancing security. Might be the subject of a different thread, however.
@olympicsos said:
I am of the view that it’s beneficial to the hobby as a whole that we at least try to make the situation better.
I am of the view that those who want a product/service should be the ones to pay for it and that their desire for such is not an obligation to provide it to be placed on others.
If that’s the case, then people shouldn’t be lamenting the loss of customer service at banks.
I'm not complaining about lack of customer service, just stating that people who want a service should expect to pay for it. Since banks are eliminating SDBs, it's pretty clear whatever they're currently charging isn't covering the actual costs and that those banks don't expect that they could charge enough to do so.
@olympicsos said:
When the highest end collectors and dealers are the only ones that can afford to not only buy coins, but secure them safely, and then when that results in a loss to the hobby as a whole down the road, you all have no one to blame but yourselves.
Banks are not responsible for supporting coin collectors or the hobby in general.
When the highest end collectors and dealers are the only ones that can afford to not only buy coins, but secure them safely, and then when that results in a loss to the hobby as a whole down the road, you all have no one to blame but yourselves.
So you want the government to get into the SDB business to help coin collectors?
I'd prefer that the government focus taking the criminal element out of the equation.
BTW, lots and lots of non "highest end collectors and dealers" are willing and able to provide their own security.
It would benefit more than just coin collectors, there’s other valuables that get stored in SDB’s. The government is in the numismatic business already and doesn’t make a whole lot of profit doing it. They also have public material designed to encourage coin collecting and they take the time to talk to hobbyists, show up to coin shows, give interviews to hobby publications etc. If the US Mint was bent on making the same proportion of profit that banks do, there wouldn’t be much numismatic products to choose from, if you’re lucky to have any. You might have coins straight out of circulation and that’s it. You have that situation, nice modern coins would be even HARDER to find than they are today, Cladking has already been sound the alarm on modern clad coins. Think 1965-1967 with SMS sets if you’re lucky.
Part of taking the criminal element out is also prevention strategies. More secure safe deposit boxes, equals less opportunities to burglarize homes, businesses etc. Less opportunities to burglarize homes, businesses, etc. allows law enforcement to focus resources elsewhere.
Providing one’s own security is also dependent on state and local regulations. Not every state is Florida.
@Glen2022... I have mentioned them in the past here. Motion activated lights- external and internal, alarms also tied to police, secure doors, dogs, large super secure safe, secured to concrete. Skilled Firearm Instructor with trained wife, cameras.... and a couple of surprises I will not discuss. Cheers, RickO
@olympicsos said:
The government is in the numismatic business already and doesn’t make a whole lot of profit doing it.
You might be onto something here. Perhaps the government could require everybody to collect coins and to store them in government facilities. They'd make a ton of money doing that.
Comments
Which is CHEAP considering inflation rates, default risks, etc.
They hit you harder with the fees. It cost me $6 to cash a check drawn on BoA because I dont have an account there. My wife does but that doesn't matter to them.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
My local branch closed so I went to my big bank in town which is Capital One. They don’t offer SDB’s so I opened one at another bank just recently. It’s more for our estate papers, passports etc and for some gold and BB cards. I paid $25 a year forever but this bank offered us a box for $85 a year. Cheap insurance for sure
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Then who else wants to provide safe deposit box services, which are not that profitable, and be regulated left and right? Government, at the very least should provide essential services that no one else wants to provide, I am afraid we are going there with safe deposit boxes.
So why do you bank there? I wouldn’t.
Some do, but many people these days prefer to do everything online. The savings accounts with the best interest rates, for example, are banks that are online only.
Sometimes choosing between banks is choosing between lesser evils. Not all banks in the US serve all areas or have the most convenient hours/services either.
I've had a large (15x20) SDB for my coins at a major (but local) bank for about 15 years without issues. They were slow to open up the vault area after covid eased which was a major pain, but now they are open again via appointments. I pay $100 a year which to me has been worth it. Hoping they keep this going, not too many other banks around here offer SDB service with larger boxes.
Like others have said, I'll stick with the banks over some of the private SDB services all day long.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
This topic has come up here several times over the years. I do not have an SDB. I have layered home security (layered means several, separate systems) that protects the house and contents. Having been involved in security for many years, I employed that knowledge to protect my personal possessions. I enjoy the easy access, and no monthly/annual fees. Cheers, RickO
PVC pipes sounds like a scary place to store your coins!
It's not the PVC in flips that hurts coins---it's the plasticizer oil mixed with the PVC to make it flexible that hurts the coin since it can migrate to the surface of the coin. PVC pipe doesn't have this plasticizer and is stable. Also, the coins would normally be packaged in rolls or sealed in a zip-lock bag. The real danger would be someone with a metal detector finding them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Thank you Perry Hall for reminding me of the PVC facts.
Thanks for this thread, I never realized that this was happening. I had two deposit boxes-one in one branch and the other in another. One of the branches closed, so I went and got another in the other branch. I now have 2 SDB's in the same branch. The cost of these SDB's has more then doubled in the past year. I am planning to downsize my collection and keep the smaller of the two SDB's.
let's just say yeah my house most likely has been scouted by crooks but they tend to pass on it most likely do to many factors involved that they can't overcome
https://www.omnicoin.com/collection/colind?page=1&sort=sort&sale=1&country=0
Actually, we are not. It's not an essential service. The government is NEVER going to offer it. Police, fire and national defense, yes. SDBs, no. You are on your own.
The true cost of SDBs has been subsidized forever by other fees banks charge. Now that they are losing pricing power, that subsidy is being stripped away, and the reality is that people are not willing to pay the true cost of having a SDB. If that changes, you will see companies pop up all over the place to sell you the service. Otherwise, SDBs will go the way of newspapers, landlines, shopping malls, etc.
There are still safe deposit boxes around, especially in the smaller bank chains.
I consider the risks of forfeiture or loss to be very low.
Like anything, I spread the risk around and have 3-4 boxes at different banks plus a safe at home for when stuff is out on field trips.
One of the challenges I’ve noted with bank boxes comes with the weight of any significant quantity of coin and bullion. Throwing a $1000 face bag of 90% into one of the big boxes exceeds their structural weight limits and will definitely get some suspicious looks from the bankers if they try to help you pull the thing out! Yep, I’m an old rock hound!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Credit cards often charge more than 25% interest,
But make sure the MAP is secure in a SDB
Credit cards often charge more than 25% interest,
Do what I do - pay the balance each month - 0% that way.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
People who are willing to pay the “true cost” of a safe deposit box are the very rich and they have services catered to them. The reason why I think safe deposit boxes are important is because ultimately this boils down to the fact that police are most helpful AFTER loss occurs. The government provides insurance so that one can be comfortable depositing money in a bank. As someone who’s interested in collecting coins and by extension valuable goods, I want to be confident that my stuff won’t be stolen or if God forbid something happens, I won’t have to attempt futile litigation with a bank where the bank is more interested in tiring me out to make me give up fighting them.
If renting the boxes was profitable, banks wouldn't be eliminating them.
Just like counterfeiting, it’s always a game with crooks in other related trades.
I used to receive a free safety deposit box however, the bank that provided this was bought out by another larger bank. The freebie no longer offered.
There’s banks that used to offer free pens that don’t when bought out by a larger bank. Never mind an SDB.
Paying off your credit card balance each month if you're able to do so is a no-brainer. Actually, if you pay it off each month, and if you get points that can cash in for dollars, negative interest.
Operating brick and mortar locations period is something larger banks don’t want to do much of.
I'm certainly not saying they are not important. I'm just saying they are not essential. Lots of people make do without them.
I get that you want a subsidized way to securely store your valuables. And I want subsidized cable TV, with ALL the channels, which I consider an essential necessity. Good luck to both of us.
They're businesses whose employees would like to be paid and whose owners are going to want to earn a profit for their efforts. They're going to do what earns them money.
Not necessarily subsidized. The US Mint would probably lose more money minting cents and nickels than “subsidizing” this.
Back in the seventies, a San Francisco coin dealer (Steve Ahajanian) had either 1 or 2 banks of safe deposit boxes in his shop.
He kept inventory in them.
Only he knew which inventory was in which box. The banks of boxes were too heavy and bulky to move.
Interesting departure from the usual coin shop big safe.
They wouldn't lose any money if they charged enough to cover the cost. Of course, if they tried to do that, nobody would rent them.
The thing is many larger banks don’t want brick and mortar locations period. You have banks that got in trouble for opening fake accounts under people’s names to increase profits. If banks truly had it their way, FDIC and other regulations wouldn’t exist either.
Lots of people want to work from home and not go into the office, too. People tend to choose things they prefer over things they don't and businesses are run by people. If bank owners don't want to have brick and mortar locations, that's their decision to make.
And that's wrong. Don't know what that has to do with renting SDBs, though.
But they don't have it their way. Plenty of regulations exist and I might suggest you look to them for one reason banks are looking for ways to cut costs.
The great irony is that some politicians are trying to control/reduce fees, etc. that can be charged. The law of unintended consequences....
I also don't see a SDB as an "essential service", but if it was declared to be one, taxpayers would then have to subsidize it.
They are more of a convenience or service that was traditionally offered by banks. People are free to buy their own safes, alarms, or private security
as needed.
I like some of the alternatives people have mentioned above. I'd only add "decoy" to those lists. Maybe a more easily accessible safe filled with fake gold or silver coins, large silver-looking silver coins, etc.
That’s their decision to make, but there are problems that result from it. I am of the view that it’s beneficial to the hobby as a whole that we at least try to make the situation better.
Banks care more about setting record profits every year.
What does a SDB traditionally cost ? I'm talking a relative small one that just holds a few papers and a few pieces of jewelry or coins. Kitchen drawer-sized, maybe a bit smalelr.
They cost roughly $60 (for a small box) to $180 per year.
Sometimes discounts apply.
They might be looked at as a way to get customers in the door.
I wouldn’t even have accounts at a couple of the banks I use if it not for their offering of safe deposits!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
The consequence to this might be certain people deciding this hobby or holding onto other valuables whether it’s a hobby or not is a proposition that’s too risky. Or you will have an increase in anonymous collectors who don’t put their full name on the fact that they’re involved in this or other hobby with valuables involved, that may have other consequences too, especially with regards to information being shared, the social aspect of the hobby etc. Theft, loss and just being screwed in general is always a BIG concern in this hobby.
let's just say expecting the unexpected to happen is one way i can make a plan very effective without drawing notice to myself and knowing the dark side of human nature as well as i do i can avoid things that otherwise will get me noticed
https://www.omnicoin.com/collection/colind?page=1&sort=sort&sale=1&country=0
I am of the view that those who want a product/service should be the ones to pay for it and that their desire for such is not an obligation to provide it to be placed on others.
If that’s the case, then people shouldn’t be lamenting the loss of customer service at banks.
When the highest end collectors and dealers are the only ones that can afford to not only buy coins, but secure them safely, and then when that results in a loss to the hobby as a whole down the road, you all have no one to blame but yourselves.
Yes lol! When the lady goes to pull the box out for me and she glances over with a weird look and says, "I'm going to let you get this. It seems very heavy."
So you want the government to get into the SDB business to help coin collectors?
I'd prefer that the government focus taking the criminal element out of the equation.
BTW, lots and lots of non "highest end collectors and dealers" are willing and able to provide their own security.
WOW: one of my boxes is 6 x 10 and I can barely lift it. What bank offers a 15 x 20 for $100.
Ricko:
How about sharing some of your security systems with us? Or are these trade secrets? I'm sure many members would appreciate ideas on enhancing security. Might be the subject of a different thread, however.
Just a thought.
I'm not complaining about lack of customer service, just stating that people who want a service should expect to pay for it. Since banks are eliminating SDBs, it's pretty clear whatever they're currently charging isn't covering the actual costs and that those banks don't expect that they could charge enough to do so.
Banks are not responsible for supporting coin collectors or the hobby in general.
It would benefit more than just coin collectors, there’s other valuables that get stored in SDB’s. The government is in the numismatic business already and doesn’t make a whole lot of profit doing it. They also have public material designed to encourage coin collecting and they take the time to talk to hobbyists, show up to coin shows, give interviews to hobby publications etc. If the US Mint was bent on making the same proportion of profit that banks do, there wouldn’t be much numismatic products to choose from, if you’re lucky to have any. You might have coins straight out of circulation and that’s it. You have that situation, nice modern coins would be even HARDER to find than they are today, Cladking has already been sound the alarm on modern clad coins. Think 1965-1967 with SMS sets if you’re lucky.
Part of taking the criminal element out is also prevention strategies. More secure safe deposit boxes, equals less opportunities to burglarize homes, businesses etc. Less opportunities to burglarize homes, businesses, etc. allows law enforcement to focus resources elsewhere.
Providing one’s own security is also dependent on state and local regulations. Not every state is Florida.
@Glen2022... I have mentioned them in the past here. Motion activated lights- external and internal, alarms also tied to police, secure doors, dogs, large super secure safe, secured to concrete. Skilled Firearm Instructor with trained wife, cameras.... and a couple of surprises I will not discuss. Cheers, RickO
You might be onto something here. Perhaps the government could require everybody to collect coins and to store them in government facilities. They'd make a ton of money doing that.