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Boston University study: 92% of ex-NFL players had CTE

galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 9, 2023 10:51PM in Sports Talk

345 out of 376. for those keeping score at home, that's almost every brain they examined. and yes, they intentionally released their findings this week. like the article below states, it's amazing how complacent we get.

all of these supposed improvements in helmets and tweaks to the rules over the years in order to better protect players...............can you say fruitless? and it's only going to get worse moving forward, because there's nothing you can do to combat bigger, stronger and faster.

in a few short days, countless millions are going to be gorging, imbibing and rejoicing like there's no tomorrow.........while witnessing a brain-shredding spectacle. that's the truth of the matter.

i don't have kids of my own, but i guarantee you there's one sport they would be prohibited from playing if i did.

this is truly frightening stuff.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-02-cte-brain-disease-ex-nfl-players.html

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    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,495 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What about boxing and MMA?

    Everyone is so focused on the NFL and CTE to the point of what?

    The only answer for all the people out there that are stressing about it is to shut the league down, try doing that and the absolute pandemonium that would follow would be biblical, players are adults and make their own decisions, it's great that the info is out there but the bottom line is adults are capable of making their own decisions and it's their right to chose to play if given the opportunity.

    Joining the military is more dangerous, being an emergency service worker is as well, helI I was a Corrections Officer for 20 years and I put my life on the line every day I walked into a housing unit with 120 felons, I made that choice because of the money and benefits, nobody forced me to do it.

    Again the NFL is not a game, its a billion dollar industry,

    If they are so concerned about CTE then shut down all the pop warner, high school and college football leagues.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree Perk. people need to remember, no one is being forced to play. The draft is voluntary. players can quit at any time.

    And yes there are many other professions that are more dangerous than football.

    there are things that can be done to lower the risk of CTE. there are many rule changes that can slow the game down. it is, as far as i know, the fast violent collisions that are causing this.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i can almost guarantee you guys that if there is a profession out there that has a 92% chance of your brain suffering a debilitating injury that will affect you for the rest of your life, it's talked about more than once in a blue moon. that's what personally bothers me the most -- the complacency. discuss the dangers once, then set it aside until Tua Tagovailoa turns into a vegetable right before our very eyes or Damar Hamlin literally dies on the field before being brought back to life.

    idk about any of you, but if that happened in my profession it wouldn't be discussed in passing and then buried until the next unfortunate incident happened. it would be an extremely big deal and it would never be forgotten about. but this is old hat with the NFL, and that's what i personally have a problem with. we as football fans have become so desensitized to what is happening to these dudes.

    and an even bigger problem i have is that the league itself is seemingly even more desensitized. the NFL emits such a filthy vibe. just the other day i read about 10 more players suing the league over denied disability benefits. you're generating revenue for us? fantastic, we care.........to an extent. you're no longer playing? here's a smidgen of help from our money trove.........now go fend for yourself. in many ways no different from any other profession, except in most every other profession you have a better than 8% chance of your brain functioning normally once you stop working.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    i can almost guarantee you guys that if there is a profession out there that has a 92% chance of your brain suffering a debilitating injury that will affect you for the rest of your life, it's talked about more than once in a blue moon. that's what personally bothers me the most -- the complacency. discuss the dangers once, then set it aside until Tua Tagovailoa turns into a vegetable right before our very eyes or Damar Hamlin literally dies on the field before being brought back to life.

    idk about any of you, but if that happened in my profession it wouldn't be discussed in passing and then buried until the next unfortunate incident happened. it would be an extremely big deal and it would never be forgotten about. but this is old hat with the NFL, and that's what i personally have a problem with. we as football fans have become so desensitized to what is happening to these dudes.

    and an even bigger problem i have is that the league itself is seemingly even more desensitized. the NFL emits such a filthy vibe. just the other day i read about 10 more players suing the league over denied disability benefits. you're generating revenue for us? fantastic, we care.........to an extent. you're no longer playing? here's a smidgen of help from our money trove.........now go fend for yourself. in many ways no different from any other profession, except in most every other profession you have a better than 8% chance of your brain functioning normally once you stop working.

    do you actually think NFL players do not know about CTE and its risks? Do you think it is not talked about in locker rooms and training rooms etc?

    again, no one is being compelled to play in the NFL. not one player. They all know it is a very risky game. They choose to risk it and reap the huge financial and social rewards.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 this has not one thing to do with whether or not i think NFL players are cognizant of CTE and its risks. you completely missed the gist of my post.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    @craig44 this has not one thing to do with whether or not i think NFL players are cognizant of CTE and its risks. you completely missed the gist of my post.

    care to fill me in on your "gist" then? are you talking about disability benefits? I was addressing the title of your post

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2023 8:56AM

    @craig44

    i feel like i adequately filled you in already. it's the complacent vibe surrounding such a serious, and very real, situation. read the article i linked. medical professionals intentionally unveiled their findings days before the SB for this very reason.

    if you think 1 out of 100 NFL conversations is sufficient where this topic is concerned, so be it. i personally do not think it is.

    edit: good thing we don't have doctors who find it pointless to convey this type of information because everyone is already aware of the inherent risks.

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    HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2023 9:29AM

    @galaxy27 said:

    i don't have kids of my own, but i guarantee you there's one sport they would be prohibited from playing if i did.

    this is truly frightening stuff.

    Agree 100%. When two of my sons were in High school the football coach kept trying to get them to play on the team. I was a very, very lax sort of parent. I let them do basically whatever they wanted to do. They never got into any trouble......But on this one? Playing football? The answer was NO! I called the football coach and told him to leave my kids alone. Problem solved.

    To add: I was on a football team once. One day at practice the head coach called everyone over for a little chat. He took the helmet off one of the guys. A defensive lineman named Ralph. The coach held up the helmet Our helmets were red. The team we played in the last game wore yellow helmets. Ralph's red helmet was covered with streaks of yellow paint. The coach said, "That's the way football should be played! I want to see more of this. Everyone needs to play like Ralph!"........ What an idiotic maniac!......the coach that is.....and probably Ralph too later on in life.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2023 9:12AM

    @galaxy27 said:
    @craig44

    i feel like i adequately filled you in already. it's the complacent vibe surrounding such a serious, and very real, situation. read the article i linked. medical professionals intentionally unveiled their findings days before the SB for this very reason.

    if you think 1 out of 100 NFL conversations is sufficient where this topic is concerned, so be it. i personally do not think it is.

    edit: good thing we don't have doctors who find it pointless to convey this type of information because everyone is already aware of the inherent risks.

    So who do you think are being complacent? The fans? The league? the players? the doctors?

    Do you think people are not "aware" enough of the problem? If that is it, I would disagree. strongly.

    CTE has been all over the news. Books have been written. Talk shows have talked about it. Movies have been made about it. Big, Hollywood Movies. Advances in helmet technology have been made. Rule changes have been made. Where is the complacency?

    Look, EVERYONE knows that Cigarette smoking can/will cause cancer/death. EVERYONE. There are signs, Television ads, warning labels etc. yet 31 million Americans still CHOOSE to smoke. Are people too complacent about smoking? Or do they have the freedom to CHOOSE to smoke and accept the serious risks involved?

    People know about CTE. they know the risks. Who is being complacent? Players CHOOSE to play. Fans CHOOSE to watch.

    should we outlaw the NFL and tackle football?

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    should we outlaw the NFL and tackle football?

    I don't think it should be outlawed, but I wouldn't be surprised if a some point high school football basically goes the way of the donosaurs.. extinct... Because of high insurance costs, injury lawsuits, and worried moms, etc.

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    AFLfanAFLfan Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still feel that players would be safer if the amount of padding the players wore was decreased and helmets were more or a modern leather style. I think it would naturally promote more form tackling and less of someone being brought down simply by collision. I'm no doctor. I write about trading cards for a living, so what the hell do I know? But it seems to me that bigger/better pads translate into greater fearlessness and bigger collisions. But again, big collisions get fans excited, which ultimately leads to greater revenue for the NFL, so...

    Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
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    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,495 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I feel the information is widely out there, maybe have players sign a contract with language that they passed and clearly understand the risks associated with playing Football?

    The language is out there for smokers yet millions of people cheerfully light up every day.

    I guarantee that the amount of players not signing off on the risks would be less than 1%

    Talk about it as much as you want, players know the risks and chose to play.

    That's the bottom line

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    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,495 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AFLfan said:
    I still feel that players would be safer if the amount of padding the players wore was decreased and helmets were more or a modern leather style. I think it would naturally promote more form tackling and less of someone being brought down simply by collision. I'm no doctor. I write about trading cards for a living, so what the hell do I know? But it seems to me that bigger/better pads translate into greater fearlessness and bigger collisions. But again, big collisions get fans excited, which ultimately leads to greater revenue for the NFL, so...

    The bigger problem is the players themselves don't like to tackle, they try to hit as fast and hard as they can and do their personal happy jig after, they do it to themselves

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    AFLfanAFLfan Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with that, but if they don't have the padding to keep themselves from getting hurt in these collisions, then we might see them less infrequently.

    Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
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    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,495 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AFLfan said:
    I agree with that, but if they don't have the padding to keep themselves from getting hurt in these collisions, then we might see them less infrequently.

    Possibly, but with the speed and weight of these guys it's inevitable that in some if not most cases these guys would still take a pounding

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the speed and big hits are the exact reason for the evolution of padding in football. It was a problem from the beginning and that is why leather-padded helmets were developed. then they moved to plastic and the ones we have today.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2023 10:59AM

    When I played high school football I was taught to never use your head (helmet) while making a tackle, blocking, etc. Never. That's what shoulder pads are for. Worked for me.

    I know this sounds extreme, but if it were up to me, A player would be ejected from the game for flagrant helmet to helmet contact. I would even go so far as a lifetime ban. Do that a couple of times and I guarantee that the problem would be solved. I feel very strongly about this issue.

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    AFLfanAFLfan Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is no way to completely avoid injuries. My thoughts are based on watching my son play rugby for a year in high school. The rugby season immediately followed the football season at his school. He played both that year and I was 10x more impressed with how the rugby coaches taught the boys to tackle. Good form tackling, going for the legs, wrapping up. There were still injuries, and likely some concussions, but the massive collisions were for the most part removed. The defensive player couldn't/wouldn't go for a massive collision because they weren't as effective, they'd been taught better, and they weren't padded so they also would be hurt in the collision.

    Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
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    galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2023 12:57PM

    @craig44 said:

    @galaxy27 said:
    @craig44

    i feel like i adequately filled you in already. it's the complacent vibe surrounding such a serious, and very real, situation. read the article i linked. medical professionals intentionally unveiled their findings days before the SB for this very reason.

    if you think 1 out of 100 NFL conversations is sufficient where this topic is concerned, so be it. i personally do not think it is.

    edit: good thing we don't have doctors who find it pointless to convey this type of information because everyone is already aware of the inherent risks.

    So who do you think are being complacent? The fans? The league? the players? the doctors?

    Do you think people are not "aware" enough of the problem? If that is it, I would disagree. strongly.

    CTE has been all over the news. Books have been written. Talk shows have talked about it. Movies have been made about it. Big, Hollywood Movies. Advances in helmet technology have been made. Rule changes have been made. Where is the complacency?

    Look, EVERYONE knows that Cigarette smoking can/will cause cancer/death. EVERYONE. There are signs, Television ads, warning labels etc. yet 31 million Americans still CHOOSE to smoke. Are people too complacent about smoking? Or do they have the freedom to CHOOSE to smoke and accept the serious risks involved?

    People know about CTE. they know the risks. Who is being complacent? Players CHOOSE to play. Fans CHOOSE to watch.

    should we outlaw the NFL and tackle football?

    i formulated my opinion about this long ago. nothing that you or anyone else says will change it. i just so happened to stumble across this article and after reading it i thought to myself, "not only is that on point, but it isn't mentioned nearly enough."

    just curious, did you take time to do the same? if not, you should. it's very informative. if you did, did you happen to take note of the comments made by the director of Boston University's CTE Center and chief of neuropathology at VA Boston Healthcare System? she said, and i quote, "it's a reminder of how we've become complacent. the NFL hasn't done anything substantial to prevent CTE or diagnose CTE, the risk is still there. the risk is high. that's why we released it this week."

    three questions for you.

    1) does that sound like someone who thinks there is sufficient awareness?

    2) does that sound like someone who believes that the NFL has done enough to mitigate the risk?

    3) do you know more than she does?

    you're entitled to your opinion, just as i am. you think this subject is broached enough as is; i do not. you think the NFL is doing yeoman's work in reducing the risk involved; i do not, and furthermore i think it's an effort in futility. call me crazy, but any activity that leaves you with an 8% chance of retaining full brain function upon completion needs to be brought to the forefront more often than roughly 1 conversation out of 100. that's just me.

    it's kinda like that time i got pulled over by a cop when i unwittingly failed to utilize my seat belt. boy i wish you had been around at the time so you could gotten me out of a $150 reminder. "what's the purpose of doing that? he already knew the risks involved!"

    this bears repeating...............it's a good thing we don't have doctors who find it pointless to convey this type of critical information just because everyone is already aware of the inherent risks.

  • Options
    perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2023 4:30PM

    @galaxy27

    We might have different opinions but I just want say I value your input here, it would be awesome to sit down with you and share a 30 pack while diving right into many a discussion 🍻

  • Options
    galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @galaxy27

    We might have different opinions but I just want say I value your input here, it would be awesome to sit down with you and share a 30 pack while diving right into many a discussion 🍻

    one of these days bro!

  • Options
    TabeTabe Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:

    @craig44 said:

    @galaxy27 said:
    @craig44

    i feel like i adequately filled you in already. it's the complacent vibe surrounding such a serious, and very real, situation. read the article i linked. medical professionals intentionally unveiled their findings days before the SB for this very reason.

    if you think 1 out of 100 NFL conversations is sufficient where this topic is concerned, so be it. i personally do not think it is.

    edit: good thing we don't have doctors who find it pointless to convey this type of information because everyone is already aware of the inherent risks.

    So who do you think are being complacent? The fans? The league? the players? the doctors?

    Do you think people are not "aware" enough of the problem? If that is it, I would disagree. strongly.

    CTE has been all over the news. Books have been written. Talk shows have talked about it. Movies have been made about it. Big, Hollywood Movies. Advances in helmet technology have been made. Rule changes have been made. Where is the complacency?

    Look, EVERYONE knows that Cigarette smoking can/will cause cancer/death. EVERYONE. There are signs, Television ads, warning labels etc. yet 31 million Americans still CHOOSE to smoke. Are people too complacent about smoking? Or do they have the freedom to CHOOSE to smoke and accept the serious risks involved?

    People know about CTE. they know the risks. Who is being complacent? Players CHOOSE to play. Fans CHOOSE to watch.

    should we outlaw the NFL and tackle football?

    i formulated my opinion about this long ago. nothing that you or anyone else says will change it. i just so happened to stumble across this article and after reading it i thought to myself, "not only is that on point, but it isn't mentioned nearly enough."

    just curious, did you take time to do the same? if not, you should. it's very informative. if you did, did you happen to take note of the comments made by the director of Boston University's CTE Center and chief of neuropathology at VA Boston Healthcare System? she said, and i quote, "it's a reminder of how we've become complacent. the NFL hasn't done anything substantial to prevent CTE or diagnose CTE, the risk is still there. the risk is high. that's why we released it this week."

    three questions for you.

    1) does that sound like someone who thinks there is sufficient awareness?

    2) does that sound like someone who believes that the NFL has done enough to mitigate the risk?

    3) do you know more than she does?

    you're entitled to your opinion, just as i am. you think this subject is broached enough as is; i do not. you think the NFL is doing yeoman's work in reducing the risk involved; i do not, and furthermore i think it's an effort in futility. call me crazy, but any activity that leaves you with an 8% chance of retaining full brain function upon completion needs to be brought to the forefront more often than roughly 1 conversation out of 100. that's just me.

    it's kinda like that time i got pulled over by a cop when i unwittingly failed to utilize my seat belt. boy i wish you had been around at the time so you could gotten me out of a $150 reminder. "what's the purpose of doing that? he already knew the risks involved!"

    this bears repeating...............it's a good thing we don't have doctors who find it pointless to convey this type of critical information just because everyone is already aware of the inherent risks.

    I generally agree with your points. I say that as someone who loves football and coached high school football. That said...

    1) I have no idea why the doctor would blame the NFL for not doing more to diagnose CTE. There is literally no way to diagnose it in living people. This is a dumb critique of the NFL.

    2) It's misleading to say 92% of former players have CTE. The results cited are due to self-selection bias. You have to volunteer to be tested and the ones volunteering already think they have it.

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