Mule Die Clash Coin
GPasAttic
Posts: 49 ✭
in Q & A Forum
Hello!
I have found a 1980 D/D 1¢ LM coin that has clearly been Mule-Die-Clashed with the Rev of a 10¢ Roosevelt dime (numerous strikes) on the Obv. showing the torch, flames, olive leafs, & acorn leafs.
1) Would anyone know what the asking price for something like this is? 2) I understand that it needs to be "attributed" by someone re: fake. But is this what they do if you just grade it? Or is this the general rule of thumb: attribute, then grade (both)????
0
Comments
Please show a full coin photo.
Sure...
When I filtered your photo I just can't see it. Just my opinion.
Pictures need to be clearer, but from these, I don't see anything out of the ordinary.
I'm not sure how to make the pics clearer, but I went to library and blew up the sections of each, if that helps. I know for absolute certain it's a dime clash, I'm just wondering if anyone knows of this. Does that make sense? Sorry, new kid on block🤪
So first pic 507.9k here, below, clearly has all 3 Reverse side of dime items, clashed (in-side-out or flipped) from ear (NNW) across Abes face, obviously with torch in middle, ACORNS to the left (sw) and Olives to the right (ne)
@GPasAttic "I know for absolute certain it's a dime clash"
Statements like this are generally a big red flag coming from new collectors here on the forum.
It means you have already made up your mind and no matter what you are told you will not accept it.
I would like to try to help you without offending you or discouraging you from the hobby.
Let's start here
Is there any chance a dime impacted your coin and left an impression on it?
Do you know how rare mule die clashes are?
Have you checked this site and read about mule die clashes?
http://www.maddieclashes.com/mule-die-clashes/
If I am understanding you correctly you are saying there are 3 clashes from the reverse of a dime.
One clash would be very rare, do you realize how rare it would be to have multiple clashes?
There is only one known mule die clash on modern coinage.
If you look at the other examples you will see how they show much better than what you are showing.
I realize coins are hard to photograph but without better photos it is hard to say what you are seeing.
There are plenty of people here in this site that are willing to help you learn, just keep an open mind.
I am not seeing what you are showing as a mule die clash.
Edited to add: Thanks for the extra effort to provide additional photos.
I hate to see anyone throw money away, but the only way a coin like this would be accepted as what you think it is would be to have it attributed by PCGS. I am not recommending it, as I feel there is no chance that it is a mule clash, and it would be money wasted.
Now it wants to work !!!
Could not show this that night .
Ifthevamzarockin,
No offense taken a at all😊 I dearly appreciate your help and guidance. I fear my pics are not very good bcuz of my crappy phone, but through my microscope, it is clear as day. So I take my pics, thru my camera, looking thru micro.
And no I haven't read much on Mule Clashes, but I have shown 3 others the coin in person, and they all said to have it attributed. I hadn't even heard of Mule Clash before someone told me🥴
So that was one of my questions re: attributions. I didn't know if that is a trust worthy thing to send your coins away to someone. And can any company or person do that? I know PCGS, but they seem horribly busy. Any others that can do it?
Icutler,
Thank you for your help😊
"I didn't know if that is a trust worthy thing to send your coins away to someone."
"And can any company or person do that?"
You could try the contact form on the mad die clash site and wait for a reply.
http://www.maddieclashes.com/contact/
Oh gosh. Thank you so much for your information and help😊 I'll keep you posted...
Note: the above are pics, but loaded weird. The first pic (#3901) is the "fitted overlay"; the 2nd (#8019) is the "overlay" to the south of the "Clash pic/strike"
Ifthevamz...
Ok, so I'm trying this on you. I'm not sure if it's still called a CLASH if the Rev. dime image is not inverted(backward/flipped over), but I can "overlay" the dime image to match the 3 deepest strikes on the Obv. of the Lincoln cent. Hope that makes sense. I will post you a pic, but I'm sure it will be crummy to your view. But I did get a "digital microscope camera" , but not sure how to run it yet. But I'll give it a whirl anyway. Obviously not being a coin guru🤪 (yet) I'm only learning so thank you so very much for your help and patience! If it turns out well, then we'll deal with that bridge then😊
Any help at all??
The image you posted looks like the torch is fairly small compared to the cent it is on.
In other words the torch appears smaller than it would be on a dime.
Sorry if I am not seeing it right.
No the black & white torch is exactly taken from a 1980 dime. In pic 2, It is intentionally placed offset to the southwest of the torch struck on the penny so you can see the torch marks. The first pic is the torch overlayed on the penny torch strike.😊
A dime & a penny are close to the same size, the torch would be larger than what you are showing.
In other words I should be able to see the rims on the penny.
It appears the penny photo is enlarged.
You are showing fields around the torch that would not be that distance from the rims.
I agree with ifthevamzarockin, you are showing the entire torch and leaves fitting in the field area of the cent, this would be impossible.
Oh yes, you are correct. I'm sorry I didn't understand. They are enlarged so you could see the strikes on the penny; bcuz you couldn't see anything on the blurry pics I took before. I'm anxious to upload to you a new pic with a digital-scope. I'm praying it's clear bcuz it wasn't very cheap! (Or I'm sure you guys are laughing..."it's operator error all around!") So I apologize, but I thank you for sticking with me. I know I'm new, and I don't know a lot, and I definitely don't know any about this error, but I do know what I can see. Does that make sense? So now I just need to learn photography as well.
No one is laughing at you.
We know you are new and just trying to help you.
We are here to help when you get more photos uploaded.
Hi...vamzarockin,
Ok so here are the best pics I can do without it being in your hand Per SE.
Not only can I see the torch, flames, and acorn leaves, but for other humans quickly saw the same things (and no I didn't cheat and tell them).
So you have to be able to see what I am seeing at the very least. I had someone take better pics that can show more🙂 So I'm hoping you see the same🤞
Susan
The flames>torches start from left (NW) (hair area) to right (SW) (across face). There ARE numerous strikes beyond that, but those are the most easily detected designs. If you look to the north, you will see the acorn leaves abundantly, and easy to line up with the strikes. Beyond that, looking more closely, you can see the "inside" acorn and I believe lettering to the further SW on face.
Let me know please🙂
I can even do the proper layout with the same magnification layovers (but not see thru, just my cut outs).😊
I can also send you the original pic as to why I thought a dime or quarter had clashed with this 1980D 1¢, enlarged pic, if it helps you. Thank you for your help again in advance.
Hi Susan,
Thanks for the new photos.
I am not seeing anything that would indicate a clash, sorry.
"I can even do the proper layout with the same magnification layovers (but not see thru, just my cut outs)."
If you think it will help.
Do you see any of the same marks in this photo?
I am just not seeing anything like what you are describing.
In the coin you sent, I don't see any of the flames, torch, or leaves from a dime. Are they on his face? Or jacket like mine?
I honestly can't NOT look at my picture and see all of the torches. The band and the vertical lines are there. You can even see the perfect out -line of the flames (RDV-002) and the groves in the flames. I swear🤞🙏 Everyone I have shown the coin to can see it as well. Otherwise, you would make me think I'm going crazy 🤪
So I will show you a few more pics with the layover... And then, hopefully you will be able to see it. I'm actually so very anxious for you to see it, no matter what now! Granted, I am an old and crusty 50yr, and may not know much, but I can only tell you what I see🤣🤣 And I dearly appreciate your assistance. So here we go🤞🤞🤞
Ok, no laughing (but giggling is okay 😉) lol but I'm going to try something here. Give me a few😁 And how come your picture is so big and pretty? Apparently your not using the same crummy phone camera huh?
I have a suggestion.
You seem very intrigued (I'm guessing) with coin collecting and the research required.
So, walk away from this chapter, but save the coin.
As you move on something may pop up supporting that chapter in your research. Then document it's out come.
In other words, relax.
Slow and steady will enable more giggles.
Remember this. We can always use a theory.
Awe... Bless your heart. Unfortunately, I'm not that person. Lol Relax and my name aren't hand in hand.
However, I'm going to give you one last chance to be my knight in shining armor and hero😁 Otherwise, I guess I will just send it in to...hmmm? Someone. I think everyone known, is our has retired darn it! But believe it or not, I've been researching mainly 10 of 5,000 coins I have to go thru (my gpa and dad left me) and I can't just stop something. So here it is:
I'm going to post the "most" obvious strike with layout, then the plain pic that got me thinking. Lol So I'm saying, if you can't see this, I'm sending you to the eye doctor🤣🤣🤣 Bcuz, I have an even harder coin after this??🤪🤪🤯🔫 And I really would love your expertise😁 So here's the last attempt, to you, on the mule strike clash thingy😊😁
The strongest (in my eyes) or most obvious with the layover to get your eyes prepped 😁
Now naked or raw...
For it to be there it would have to be an off center clash.
"I'm sending you to the eye doctor"
Let me know when my appointment is.
Don't say it..... Only say
FINALLY!! YOU SEE IT! 🤣
Bcuz I have many many more that I want to make sure of, like this 1947 S Rev Die Clash. Someone said it's called a "ghost" clash? Idk... But you can see this with the naked eye. It's like a dark silhouette of Abe over reverse
Bcuz I need to sell um and I don't want to look totally stupid 🤪 (I know too late) 🤣 But.... Here I am trying
So many, so many coins to go thru. And my downfall is actually doubling. 🤯🔫Uggg
Oh and you may be proud of me, but I believe I found more info and a better pic on the 1983 D/?? I thought may be a "9" ... But I have a new pic and better outline. I researched the MMV for 1983.... It makes more sense (at least to me)
I like it (47 S)
Looks pressure sensitive in the reverse image. Also very clean, hope your wearing gloves.
See, moving on suite's you.
Try this.... Take the 47 S and start a new thread so other's can guide you.
Progressive Indirect Design Transfer is what you are seeing on your 1947 S.
https://www.error-ref.com/progressive-indirect-design-transfer/
Oh, like a bumper sticker.
Sorry, never mind.
Meanwhile, back at the sandbox...........
@GPasAttic I understand if you don't like me anymore.
What?? I couldn't even tell you ANYONE I don't like. If your too uptight, then life isn't fun. And who wants a life with no fun????? BORING! I came in kicking and screaming and laughing, hope to go out the same way🤣😁🤣😁
So, VAMZAROCKIN, you didn't answer me?? Am I sending you to eye doc??? Whose that one super hero that can see a lot of stuff with his eye (s)????
"So, VAMZAROCKIN, you didn't answer me?? Am I sending you to eye doc???"
Yep. that's why I asked when my appointment is.
And EmeraldATV... (One of my fav gems😊) thank you, I think. I have no idea if that means it's a CLASH or not. And um, yeah, sure, Of course I am with um gloveage🙄 I didn't know, and I don't normally touch um. Is that good? Bcuz I do have a 1956 D1¢ that never left the case its in. I looked on PGCS site, and I feel it's prettier, nicer than thier's. What do you think! So I will wear gloves if I touch a coin?? I have them.
So you guys own this site? You seem to be the master minds all over the place😁 Wonderful! Yahtzee🤣🤣
Hey Vamz.... Maybe Emerald could take a peek at my beautiful artwork of a YEAR 1/2🤣 maybe???? See something you don't???🤔
I'm sure emerald can see something I don't.
He won't share his hallucinogens' with me.
