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Should this have recieved a straight grade?

erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

Looking at this coin and it appears to a fairly significant staple scratch. Should it have been flagged as a problem?

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From that image, I don't care for the scratch at all. I wonder if it kind of disappears from other angles? If so, perhaps it was missed or considered "just good enough".

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    bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,778 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like part scratch and part scuff. I agree with @TomB , different lighting may show it more or less.

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see several die cracks on that coin, could that be one?
    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree that it appears to be more of a scuff than a scratch. I don't feel like its severe enough to condemn the coin, so my answer to your question is "yes"

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If a coin is otherwise really nice, a gem, would it really be fair to no grade it for a defect like that in a non grade sensitive area?

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    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2023 9:22AM

    Hmmm.....No.

    Edited to remove opinion on grade since it is irrelevant to the thread question posed.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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    keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,456 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My thoughts:

    The coin would not be for me.
    If it was me submitting that coin, with my luck, it would be in a genuine holder.
    I have seen top pop coins that have terrible marks on them and should be multiple grades lower...but they are not.
    I have seen worse graded...how about a $5.5 Million Damaged Coin in a Straight Graded Holder?

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So that obv scratch at K12 is a problem for me. Thanks for sharing. Good luck.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    no, its not for me, jmo

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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Like many said, looks more like a graze than a scratch. having not seen it in hand, I will default to the grade it was given. If it is a graze, then it kept it from the 66 grade it might get otherwise. All this based on a TV image, of course.


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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think that's a scratch.

    Have you seen the coin in hand?

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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,151 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    I see several die cracks on that coin, could that be one?
    bob :)

    There are die cracks but the scratch is at 12:00 on the obverse.

    If you look at the coin without magnification the scratch is barely visible. Under 3x magnification it becomes very visible. For some folks it could be a major distraction.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pmh1nic said:

    @AUandAG said:
    I see several die cracks on that coin, could that be one?
    bob :)

    There are die cracks but the scratch is at 12:00 on the obverse.

    If you look at the coin without magnification the scratch is barely visible. Under 3x magnification it becomes very visible. For some folks it could be a major distraction.

    Have you seen the coin in hand?

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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,151 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @pmh1nic said:

    @AUandAG said:
    I see several die cracks on that coin, could that be one?
    bob :)

    There are die cracks but the scratch is at 12:00 on the obverse.

    If you look at the coin without magnification the scratch is barely visible. Under 3x magnification it becomes very visible. For some folks it could be a major distraction.

    Have you seen the coin in hand?

    No. I’m going by the picture posted.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2023 1:28PM

    Absolutely don’t like it.

    Just get rid of it if you own it. Pass if not.

    Either way I would pass on the coin so moot issue for me. Do you think they downgraded it because of the problem? Many times show customers will come up to my table trying dump their low end trash. I simply pass. Then sometimes they will go down bourse table after table and that dealer either pass or just low ball heck out of them.

    It wb tough sell off the bourse - auction where start it next to nothing would probably work best. A problem coin dealer specialist might pick it up if super buy for him and Price it about 60 pct CW Trends. If even that much.

    Try buy problem free coins attractive and PQ. Problem, low end coins tough sell. Offers at sell time will be low, severely discounted.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    From that image, I don't care for the scratch at all. I wonder if it kind of disappears from other angles? If so, perhaps it was missed or considered "just good enough".

    Nothing is EVER missed on coins I send in. LOL!! :D

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    DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, it should have not received a straight grade IMO.

    When in doubt, don't.
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    OmegaraptorOmegaraptor Posts: 528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keyman64 said:
    My thoughts:

    The coin would not be for me.
    If it was me submitting that coin, with my luck, it would be in a genuine holder.
    I have seen top pop coins that have terrible marks on them and should be multiple grades lower...but they are not.
    I have seen worse graded...how about a $5.5 Million Damaged Coin in a Straight Graded Holder?

    When an average soccer player handballs they get a yellow card. When Messi did it against the Netherlands this World Cup...

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    124Spider124Spider Posts: 848 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2023 1:50PM

    I'll use this thread to reiterate a pet peeve of mine--putting nice coins in a body bag because of someone's dislike for a particular flaw.

    The scratch is evident; anyone considering buying it would see it, and react however they feel is appropriate. I don't understand why Big Brother has to kill an otherwise-nice coin, because of an evident, relatively minor, flaw.

    I understand bagging a coin that has been badly cleaned (although I don't understand killing a coin that only an expert would know had been cleaned, and looks nice).

    Fundamentally, I feel that the market should decide how much a coin with evident flaws is worth, not the TPGs; and killing a coin with a "details" grade is the TPGs way of ensuring that that coin is dead. I have seen coins I like that are "details" graded, so I won't touch them (I have no idea how to value such a coin, and I don't like spending real money on a coin whose real market value is difficult to determine).

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't like it in the TV, but I would have to see the coin in hand to say for sure. If that is indeed a scratch then I would not accept it as a straight graded coin. But if more of a graze then it could be ok, maybe.

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dare I ask… Did it sticker?

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    Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes. I've seen much worse in straight PCGS plastic.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
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    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,605 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @124Spider said:
    I'll use this thread to reiterate a pet peeve of mine--putting nice coins in a body bag because of someone's dislike for a particular flaw.

    The scratch is evident; anyone considering buying it would see it, and react however they feel is appropriate. I don't understand why Big Brother has to kill an otherwise-nice coin, because of an evident, relatively minor, flaw.

    I understand bagging a coin that has been badly cleaned (although I don't understand killing a coin that only an expert would know had been cleaned, and looks nice).

    Fundamentally, I feel that the market should decide how much a coin with evident flaws is worth, not the TPGs; and killing a coin with a "details" grade is the TPGs way of ensuring that that coin is dead. I have seen coins I like that are "details" graded, so I won't touch them (I have no idea how to value such a coin, and I don't like spending real money on a coin whose real market value is difficult to determine).

    Then I suppose you would support a net grade instead?

    Or do you feel the 65 given is warranted?

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ve seen quite a bit of surprising scratches in straight graded holders from both companies, I guess it all depends on the severity of the scratch…

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erwindoc said:
    Looking at this coin and it appears to a fairly significant staple scratch.

    Are you looking at the coin or a picture of the coin?

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    124Spider124Spider Posts: 848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:

    @124Spider said:
    I'll use this thread to reiterate a pet peeve of mine--putting nice coins in a body bag because of someone's dislike for a particular flaw.

    The scratch is evident; anyone considering buying it would see it, and react however they feel is appropriate. I don't understand why Big Brother has to kill an otherwise-nice coin, because of an evident, relatively minor, flaw.

    I understand bagging a coin that has been badly cleaned (although I don't understand killing a coin that only an expert would know had been cleaned, and looks nice).

    Fundamentally, I feel that the market should decide how much a coin with evident flaws is worth, not the TPGs; and killing a coin with a "details" grade is the TPGs way of ensuring that that coin is dead. I have seen coins I like that are "details" graded, so I won't touch them (I have no idea how to value such a coin, and I don't like spending real money on a coin whose real market value is difficult to determine).

    Then I suppose you would support a net grade instead?

    Or do you feel the 65 given is warranted?

    No, I would not support "net grading" either; it's just another form of Big Brother deciding how serious a flaw is. But that certainly would be better than reflexively putting it in a body bag for a relatively minor flaw.

    Again, my issue is that the TPGs are making a call, often very close, and very often subjective, as to whether a flaw is serious enough to send the coin to purgatory. The existence of this thread is conclusive evidence of that problem--that coin is worth far more straight-graded than it would have been with a details grade, but it easily could have received a details grade.

    Heck, I rarely see "toning" that I like, but there are lots of people who love toning (even when it becomes corrosion, IMO). That's great! Let the market decide; don't have TPGs decide that "toning" is a bad thing.

    I have no problem with a details grade for, e.g., a whizzed coin, or really bad scratches or corrosion. But I see no reason why the TPG should be pre-empting the market otherwise. The grading process already is subjective enough, but I feel that there is a very large net benefit to that system, since we all feel comfortable that the coin is genuine and that the grade is not far off. But when it really is a matter of taste (e.g., how distracting is that scratch), I think the TPG should leave it up to the market.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @124Spider said:
    But when it really is a matter of taste (e.g., how distracting is that scratch), I think the TPG should leave it up to the market.

    Lots of people want to be able to price a coin using the grade designation. That only works well when the coins assigned the same grade all look pretty much the same. The more differences introduced (distractions or flaws), the more the "grade = price" system falls apart since not everybody agrees on how much any particular flaw should affect either the value or the grade. Just look at how different people react to toning (or lack of it) when it comes to valuing coins with the same grade.

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    124Spider124Spider Posts: 848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @124Spider said:
    But when it really is a matter of taste (e.g., how distracting is that scratch), I think the TPG should leave it up to the market.

    Lots of people want to be able to price a coin using the grade designation. That only works well when the coins assigned the same grade all look pretty much the same. The more differences introduced (distractions or flaws), the more the "grade = price" system falls apart since not everybody agrees on how much any particular flaw should affect either the value or the grade. Just look at how different people react to toning (or lack of it) when it comes to valuing coins with the same grade.

    I understand the argument for letting the TPG play Big Brother for everything. I just don't agree. And your example of toning is a great example--The TPGs give toning a pass, and I'm fine with that (even though I dislike most toning); why not do the same with other minor flaws?

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @124Spider said:
    And your example of toning is a great example--The TPGs give toning a pass, and I'm fine with that (even though I dislike most toning); why not do the same with other minor flaws?

    My guess? Some people will pay more for toning. There probably aren't any who'll pay more for scratches.

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    MrBlusterMrBluster Posts: 320 ✭✭✭

    The scratch doesn’t appear to be deep. Looks more like a scuff.

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    124Spider124Spider Posts: 848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @124Spider said:
    And your example of toning is a great example--The TPGs give toning a pass, and I'm fine with that (even though I dislike most toning); why not do the same with other minor flaws?

    My guess? Some people will pay more for toning. There probably aren't any who'll pay more for scratches.

    Sure; but the point is that different people react differently to perceived flaws. So why should the TPG put a pretty nice coin in a body bag, when the market is perfectly capable of deciding how much that coin is worth?

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @124Spider said:

    @MasonG said:

    @124Spider said:
    And your example of toning is a great example--The TPGs give toning a pass, and I'm fine with that (even though I dislike most toning); why not do the same with other minor flaws?

    My guess? Some people will pay more for toning. There probably aren't any who'll pay more for scratches.

    Sure; but the point is that different people react differently to perceived flaws. So why should the TPG put a pretty nice coin in a body bag, when the market is perfectly capable of deciding how much that coin is worth?

    I don't disagree with you but a lot of people want to be able to look up the grade of a coin in a price guide and see a number that says the coin is worth $X (plenty of threads get started here criticizing sellers as being greedy for offering a coin for sale at $Y, when the guide says $X). Allowing flaws (even if noted) makes price guides more difficult to produce and understand.

    My preference would be for the grading companies to stick to grading and let the market price coins, but you don't always get what you want.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2023 4:09PM

    @pmh1nic said:

    @AUandAG said:
    I see several die cracks on that coin, could that be one?
    bob :)

    There are die cracks but the scratch is at 12:00 on the obverse.

    If you look at the coin without magnification the scratch is barely visible. Under 3x magnification it becomes very visible. For some folks it could be a major distraction.

    Sounds like it's a minor, non-fatal scratch that shows up more glaringly in the photo, so it probably deserves a grade. But just to illustrate how much of a judgment call these things are, a scratch of that magnitude might be considered fatal if it seemed intentional, easier to miss (i.e., hidden), or both. For example, place the same scratch alongside the profile (as if someone had traced the profile with a pin) and the coin would be considered an instant "no-grade".

    Andy Lustig

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    semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 931 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that the small scratch or scuff is not in a place that is so "grade-sensitive". I missed it until I read the comments. I think it should pass TPG. I agree with Andy L. above.

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    P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is my capped bust dime type coin, which has a scratch to the right of the bust, in a straight AU58 holder.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not surprised that it straight graded.

    But, that scratch would be a distraction for me.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just to be clear, I do think that the streak in question IS a distraction and I think we can all agree on that. I just don't see why that would preclude a straight grade. As others have said, I have seen much uglier and more damaged coins with a grade.

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    goldengolden Posts: 9,069 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would pass on the coin.

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