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Is this real? 1920-d TR Panama Penny

Shane6596Shane6596 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭

Stumbled on it on ebay, guy is asking close to million bucks for it.

Just wondering if this is even a real coin or if its one of those made up things. If it were real, who would spend that kinda money on ebay without checking it out.

I copied the description below:

Presented here for sale is a coin with a very interesting back story: “Teddy Roosevelt’s Panama Penny”… for your consideration.

Extremely Rare “DENVER” Wheat Ear Penny

ONE-of-a-KIND DISCOVERY COIN, PCGS authenticated MINT ERROR/1920 D penny.

Discovered 2020… One Hundred Years after it was Struck !

A TRUE ERROR…

A Colombian two centavos blank erroneously stuck in bin or mint press after centavos run… later struck as a LINCOLN WHEAT CENT… as you can see both coins share almost same dimensions… this coin however is Nickel and Copper.

😳😳😳😳😳… other than the color… the only dimensions which are different from a wheat Penny is the thickness and weight… The two centavos blank is thinner… note the weak strike especially on the reverse & wt 3.0g (probably AU condition if the dimensions were weighted stronger into consideration) *also possible test scratch… currently researching more about that possibility…😳😳😳😳😳

Note this is DENVER MINTED ERROR.

This coin has been featured on multiple UTUBE coin channels…with over 100k views 👀

Historical significance…. All 1920 Colombia 2c coins are important to the both the United States and Colombia. …mainly, WHY WERE THE COLOMBIAN COINS PRODUCED? This is the only 1920 Denver Error of this type and these centavos may have been produced to help mend our relationship with Colombia after Teddy Roosevelt’s Incursion into Panama’s revolt and separation two decades before. The result was one of the greatest achievements of man… the Panama Canal…. Treaty finally mending our relationship with Colombia signed in 1921 the year Denver stopped producing the two centavos.

SAME TYPE OF ERROR AS THE FAMOUS 1943 bronze penny which sold for $1.7 million.

In 1920 US MINT @ DENVER STRUCK ~ 50 million Lincoln Wheat cents and ~4 million Colombian two centavos… this is one out of 4 million and then one out of 50 million!!! 😎👍🏻

1920 D Lincoln Wheat Ear Cent

DENVER MINT ERROR

One of a Kind / Unique

Composition… Cu-Ni

Weight…. 3.0g

Diameter…. 19.05 mm

Thickness …. 1.3 mm

😊Thank you for looking😊

KEEP COLLECTING AND HAVE A GREAT DAY

Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23

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    Shane6596Shane6596 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Found a pic

    Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23

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    Found coin hunting a old sealed bank bag of wheat cents… had quite a few silver dimes and quarters. I was separating out the silver and any steal pennies when saw the reverse of, what I thought, was a steely … turned out to be this 1920-d.
    Had it checked for nickel … then sent it in.
    Still researching why, who and how much Colombia paid the mint to produce these.
    At the time Philadelphia produced a lot of foreign coinage … monetarily helped their bottom line. (US Mint is a self funded entity) … I believe the two centavos was produced to help, even in the slightest way, mend our relationship with Colombia.

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,936 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2023 6:48AM

    It belongs in a major error auction, not on eBay with an unrealistic price. It is not in the same category as the 1943 bronze cents. Those have benefited from 80 years of non-stop numismatic hype that has fueled their sky high prices. This coin has had no publicity build-up and has no price history as well. It belongs in a well publicized auction that will determine just how much demand there is from collectors with money. It may do well, it may not. Who knows?

    All glory is fleeting.
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting coin.... I doubt it will realize such a lofty price. Cheers, RickO

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    jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Heritage sold a nicer one about 10 years ago for under $500

    It's a well-known error type. The seller might have more luck getting someone to look past the damage outside of a major auction. Not at $1m, though, or even at $1,000. Under $500 is a much more plausible target.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,547 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wrenes said:
    Found coin hunting a old sealed bank bag of wheat cents… had quite a few silver dimes and quarters. I was separating out the silver and any steal pennies when saw the reverse of, what I thought, was a steely … turned out to be this 1920-d.
    Had it checked for nickel … then sent it in.
    Still researching why, who and how much Colombia paid the mint to produce these.
    At the time Philadelphia produced a lot of foreign coinage … monetarily helped their bottom line. (US Mint is a self funded entity) … I believe the two centavos was produced to help, even in the slightest way, mend our relationship with Colombia.

    Denver seldom struck coins for foreign nations because coins for foreign nations needed to be shipped by sea, and Philadelphia and San Francisco are major seaports. However, from February of 1920 to April of 1923 the Denver Mint's precious metals refinery was being substantially rebuilt, and with the demand for U.S. coinage falling drastically through 1920 and 1921 Denver was given an order for Copper-Nickel One and Two Centavos coins to keep them busy. They had furnaces that could melt copper and nickel ingots together without requiring the use of a refinery. It struck approximately 26.6 million One and Two Centavos pieces between October of 1920 and May of 1921. Its major production in 1921 was Morgan dollars using silver refined at a private refinery in Leadville, CO.

    Somewhere in late 1920 a Two Centavos planchet accidentally got struck as a Lincoln cent. In this condition I think that $500 is a reasonable auction estimate.

    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    wreneswrenes Posts: 10
    edited February 8, 2023 2:26AM

    TY for the additional info… is there anyway to see the contract and how much the republic of Colombia paid for these to be produced? Researching “who contacted who”. After oil reserves where discovered, we were just starting to mend our relations.
    Thank again for you input!

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    “Contract”

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    wreneswrenes Posts: 10
    edited February 8, 2023 2:30AM

    Not sure why PCGS TrueView photos are so brown… especially in the slab? … weird…the nickel color shows up a little when slab is held at an angle?

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    wreneswrenes Posts: 10
    edited February 8, 2023 2:32AM

    Oh, I have seen an old price guide… from a fantastic error seller (MB)… with about the same… I believe there is some historical significance to this “Denver” error… Hence the high price and the name. Writing somewhat of a children’s book about it. Hopefully will bring a new generation of young collectors into the hobby🤓👍🏻

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    wreneswrenes Posts: 10
    edited February 8, 2023 2:38AM

    I’ve seen similar HA … never from DENVER…the one
    Philadelphia NGC slab reads “ 1920 1C on Colombian 2c OR Argentina 10C PL” sold over ten years ago from about $400… clearly NOT possible to be on a two centavos blank…so no others, especially from Denver… there are no sales in any auctions I looked at since it was discovered in 2020.
    Phillies were produced strictly for monetary gain… I believe the Colombian coins were produced for more than a monetary reason…
    if so, all Colombian coins struck in1920 &1921 are historically significant with an incredible backstory to tell… this error can bring that story to life for new collectors. Whether it sells or not is not really of importance…
    The fanfare of the Panama Canal, a great accomplishment, was put on back burner days after it was completed due to WWI…

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2023 11:29PM

    @Shane6596 said:
    Found a pic

    Great find @Shane6596!

    Here's the link and TrueView:

    https://www.pcgs.com/cert/44261828

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    wreneswrenes Posts: 10
    edited February 8, 2023 2:42AM

    On the slab PCGS noted the scratch, did not note the thickness (or thinness) of the Colombian two centavos /1.3mm and assigned it VF DETAILS. The soft strike and appearance, in my opinion (a novice), because of its thickness, should lend itself to be a much higher details grade.
    But what’s most important is the word “GENUINE”🤓.
    (Some of the Detail XF errors selling for over $5,000 are in horrible condition…)

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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wrenes said:
    On the slab PCGS noted the scratch, did not note the thickness (or thinness) of the Colombian two centavos /1.3mm...

    There isn't room for all that text on the label. They identified the planchet, so the specifications can be researched elsewhere.

    The soft strike and appearance, in my opinion (a novice), because of its thickness, should lend itself to be a much higher details grade.

    The coin obviously has wear. Personally, I'd trust the experts. But, ultimately with a circulated error like this there is no reason to split hairs on the grade.

    (Some of the Detail XF errors selling for over $5,000 are in horrible condition…)

    Unless those other errors are this type of off-metal error, the other values are irrelevant.

    It sounds like you are caught up in the backstory of Colombian coins being minted in the US, and that's fine - learning about history is one of the benefits and opportunities involved in numismatics. However, as an off-metal/wrong-planchet error it has a general value range, which has been stated in posts above.

    It's still a great find, though.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,547 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wrenes said:
    TY for the additional info… is there anyway to see the contract and how much the republic of Colombia paid for these to be produced? Researching “who contacted who”. After oil reserves where discovered, we were just starting to mend our relations.
    Thank again for you input!

    You could file a Freedom of Information Act request for the contract information with the Treasury Dept. on the very slight chance that they still have it. Nobody in the hobby would have it because it is irrelevant.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    Thank you sir🤓👍🏻

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wrenes said:
    On the slab PCGS noted the scratch, did not note the thickness (or thinness) of the Colombian two centavos /1.3mm and assigned it VF DETAILS. The soft strike and appearance, in my opinion (a novice), because of its thickness, should lend itself to be a much higher details grade.
    But what’s most important is the word “GENUINE”🤓.
    (Some of the Detail XF errors selling for over $5,000 are in horrible condition…)

    I'd be amazed if you get anything close to $5000 for that coin in its present condition. Just put it in a well publicized auction and be happy with what it brings. It is already in a PCGS slab so the authentication is already done.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    Reviewing information about Colombia’s commission on their one and two centavos… apparently, it was incorporated as part of much larger plan by our officials to mend relations with their government at cost (guessing that means “at no profit”?)…
    This, as mentioned above, is irrelevant to the numismatic value of this error but this information will definitely be part of book I’ve started🤓👍🏻.
    Everyday I’m amazed at outpouring of interest from the numismatic community… the various coin forums online, on FB, on UTUBE and questions I receive on eBay…
    Great hobby with incredible people! I’m in awe and humbled each and everyday!
    TY🙏🏻

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