A High Grade Richard III Groat

BillJones

As I get closer to acquiring a coin from each of the British kings on my list, I have gone back and upgraded a few pieces.

Richard III ruled for only three years, from 1483 until 1485. He was the brother of Edward IV and had no right to the crown because Edward had two sons. When Edward died unexpectedly, Richard took the two boys into “protective custody” locked them away in the Tower of London. Richard made the case that they had no right to the crown because their father had been illegally married to their mother. Edward had been committed to a noble woman, but he chose a commoner instead.

A majority of people think that Richard III had the boys killed. Their bodies were buried behind an old staircase that was unearthed years later. Their bones are now buried at Westminster Abby. Some people think that Henry VII had them killed. Both kings would have had their reasons.

Other than the murders, Richard III seems to have been a decent king. He tried to reconcile the differences between the waring Lancaster and York sides and was a good administrator.

His reign was cut short when Henry VII (Tudor) challenged him. At the Battle of Bosworth, Richard charged into the line in the effort kill Henry quickly and end the rebellion. Richard was cut down instead. He would be the last British king to die on the battlefield.

Richard's body was disposed of quickly. In 2013, his bones were discovered under a parking lot in Leicester City. They confirmed that Richard had a curvature of the spine.

This is often exaggerated in Shakespeare’s Richard III where he is portrayed as a foul villain. We need to remember that Shakespeare, for all of his talents as a writer, was also a politician who wanted to be on the Tudor Family’s good side.

Richard's coins are usually found in low grade when you can find them at all. This was my first Richard III coin, a penny. This is actually a little better than average. This piece was struck at the Durham Mint under Bishop John Sherwood. That's why the coin as the big "S" under Richard's portrait. And no, this was an early rendition of Superman

And here is my recent purchase, a groat. This is graded EF-45, and it's "all there" at least by American standards. This is close to as good as it gets for most collectors when it comes to these coins.

John Conduitt

Very nice. That's a perfect upgrade. I haven't even got Richard III because it's so hard to find either a 'gap filler' that isn't a wreck (still not cheap, by the way) or a coin that's completely acceptable and doesn't cost the same as a car.

SaorAlba

Thank you for sharing your acquisition, it is no small feat to obtain a Richard III coin that nice. At one time I destined to acquire a coin of each English then British monarch, but gave up fairly quickly and just ended up sticking to Scottish coinage. Some thirty years ago it was still conjectured that coins were issued for Edward V, who was the heir to the throne allegedly condemned to death by Richard III.

SimonW

That’s such a cool write up. You’ve got me wanting one now. What would you say the price ranges are on these kinds of pieces? Low grade or something like this. I haven’t a clue.

SimonW

Nevermind, i just looked at a bent AG that was selling for over $700. 😳🤣

BillJones

Yes, the penny wasn’t cheep, and it’s lacking a fair amount of detail.

asheland

Very nice!

Nap

Nice coins Bill.
My groat and penny are somewhat lower grade, with the groat fairly clipped. They get pricey in high grade.

BillJones

I had dealer tell me that iit is not a good idea to buy clipped coins, but if the clips don’t get into the words, I don’t see much of a problem. If they are into the words, then then the price becomes the issue.

tcollects

Cool

SimonW

@BillJones , have you published or posted your “one per king” set? I’ve been slowly working on something similar (of lower quality, certainly) and would like to see what it might look like. I’m shooting for shillings where possible, but groats and pennies where needed.

BillJones

@SimonW said:
@BillJones , have you published or posted your “one per king” set? I’ve been slowly working on something similar (of lower quality, certainly) and would like to see what it might look like. I’m shooting for shillings where possible, but groats and pennies where needed.

I posted an early version of those histories here years ago. I have added to and revised it many times. Perhaps I could do it again. I can’t see enough people buying it to make it worth publication,

And yes, you are going to have scale back to pennies for kings who ruled roughly 200 years after William the Conqueror. You are also going to have to accept some low quality coins. After William the Conqueror, the quality of the coins went way down, with Stephen issuing the worst. Even worse is Matilda, but you probably won’t even get a chance to buy or bid one. I bid one up to $14,000 and didn’t get it. It was super ugly, but a “gem” for a Matilda coin.

I went back to Alfred the Great with the collection, which now has at least one coin per king for those kings who issued coins.

SimonW

@BillJones said:

@SimonW said:
@BillJones , have you published or posted your “one per king” set? I’ve been slowly working on something similar (of lower quality, certainly) and would like to see what it might look like. I’m shooting for shillings where possible, but groats and pennies where needed.

I posted an early version of those histories here years ago. I have added to and revised it many times. Perhaps I could do it again. I can’t see enough people buying it to make it worth publication,

And yes, you are going to have scale back to pennies for kings who ruled roughly 200 years after William the Conqueror. You are also going to have to accept some low quality coins. After William the Conqueror, the quality of the coins went way down, with Stephen issuing the worst. Even worse is Matilda, but you probably won’t even get a chance to buy or bid one. I bid one up to $14,000 and didn’t get it. It was super ugly, but a “gem” for a Matilda coin.

I went back to Alfred the Great with the collection, which now has at least one coin per king for those kings who issued coins.

Sounds fun! Would love to see your set sometime. I’ve got a couple shillings already, but quickly realized they’re the easiest shillings to attain. Elizabeth I and Charles I. The both have pretty complete faces, which is what I’m hoping for on the balance. I like when you can make out the face. I also have an Edward II penny, if I recall correctly. The first British piece I got. It’ll take a long time I’m sure. A back burner set for now.

BillJones

Hi @SimonW!

Sorry for the long delay, but I was out of town. Here are the pages from my notebook on Elizabeth I

Elizabeth I
Lived 1533 to 1603, Reigned 1558 to 1603

1600 Elizabeth I six pence

1600 over 1590 overdate

• Elizabeth I was one of England’s greatest monarchs. She forever put the rest the contention that a woman could not be an effective ruler of England.
• Elizabeth never married. She used her feminine wiles to play one suiter against another, but never made a formal commitment. She was the “virgin queen” who was married to her country instead of a suitor.

• Perhaps her most serious romance was with Robert Dudley. She appointed him the Earl of Leicester which was often a position given the king or the king’s son. Dudley lived in an apartment next to the queen and was the host at entertainments.
  After waiting for many years, Dudley secretly married the Countess of Essex. That angered Elizabeth, but he got back into her good graces. Later he became a lieutenant-general in the army. He would be one of the leading defenders during the Spanish invasion of 1588.

• Other suitors included Sir Christopher Hatton, Robert Devereux and Sir Walter Raleigh

• Elizabeth may have detested marriage because of the mockery her father had made of it. It must be remembered that Henry VIII had her mother, Anne Boleyn, executed.
• Elizabeth’s chief rival to the crown was Mary Stuart, who is better known as Mary Queen of Scots. Mary was the granddaughter of Henry VIII’s old sister, Margaret, which made her Elizabeth’s cousin. Mary claimed the throne because she said Elizabeth was illegitimate. According to the Catholic Church, Henry was still married to Catherine of Aragon. After a number of ineffective intrigues against Elizabeth, the queen reluctantly had Mary Queen of Scots executed.
• Elizabeth's finest hour was in 1588 when she rallied her troops to defeat the Spanish Armada. "I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman," she said, "but I have the heart and the stomach of a king and of King of England too." A well timed storm at sea, the superior design of the British ships and the battle hardened experience of their captains brought the defeat of the Armada and changed the course of world history. England became the leading European power and would spread that influence thought out the world.

• Despite her best efforts, age caught up with Elizabeth. She died at age 69 leaving no direct heir.
  The Tutor men proved incapable of fathering male offspring. Even the extended family could only sire girls. That ended their dynasty.

• Eloye Mestrelle, a French moneyer, introduced milled coinage to England in 1561. The coins, which were struck on screw press, were superior to the hammer shuck pieces. Human labor and horses powered the presses. These coins were called “mill money.”

• Mestrelle made a large number of coins, especially the six pence, early in his tenue, but the plague outbreak of 1565 shut down his operation. After he reopened, he was unable to obtain high quality tools and his operation encountered many technical problems. Frequent machinery break-downs made his processes to be slow and inefficient. Mestrelle was eased out of his job in 1572. Six years latter he was convicted of counterfeiting and hanged 1778.

Eliazabeth I Milled six pence

Elizabeth I Shilling

SimonW

@BillJones
You’ve put together a wonderful group of coins and history. I’m just occasionally dipping my toes. The first is a 1759-60 shilling, Elizabeth I, the second Charles I. I’m still researching them a bit, especially the Charles. Will send it to PCGS soon.