@MasonG said:
There are many reasons a coin may not be slabbed, not all of them bad. Since this is a PCGS message board and many who participate here collect only slabbed coins, it's not too surprising to find that raw coins are looked upon with suspicion. If the only coins you look at are in plastic because you think raw coins probably have problems that would keep them out of a holder, you'll end up with a skewed viewpoint of what actually exists in the market.
So your advice to this collector, who is just starting out, is to go out and buy a bunch of raw coins.
??? I didn't make any such recommendation.
I kind of read it that way. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
Mark you could be correct. I will adjust my thinking. In hand it's just so nice. I do intentionally try to show everything for everyone to have a good honest look. Rubs and all. I appreciate your fair response.
I will submit this coin for grading. It's the only way to know for sure.
It would be nice to have a win.
I'd be head over heels with a 65.
Just curious did you have a mentor or were you self taught?
I've had help over the years.
@ironmanl63 said:
Did you just automatically know good coins from bad or did you pay tuition like so many other collectors?
I've bought coins at one time that I might not have on another day but I won't spend a lot of money on one if I don't understand what I'm buying.
@ironmanl63 said:
Did you ever buy a raw coin for real money and pay the Piper?
No. As I said above, I'm careful with my spending. Based on comments I've read from regular posters here (ignoring newbies with their parking lot errors), I imagine my spending is well in the lower half of the forum. I had been collecting for about forty years before I spent over $1000 for a coin.
@MasonG said:
There are many reasons a coin may not be slabbed, not all of them bad. Since this is a PCGS message board and many who participate here collect only slabbed coins, it's not too surprising to find that raw coins are looked upon with suspicion. If the only coins you look at are in plastic because you think raw coins probably have problems that would keep them out of a holder, you'll end up with a skewed viewpoint of what actually exists in the market.
So your advice to this collector, who is just starting out, is to go out and buy a bunch of raw coins.
??? I didn't make any such recommendation.
I kind of read it that way. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
My comment was directed towards the sentiment that "If a coin is raw, there's a reason for it". There was no recommendation intended.
@MasonG said:
There are many reasons a coin may not be slabbed, not all of them bad. Since this is a PCGS message board and many who participate here collect only slabbed coins, it's not too surprising to find that raw coins are looked upon with suspicion. If the only coins you look at are in plastic because you think raw coins probably have problems that would keep them out of a holder, you'll end up with a skewed viewpoint of what actually exists in the market.
So your advice to this collector, who is just starting out, is to go out and buy a bunch of raw coins.
??? I didn't make any such recommendation.
I kind of read it that way. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
My comment was directed towards the sentiment that "If a coin is raw, there's a reason for it". There was no recommendation intended.
I think that sentiment is exactly what is needed in this particular situation. Agree to disagree.
I realize you are doing your best with images and I also realize that coin photography can be hard, but the images are just too tough for me to interpret to get behind a gem grade on that coin. I think it's mint state, but I don't think it's gem.
@124Spider said:
While I agree that buying raw coins that cost real money, when you don't get a chance to see the actual coin (and/or if you don't have the knowledge base to determine the grade/condition of the coin), is a bad idea, I take a bit of issue with the blanket "don't buy raw coins sight unseen" and "if it's not graded, there's a reason" that gets tossed into discussions.
The vast majority of my collection is comprised of raw coins in coin albums. And I bought them from reputable internet vendors. And they typically cost in the range of $5-$50. And they come with a free return privilege (which I've used very occasionally).
It makes no economic sense to get a $30 coin graded, and I like having the unencapsulated coin in the album. And, if it happens that I paid $30 for a coin that's actually worth $15, I will survive.
If you are buying raw coins in the 5 to 50 dollar range you should not get killed. When you are buying raw coins in the 500 to a 1000 dollar range as a new collector that scares me. Again apples to tacos.
As I said in the post you quoted....
You also said
I take a bit of issue with the blanket "don't buy raw coins sight unseen" and "if it's not graded, there's a reason" that gets tossed into discussions.
While I said (your first question if a coin is raw should be why) it was not a blanket statement to all collectors. It was given to this collector to try and provide him some helpful information. What would your advice to him be?
Oddly enough, my advice would be (and was) exactly what I first wrote above. Including and especially, "I agree that buying raw coins that cost real money, when you don't get a chance to see the actual coin (and/or if you don't have the knowledge base to determine the grade/condition of the coin), is a bad idea." The post should be read as a whole, not taking individual bits of it out of context.
I didn’t see anyone making blanket statements. At least mine were made to this particular situation were this individual has been buying fairly costly raw coins from poor photos.
As a whole the post is making different points. I was just referring to the blanket statement part.
No worries. I was just defending my very specific comment on this particular situation.
@Watchtower said:
Lol
What do you think?
I can handle it.
I can't speak for Tom, but my guess would be in the 62 realm
I can’t either but my guess would be MS63 to 63+.
I was on the fence 62 and 63 but it’s hard to tell with the lighting. @Watchtower, the photos are tough and the coin might be deserving of better. With that being said, with your future photos maybe go back to the technique you used on some your other threads, where you called it “natural” lighting and the colors were more consistent with the coins real life appearance.
I don’t have a great photography set up at home, and even when I set up on my copy stand with gooseneck led lamps the straight shots from my cell phone camera don’t make the coin look great. The best pictures I take that really show the coins in hand appearance are in my bathroom, at an angle, with my cell phone lol.
@Watchtower said:
I spent some money on a better light so I can take better images.
Here it is again.
I am not a photographer but the white balance is way off. Your previous 'silver' colored coin is now gold'ish. This might also be what is, to me, making it appear to have a funky surface texture. Is that background white or the same as your previous photo here? Note the color now. It appear the light is 'blasting' on the coin. Try moving it off to the side and let the camera adjust to the light intensity. And if you can get two lights, one on each side this could help.
Yeah my imaging skills are lacking. I take the best images in sunlight.
So that's what I will do.
The reason for the third image was that it shows all the contact marks and rubs. Maybe a little too much. If you held the coin in your hand and used a loop you'd like it. What I appreciate most about it is the relief that I didn't get burned on either lot. In fact Lot#2's value brings the cost of this down to $400 or less so I feel good about it.
I want to trade or sell the stuff from Lot#2. I'll be working on an ad for that tomorrow. I'm all coined out for today. I've been playing in the toy box all day long which has been fun. I've got quite the accumulation going on here. I haven't posted a third of what I have.
Most of it was given to me by family. I'll be taking it to shows or selling it here in time. I'm just not motivated to sell anything in a hurry.
Just based on those photos I would be with @MFeld at 62 or 63. It has a decent amount of bag marks on the devices and in the fields, too many for 64, and a long ways from 65.
@spyglassdesign said:
Just based on those photos I would be with @MFeld at 62 or 63. It has a decent amount of bag marks on the devices and in the fields, too many for 64, and a long ways from 65.
The die cracks are neat tho!
It doesn’t sound like you’d quite be with me on the grade, as I wrote
“… my guess would be MS63 to 63+.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
I kind of read it that way. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
Mark you could be correct. I will adjust my thinking. In hand it's just so nice. I do intentionally try to show everything for everyone to have a good honest look. Rubs and all. I appreciate your fair response.
I will submit this coin for grading. It's the only way to know for sure.
It would be nice to have a win.
I'd be head over heels with a 65.
I've had help over the years.
I've bought coins at one time that I might not have on another day but I won't spend a lot of money on one if I don't understand what I'm buying.
No. As I said above, I'm careful with my spending. Based on comments I've read from regular posters here (ignoring newbies with their parking lot errors), I imagine my spending is well in the lower half of the forum. I had been collecting for about forty years before I spent over $1000 for a coin.
I spent some money on a better light so I can take better images.
Here it is again.
My comment was directed towards the sentiment that "If a coin is raw, there's a reason for it". There was no recommendation intended.
I think that sentiment is exactly what is needed in this particular situation. Agree to disagree.
65?
No.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Lol
What do you think?
I can handle it.
I realize you are doing your best with images and I also realize that coin photography can be hard, but the images are just too tough for me to interpret to get behind a gem grade on that coin. I think it's mint state, but I don't think it's gem.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I can't speak for Tom, but my guess would be in the 62 realm
Founder- Peak Rarities
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That's okay. This one is a keeper so I will send it in and whatever the grade I will accept it and keep it for a very long time.
Oddly enough, my advice would be (and was) exactly what I first wrote above. Including and especially, "I agree that buying raw coins that cost real money, when you don't get a chance to see the actual coin (and/or if you don't have the knowledge base to determine the grade/condition of the coin), is a bad idea." The post should be read as a whole, not taking individual bits of it out of context.
I didn’t see anyone making blanket statements. At least mine were made to this particular situation were this individual has been buying fairly costly raw coins from poor photos.
As a whole the post is making different points. I was just referring to the blanket statement part.
No worries. I was just defending my very specific comment on this particular situation.
I can’t either but my guess would be MS63 to 63+.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was on the fence 62 and 63 but it’s hard to tell with the lighting. @Watchtower, the photos are tough and the coin might be deserving of better. With that being said, with your future photos maybe go back to the technique you used on some your other threads, where you called it “natural” lighting and the colors were more consistent with the coins real life appearance.
I don’t have a great photography set up at home, and even when I set up on my copy stand with gooseneck led lamps the straight shots from my cell phone camera don’t make the coin look great. The best pictures I take that really show the coins in hand appearance are in my bathroom, at an angle, with my cell phone lol.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
I am not a photographer but the white balance is way off. Your previous 'silver' colored coin is now gold'ish. This might also be what is, to me, making it appear to have a funky surface texture. Is that background white or the same as your previous photo here? Note the color now. It appear the light is 'blasting' on the coin. Try moving it off to the side and let the camera adjust to the light intensity. And if you can get two lights, one on each side this could help.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
What 66's were you comparing it to? I put it closer to the 62/63 area, but still a very nice coin.
Yeah my imaging skills are lacking. I take the best images in sunlight.
So that's what I will do.
The reason for the third image was that it shows all the contact marks and rubs. Maybe a little too much. If you held the coin in your hand and used a loop you'd like it. What I appreciate most about it is the relief that I didn't get burned on either lot. In fact Lot#2's value brings the cost of this down to $400 or less so I feel good about it.
I want to trade or sell the stuff from Lot#2. I'll be working on an ad for that tomorrow. I'm all coined out for today. I've been playing in the toy box all day long which has been fun. I've got quite the accumulation going on here. I haven't posted a third of what I have.
Most of it was given to me by family. I'll be taking it to shows or selling it here in time. I'm just not motivated to sell anything in a hurry.
Just based on those photos I would be with @MFeld at 62 or 63. It has a decent amount of bag marks on the devices and in the fields, too many for 64, and a long ways from 65.
The die cracks are neat tho!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
It doesn’t sound like you’d quite be with me on the grade, as I wrote
“… my guess would be MS63 to 63+.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Before those goldish tinted pics I was thinking 63, shot 64 but that weird grainy surface texture gives me pause
RIP Mom- 1932-2012