Shooting some new purchases today. Curious as to which photos you prefer.
ironmanl63
Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭✭✭
The first set of Images is with zero modifications. The second set has some minor modifications to try and show more of what the coin looks like in hand.
Neither set captures the true color and beauty of the coin. I have not figured out how to do that yet.
Enhanced photos
If anyone wants to guess the grade feel free to do that as well. I will give the grade later of course.
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Comments
First
I prefer the second set of photos, the devices seem to be lit up more and it gives them more contrast. Jut a tad more vibrant than the first set
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I prefer the first set, the second seems too red to me. Nice coin and excellent photos though.
nice images. they are cropped a bit too small. 1000-1400 is probably better for smaller coins, especially for gtg but you are dialed in for pics.
the easiest way to capture a coins toning is to over-expose and diffuse but there are other ways. doing it through a slab can be challenging. sometimes, putting a cent under one of the corners of the slab helps get an angle for the light to hit to make the color pop. don't see it much anymore but sometimes coins tilted in slabs can cause some grief.
Since I am not a fan of tarnish, I judge by visible detail. I believe the second set has more clarity of detail, particularly the reverse. Good pictures... Cheers, RickO
Whichever looks more like coin in hand, which you believe is #2. I also have a hard time getting the color right on my photos, esp that copper orange/red.
The most important factor in getting great photos is the lighting. Moving the lamps to different positions changes the photo significantly. It's good to experiment by moving the lamps to see what happens.
For clarity the photos are they exact same shoots. As a rule I do not modify the original shots. In this case I used my photo software to try and match what the coin looks like in hand. It is pretty close to the straight on view but does not capture the colors that appear when the coin is twirled in the light.
What I did to the second set of photos was to slightly increase the contrast, increase the color saturation and up the sharpness slightly. The holder is scratched up a bit but not terribly. Some of what looks like scratches in the coin are in the holder.
I moved them all over. The only way to see the colors is to rotate the coin in hand. I have not tried to tilt the coin on the copy stand for fear that I will not be able to focus properly.
If you made minor adjustments to make the second picture look more like the coin in hand, I think you have your answer.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I'm not a fan of raw coins. For me, I want to see the grade in the slab and whether it has a CAC.
I agree but I read a lot hear that people prefer photos that have not been enhanced. By enhancing I am trying to show the true look as opposed to trying to make the coin look better than it actually is.
My photo set up is not able to shoot full slab shots. I use bellows and a copy stand which does not allow me to fit the whole slab in the shot.
It is awesome for zooming in and getting great detail. I can really blow up small areas of a coin.
TBH I wouldn’t turn either away
Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.
Frankly, that Barber quarter looks amazing; BUT, sadly I don't have the skills to grade. Posting the grade and whether it is NGC or PCGS (and CAC) would do the trick.
I will just want to give folks a chance to guess if they care to. It is in a NGC holder as shown by the prongs.
Your first shot looks fine. What program did you use to modify the originals for the second set?
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you.
https://www.donahuenumismatics.com/.
I use a Cannon camera and the software that came with it. I also use the tether so I can see the coin on the laptop and remotely shoot. I think the program is pretty basic and universal. It is the only one I have ever used.
I like the second set of photos at 64.
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just go ahead an give it some micro tilt. the only time you are really going to run into depth-of-field issues are very specific circumstances. keep the tilt minor, or learn a different technique, you'll be fine.
there is nothing wrong with post-processing, so long as it isn't done to deceive. also, this applies to the tilt above with some depth of field challenges, which should be minor. you can just sharpen a bit, if you so desire.
so with your rig at max height and your lens zoomed as far out as possible, a full slab will still not fit into the frame? it is kinda going around your elbow to get to your butt, BUT, you could image half of the slab, then the other half, then just piece them together. shouldn't be but a couple copy/paste keyboard clicks. fwiw
hope it helps.
i also just made a post with a great video tutorial covering dslr macro photography and i chose that video BECAUSE there are no coins in it. techniques are techniques, generally speaking, doesn't matter what they are applied to.
Nice Barber. 1st is better in my opinion.
Dave
Here's a diagram that shows how silly, and perhaps ignorant, that attitude is. Top left is the camera sensor. Raw image is after no more than the 3rd box on the left. JPEG out of the camera is unboxed part near lower right. Things in between can be controlled by camera settings or by processing the raw file on your computer. Your eyes are at the very bottom right. Diagram may be an oversimplification of reality. Apologies for legibility issues, as I just sketched this out without trying to be neat.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
First set for me.
My YouTube Channel
I like the second set better, but it seems that the white balance is off as the prongs should be white not the cream color that I see on my screen.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I like the second set better. The coin has more pop to it.
I agree the white balance seems off - the prongs look fairly yellow. I threw the unedited obverse image into Photoshop and let it do adjustments automatically, but without seeing the coin in hand I have no idea what it looks like. Is this anywhere close? BTW - the coin looks to be around PR65 to me (I believe the stuff in the left obverse field is haze).
Coin Photographer.
Zero haze on the coin. They are just toning breaks is the best way I can describe it. I use auto white balance. The camera has different settings other than auto but none look good when I try them. I do not think I can adjust the white balance other than the ones on the camera already.
OK. How does the photo I posted compare to the coin?
Coin Photographer.
I agree with you but I made this post to see what other posters think. That is why I posted both sets of photos. What I think looks good may not to other people. I still do not know your opinion. I would guess the second set but could not say for sure.
I appreciate your feedback and you taking the time show an illustration. I am an amateur with no previous photo experience.
I would say it is as close as the photos I posted. I think they are close but do not show the colors properly. The coin is quite vivid when rolled under light.
Here are photos of the coin when it sold long ago at Stacks. These photos although they show the color better still do not show the actual vibrancy of the coin in hand.
.> @ironmanl63 said:
Yes, the second set. A little more pop than the first, and you're also telling me it looks more like the actual coin. As you're the only one who can currently see the actual coin, that carries a lot of weight. One thing I'd do if using Photoshop would be to lighten up the bottom of the coin a bit. Lasso tool with large "feathering" distance, then curves tool.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I have the same issue when shooting coins flat... It's near impossible to catch the full picture you see with your own eyes. I think some of that is lighting.
Someone needs to come up with a 3d photo method that allows the end user to spin the coins as if they are holding it in their hand to show off the reflectivity and color.
Other than some light manipulation in photoshop to get some colors to show better, I haven't found a better way. I'm always tinkering with camera settings, and can usually get close enough on silver that just a few tweaks in photoshop are good. Copper is my kryptonite though I can never get the color right.
With that said, if the second pics are more true to visual in hand, that's the one I'd go with! As you said the raw image just doesn't do it justice.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
I've figured out how to do this but haven't had the time to pursue the idea to completion. Heritage Auctions will have their spinning videos, but to give the control of the spin to the user requires a serious amount of coding and the understanding of integers and mathematical arrays.
To show off the vibrance and reflectivity of a slabbed proof or prooflike coin, I use the axial lighting method with a piece of acetate and adjust the resulting photo in post-processing to remove the haze.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you.
https://www.donahuenumismatics.com/.
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if the camera settings, quality and lens are up-to-par, it is the lighting, type and/or angles. 100%
these were shot with the standard X pattern, give or take. i REAAAAAAALLLLLYYYY think the light housings holding the bulbs had a lot to do with it the more i see people's images and their challenges. the lights w/o some sort of housing may be allowing too much spread of the light. also do it in a darker room rather than lighter.
these are just to show no real special effort (once i learned my settings) except having my lights free to move to anywhere they needed to be. (until you learn the ins-and-outs and can have them fixed) the images are intended to encourage. i'll post a wide variety so no one thinks i'm just cherrying the easiest to image. once you hit the sweet spot, 98% become pretty easy. maybe a few extra images here n there.
i'm not saying these couldn't have used some tweaking. i imaged a lot of them pretty quickly as i was kinda into quantity after getting it dialed in "enough."
For those interested the coin is a Proof 66 Cameo and yes it has a green sticker.
I’m not sure what model Canon you are using but if you’re using bellows it’s almost certainly a DSLR. If that’s the case the white balance can and should be adjusted. You would need to do it manually and also not use auto white balance. Read your manual how to adjust custom white balance. What model do you have?
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Cannon Rebel XS DS126191 I do not have the manual but should be able to look it up.
I purchased the whole set up from @rmpsrpms.
a great idea to tag him. if anyone would know...
There are some nice tools in the Canon software that will work after you have taken the shot. Just make sure you use the same bulbs in all the lights and shoot in a dark room.
What model do you have?
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I like the third set of pics at PR67.
Thanks guys. I will set it this weekend. I have some really nice stuff to photo.
Thanks to all who helped. I set my white balance and photos are now much better. Here are the new photos and a new Indian cent I photoed.
Now I have to reshoot over 250 coins.
haha. this falls under, be careful what you wish for.
i'm over 50k images easily although, not all reshoots but quite a few no doubt.
250 is nuddin'
once you get that lighting fixed (everything else looks spot-on) doing 250 in a day is a breeze. unless you are going for 9.5 or 10.0 quality. if you aim for 8.5 to 9.0, no problem.
You could just adjust the white balance in photoshop or a similar program if that's possible.
Coin Photographer.
Maybe not. If you shot them in raw mode, the white balance setting is a piece of metadata and not burned into the pixels. You will be able to open the raw files in a Camera Raw editor and adjust the white balance of all of them all at once. If you only have JPEG files coming out of the camera, then the white balance is already part of the pixel data and attempting to change it won't give the best results. If you look at my diagram, white balance is applied near the top of the right column of boxes between the Laplacian pyramid reconstruction (Recompose Image) and Saturation adjustment.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
You’re doing a really good job, all of the pictures you posted in this thread are more than acceptable, but don’t stop experimenting and figuring out different techniques. Useful to know which technique might work for different types of coins. Different coins benefit from different techniques.
Mr_Spud
sometimes my brain gets in the way with all the technical stuff and i forget to full appreciate the beauty and looking over those SB images again, they REALLLLY show off the wonderfully full and even strike of that proof quarter.
they also show that the quarter is probably pretty spiffy looking in-hand.