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(Updated Today With Actual Coin). Would you bid on same previously auctioned coin

WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 696 ✭✭✭✭
edited January 8, 2023 7:07PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I was going to bid on a coin sold in a GC auction but saw it was previously offered a few months ago by GC. In my mind I am leery thinking that the buyer is resubmitting the coin back to GC because he either didn’t like the coin or he sent it to CAC and it failed. Is that most likely the reason, or could it be that the buyer is trying to flip it or needs to perhaps upgrade to a different coin. I have seen this happen quite a few times in the auctions.

Any thoughts and would this information make you pass or hesitate on the coin even if you really like the pictures on the auction site.



Comments

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would not bother me at all; if you like the coin, bid on it.

    I pulled a few off of GC a few months ago when gold dropped, have been considering putting a few back on now that it is back up some. Nothing devious.

  • Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would go for it if you like the coin, just take a second look to make sure you didn't miss something in the pictures. I see coins bouncing around between GC, eBay, HA and Stacks quite frequently and I think it's become more common since we've been in a generally increasing price environment. What does sometimes set off a red flag for me is if I see that the coin has been sold 3-4+ times within 12 months.

  • MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I can get it at my price, why not?

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,598 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2023 7:20AM

    if you like the coin the grab it who cares if it's returned or whatever

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would certainly give me pause.
    When I see the exact same item in the exact same venue offered a short time later, I start thinking that the seller shilled his item up and got left holding the bag when his price was never met.
    I dont know too many people that would sell from the same auction house that they purchased it from so soon afterwards. The exception is eBay, because it is so large and is a 24-7 marketplace.
    As with anything, bid what you are comfortable paying. No nuclear bids in scenarios you've described!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • gtstanggtstang Posts: 1,692 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you like a coin for the price, why should it matter if cac or someone else did not?
    If you really think about it, when you're the high bidder, noone else at the time liked it as much as you did.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    There are numerous reasons why the same coin might be re-offered for sale (by either the same or a different auction house) within a short time period. Here are some of them:
    The winning bidder wasn’t able to pay for the coin.
    The winning bidder is trying to flip the coin for a profit.
    The winning bidder needs to raise cash.
    A reserve wasn’t met.
    The winning bidder decided that he didn’t like the coin or found another one that he liked better.
    The winning bidder tried for an upgrade, a crossover or a CAC sticker and was unsuccessful.

    Sometimes, when a coin is re-offered, it brings less and other times, more. Oh, and sometimes it even brings an identical amount.😉

    This.

    You can ask Ian. He may or may not have further information.

    FWIW Most dealers buy coins at auction and resell them. They USUALLY change venues, but not always.

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2023 7:51AM

    It would give me pause and I would likely scrutinize the coin a bit more closely, but in and of itself a multiple appearance would not prevent me from bidding if I concluded the coin had merit and met my criteria.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    I was the underbidder on a inexpensive 3CS at the Newman sale. IIRC it sold for $140 with buyer's premium.

    2 weeks after the sale it showed up on fleaBay BIN $115.

    Darn tooting I bought it.

    Hmmm... now that coin i might have avoided. Why would someone sell at a loss so quickly?

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There would need to be a good reason for me not to.

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As mark said, there could be numerous reasons why, but one thing that I would question the most is the fact, that when buyer recieved it, they didn't care for it or wasnt what they expected, and with that, only way I would be a player next time around would be if I could actually see it in hand.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jdimmick said:
    As mark said, there could be numerous reasons why, but one thing that I would question the most is the fact, that when buyer recieved it, they didn't care for it or wasnt what they expected, and with that, only way I would be a player next time around would be if I could actually see it in hand.

    Maybe. Except that something that bothers you may not bother me.

  • seatedlib3991seatedlib3991 Posts: 501 ✭✭✭✭

    I run by coins that have been previously sold on a regular basis. Unless the first sale is over 3 years old, I take it as a sign of what that coin is going for and bid accordingly.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2023 9:33AM

    Yes for most part - If can buy right and it has potential sell at good margin is what drives my bids. Anything I buy especially online I examine carefully. As far as conjecture why owner selling not likely my concern. More likely a nuclear bidder may ruin the opportunity for me anyway. What is the CPG MV of the coin? How big ticket a coin are you talking about?

    Furthermore not much of buyer big ticket Classic coins where have they been to CAC possibly an issue. My focus more on world, bullion, currency, mods, plus material people coming in bourse room can afford and material I can do well with. I think more likely the seller needs liquidate it - either he got an upgrade or needs the money - car repair, dental, etc. People are hurting these days, we are in uncertain times. Autos, housing in stratosphere. Numismatic Investment does not pay interest or dividends.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Keep it simple. Do you and you alone like and want the coin? Then go for it.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2023 9:35AM

    If you want it, love it, need it, then go for it. But if you are on the fence and might put it up for sale again in the near future just beware that a coin can get “burned” by being shopped around or auctioned too many times in a short period of time. Just the mere fact this thread exists proves that theory- you saw a coin recently auctioned being put up again and it made you think twice “what’s the problem here, why is it up for sale again, is there something I’m not getting?” Like Mark said there are tons of reasons.

    I know collectors who will not buy coins at auction, even if they need them, because they don’t want a price record out there for the public to be able to see. Now that is an extreme case, but it goes to show collectors can be a funny bunch about things like this.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,861 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    I know collectors who will not buy coins at auction, even if they need them, because they don’t want a price record out there for the public to be able to see. Now that is an extreme case, but it goes to show collectors can be a funny bunch about things like this.

    If the coin is at auction, there's going to be a price record as someone else will buy it.

    So do these collectors avoid coins that have ever appeared at any auction with records, or perhaps are willing to buy them privately a few years after an auction sale?

  • Stingray63Stingray63 Posts: 299 ✭✭✭

    I've seen that with a number of coins. Maybe the value on that specific coin jumped since or the previous buyer just thinks they can flip it for more. Who knows but GC has great photos so just inspect it again thoroughly. Maybe you'll get it at a better price than a few months back.

    Pocket Change Inspector

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ll bid if I like the coin from the picture. The many reasons for a coin being relisted so soon have been listed and most really don’t matter if you like the coin and aren’t buying to resell immediately (and even then you might still be ok if it goes for a low price).

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good points made. I say if you like it, go for it. 👍

    At my shop, we have a guy that, for some reason, can’t go online to buy coins himself, but wants us to do it for him, and it’s always APMEX without fail, plus, the owner charges a small fee for the hassle. To sum it up, he’s buying this stuff at the most expensive way possible and paying a fee on top to boot. (This is easily found stuff like raw AU saints and raw krugerrands)

    Anyway probably about half the time, he changes his mind and sells the said item to the shop before it even arrives in the mail! Usually at a $200-400 loss on average. I’m not making this up. He does it regularly.

    The worst I ever saw with him was a 1926 Saint in PCGS MS65, bought it in the mid 3k range through APMEX of course and came to collect when it arrived.

    I saw the coin and was finally impressed that he bought something nice, and walked off as he was examining it. I had to go into the back room, I was away for a few minutes, and when I came back, I mentioned to the owner how I was impressed that he finally bought something nice… (he had left by then) Anyway the owner holds the coin up and shakes it in the air :D

    I was truly confused and I asked what is that? He said he sold it… Literally sold it 10 minutes after collecting it, and took about a $1000 loss!

    Basically the whole point of the story is you see all kinds in this business!

  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    I know collectors who will not buy coins at auction, even if they need them, because they don’t want a price record out there for the public to be able to see. Now that is an extreme case, but it goes to show collectors can be a funny bunch about things like this.

    If the coin is at auction, there's going to be a price record as someone else will buy it.

    So do these collectors avoid coins that have ever appeared at any auction with records, or perhaps are willing to buy them privately a few years after an auction sale?

    I don’t know the exact answer to that, but I believe their objective is to avoid a price trail and a new holder/new cert number is one potential way of achieving that.

    On a related note I love provenance so I always try to track down my coins. There are coins I have purchased that do not have auction records or provenance. Maybe the holders and cert #’s have changed over time and the provenance lost. Old auction photos are often of poor quality, or there are so many of a specific issue you have no idea which one is which. Even very expensive very famous coins sometimes come with the provenance description “may be from this collection or that collection.”

    Virgil Brand used to buy proof coins direct from the mint by the dozens, but I don’t see a lot of proof coins from the period with his provenance, but you know he owned hundreds if not thousands of them.

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It depends.

    If I like the coin and plan on holding it for a long time it probably doesn’t make any difference. Ideally it would be nice if someone viewed the coin for you.

    If it’s something I might want to upgrade in the neat future or I’m not 100% committed to I would wonder why it’s being resold in such a short period of time. There are a million reasons why people decide to sell something shortly after buying it.

    I recently bought a Bust Dollar on GC. I never really liked it after getting it. I found a much nicer one a few weeks later and resold the initial one on HA.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I bid before, I would probably bid again and might get it for my price this time.

  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @skier07 said:
    It depends.

    If I like the coin and plan on holding it for a long time it probably doesn’t make any difference. Ideally it would be nice if someone viewed the coin for you.

    If it’s something I might want to upgrade in the neat future or I’m not 100% committed to I would wonder why it’s being resold in such a short period of time. There are a million reasons why people decide to sell something shortly after buying it.

    I recently bought a Bust Dollar on GC. I never really liked it after getting it. I found a much nicer one a few weeks later and resold the initial one on HA.

    I’ve done that too- I spend hours cruising auctions and I’ll see something and get all pumped up about it needing a coin fix and make a purchase. A month or two or three later I’m like- meh, I didn’t really want or need that- and send it to GC for sale. It’s a bad habit I am working on!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,861 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    On a related note I love provenance so I always try to track down my coins. There are coins I have purchased that do not have auction records or provenance. Maybe the holders and cert #’s have changed over time and the provenance lost. Old auction photos are often of poor quality, or there are so many of a specific issue you have no idea which one is which. Even very expensive very famous coins sometimes come with the provenance description “may be from this collection or that collection.”

    Virgil Brand used to buy proof coins direct from the mint by the dozens, but I don’t see a lot of proof coins from the period with his provenance, but you know he owned hundreds if not thousands of them.

    Tracking provenance of coins is important to me as well and a very fun part of collecting.

    With as many coins as Virgil Brand had, it seems difficult to trace many of them today as they are not necessarily associated with him. Here's a thread I have to keep track of Brand's coins. I also post to a few other threads for old time provenance:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1046512/virgil-brand-the-most-underrated-coin-collector-of-all-time-or-the-king-of-coin-collectors/p1

  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    On a related note I love provenance so I always try to track down my coins. There are coins I have purchased that do not have auction records or provenance. Maybe the holders and cert #’s have changed over time and the provenance lost. Old auction photos are often of poor quality, or there are so many of a specific issue you have no idea which one is which. Even very expensive very famous coins sometimes come with the provenance description “may be from this collection or that collection.”

    Virgil Brand used to buy proof coins direct from the mint by the dozens, but I don’t see a lot of proof coins from the period with his provenance, but you know he owned hundreds if not thousands of them.

    Tracking provenance of coins is important to me as well and a very fun part of collecting.

    With as many coins as Virgil Brand had, it seems difficult to trace many of them today as they are not necessarily associated with him. Here's a thread I have to keep track of Brand's coins. I also post to a few other threads for old time provenance:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1046512/virgil-brand-the-most-underrated-coin-collector-of-all-time-or-the-king-of-coin-collectors/p1

    That’s a great thread- one of my favorite old time collections! Just wish I could have visited his apartment at the brewery and viewed his cigar boxes full of coins. I always wonder if it was neatly organized so he could find whatever he wanted quickly or was it a mess like those hoarder houses on TV or something in between?

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:
    I was going to bid on a coin sold in a GC auction but saw it was previously offered a few months ago by GC. In my mind I am leery thinking that the buyer is resubmitting the coin back to GC because he either didn’t like the coin or he sent it to CAC and it failed. Is that most likely the reason, or could it be that the buyer is trying to flip it or needs to perhaps upgrade to a different coin. I have seen this happen quite a few times in the auctions.

    I do consider possible reasons that the coin is showing up for auction again so soon, but conjecture doesn't influence my bidding as much as pictures of the coin.

  • I would bid on it.

  • AtcarrollAtcarroll Posts: 343 ✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    It would certainly give me pause.
    When I see the exact same item in the exact same venue offered a short time later, I start thinking that the seller shilled his item up and got left holding the bag when his price was never met.
    I dont know too many people that would sell from the same auction house that they purchased it from so soon afterwards. The exception is eBay, because it is so large and is a 24-7 marketplace.
    As with anything, bid what you are comfortable paying. No nuclear bids in scenarios you've described!

    I like that no nuclear bid caveat.

  • vulcanizevulcanize Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's tough to keep track at times and have missed it when came up initially.
    Hence have had to buy it from auction houses as well as eBay when it got offered again.
    For some I had to pay a bit of a premium whereas for a few others, got a great bargain.
    :)

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @asheland said:
    Good points made. I say if you like it, go for it. 👍

    At my shop, we have a guy that, for some reason, can’t go online to buy coins himself, but wants us to do it for him, and it’s always APMEX without fail, plus, the owner charges a small fee for the hassle. To sum it up, he’s buying this stuff at the most expensive way possible and paying a fee on top to boot. (This is easily found stuff like raw AU saints and raw krugerrands)

    Anyway probably about half the time, he changes his mind and sells the said item to the shop before it even arrives in the mail! Usually at a $200-400 loss on average. I’m not making this up. He does it regularly.

    The worst I ever saw with him was a 1926 Saint in PCGS MS65, bought it in the mid 3k range through APMEX of course and came to collect when it arrived.

    I saw the coin and was finally impressed that he bought something nice, and walked off as he was examining it. I had to go into the back room, I was away for a few minutes, and when I came back, I mentioned to the owner how I was impressed that he finally bought something nice… (he had left by then) Anyway the owner holds the coin up and shakes it in the air :D

    I was truly confused and I asked what is that? He said he sold it… Literally sold it 10 minutes after collecting it, and took about a $1000 loss!

    Basically the whole point of the story is you see all kinds in this business!

    Yeah, we had somebody like that over here. Well, except for the paying a fee to have someone else place the order. Half the stuff he sells you can find on ebay in the sold listings. Makes it easy to get an exact price comp. Lol

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ya, I wouldn't overthink it. If you like the coin bid on it..

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I may be a bit more conservative with my bid, but I would bid.

  • humanssuckhumanssuck Posts: 317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought a 1937 Walker in PCGS CAC PR67 a while back from a major auction house. The coin arrived, and it was nice, but the 66+ i already had hands down had better eye appeal. I sold the new 67 to a dealer the next day. It would have cost me more than I "lost" on the coin to have attended the auction in person to view the coin, not to mention taking time off work, so my plan all along had been to get it and then sell it if I didnt like it more than my current one, and i was happy to eat a small loss on the coin to save $ overall.

    I have also on other occasions bought a really nice coin in auction, only to have a month later a better / higher grade one come up, and i now have a nice extra to dispose of.

    So a coin being put right back on the market soon after auction doesnt always mean its a reject. I realize this is herecy, but you could just buy the coin if you like it and not worry about why someone else didnt want it...

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What if it is a not easily replaceable coin? For Walkers or Morgans or 09-S VDBs or etc, you can find them coming up for auction every month. What if it's a coin that is more scarce? 1799 1c or $4 Stella or something like that?

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 696 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2023 6:58PM

    Here is the coin. What are your thoughts on the coin quality and price.


    Sold at a considerable loss. I passed only because I bought another walker I needed for my collection today.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Would you bid on a coin if you saw the same coin auctioned recently?"

    Sure.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would not matter to me at all. Why should it, if you like the coin. You bid your price and it is what it is. You win or don't win, but at a price your willing to pay. Don't overthink the purchase. So many try to micromanage every decision and if you place every decision under a microscope, life can become quite difficult.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • AtcarrollAtcarroll Posts: 343 ✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:
    Here is the coin. What are your thoughts on the coin quality and price.


    Sold at a considerable loss. I passed only because I bought another walker I needed for my collection today.

    I'd drop out of the bidding around the $55-$65 range, unless I really had a thing for the OGH. 63s and 64s of that date aren't hard to find, and if you're buying the coin and not the holder you can get a better price in a lot of other places.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I like a coin, and the information and pictures appear to truly represent it, I will bid on it - even if it has appeared a time or two in the recent past. Possible reasons are many - as listed above. I have done this before, and so far, have not been disappointed. Cheers, RickO

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:
    Here is the coin. What are your thoughts on the coin quality and price.
    Sold at a considerable loss. I passed only because I bought another walker I needed for my collection today.

    I like the coin, it has nice rainbow colors on both sides (link to auction).

    The auction result for this kind of coin mostly depends on (1) bidders that value toners, (2) bidders that value rattlers, and (3) bidders that value toned rattlers. The more of those participating, the higher the hammer—it only takes two to run up the price.

    Yesterday was also the end of the FUN show, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was reduced activity on GC as a result.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

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