@Dave99B said:
I’ve purchased certified coins from ‘no return’ sellers, but I need good images and highly rated sellers. I think some of these sellers grew tired of all the eBay buyers using them as an approval service.
Dave
It IS an approval service, created entirely by the sellers themselves, if the sellers only take "glamour shots" without mentioning and/or photographing the coins problems, if any. It becomes a disapproval service if the seller's description and photos are deliberately misleading. I don't return a coin unless it's been clearly misrepresented in the description or photos.
I think some of the buyers grew tired of all the eBay sellers using them as suckers upon which to dump their bad coins.
I have had a coin returned because "changed my mind", "too small", "forgot I had one", "just got a tax bill" etc. None of that has anything to do with "glamor shots". Sometimes it is the BUYER but the seller who is the problem.
Don't forget "my kid got on the computer and placed some bids without my permission"
Lol. Yeah, there seems to be an epidemic of those. I actually once had someone claim that 2 months after delivery.
I had 2 cancelations this week: didn't mean to place the order and "found a better price". They were legit since they were shortly after purchase. The 2nd one bothered me a bit (block) because I had accepted his second offer, so he had actually set the price. It was a Pokémon card which I have nothing into so meh...
@logger7 said:
If buyers abuse reasonable returns they should be responsible for costs associated with the transaction. Restocking fees make sense in some cases.
Generally, I agree with this policy right up until I determine that I'm being deliberately screwed over by a seller. When I KNOW that they went out of their way to hide the coin's problems, then I imply that they'd better add the return shipping as well if they cherish their absurd satisfaction rating.
Poor behavior isn't limited to buyers. There are some sellers that are nothing more than crooks, and these forums are filled with stories of their crooked activity.
"I took this (obvious fake) to two dealers in town and they said it was authentic."
"Here's a picture (of some run-down, cinder-block building) of the 180-yo bank where we found the safe."
@jmlanzaf said:
I had 2 cancelations this week: didn't mean to place the order and "found a better price".
I had one cancellation this week, the second time for this particular coin in the last two months. Also, the second time for this particular buyer. My coin came up in his search and he bought it based on the price alone without reading the title, description or looking at the picture.
@logger7 said:
If buyers abuse reasonable returns they should be responsible for costs associated with the transaction. Restocking fees make sense in some cases.
Generally, I agree with this policy right up until I determine that I'm being deliberately screwed over by a seller. When I KNOW that they went out of their way to hide the coin's problems, then I imply that they'd better add the return shipping as well if they cherish their absurd satisfaction rating.
Poor behavior isn't limited to buyers. There are some sellers that are nothing more than crooks, and these forums are filled with stories of their crooked activity.
Yes, there are bad actors on both sides. For me (as a seller) my issue is that eBay is highly skewed to favor buyers. There's almost always recourse against an actual bad seller. It's much harder to be protected from bad buyers. I'm very, very confident I do things the right and honest way. It doesn't mean I don't make a mistake, but if I miss something, it's a mistake, not intentional. And if I do make a mistake, I'll cover the costs to make it right and won't play any games to try and avoid that. However, whether I made a mistake or a buyer is just trying to get around paying the costs of a return, I'll handle it very differently if a buyer comes at me at with full force accusing me of being a criminal versus a polite note that lets me know there's a problem. Given all the protections eBay has for buyers, if there's a legitimate issue with something received, I don't think it hurts to send one nice note first and see what comes of it. If the seller tells you to pound sand, go ahead and push back. But even if the problem looks deliberate, perhaps it was just an actual, honest error.
@MWallace said:
I'm sincerely curious. Do you yourself buy coins sight unseen via a photo, or even a stock photo, with a no return policy?
I do occasionally, but seldom from stock photos unless it's something slabbed or from a trusted seller. If it turns out there's a problem that should have been described but wasn't you can still get a return, but if there's a minor issue that i should have caught but missed i just consider it tuition. Issues that should be described are pretty much just cleaning or damage that's not evident in photos, to me.
@airplanenut said:
Given all the protections eBay has for buyers, if there's a legitimate issue with something received, I don't think it hurts to send one nice note first and see what comes of it. If the seller tells you to pound sand, go ahead and push back. But even if the problem looks deliberate, perhaps it was just an actual, honest error.
If a buyer has a problem with a transaction, there's no reason they can't contact the seller and see if things can be worked out without getting eBay involved. eBay keeps track of disputes filed and sellers can have their fees increased and other limits placed on their accounts.
Last month, a buyer filed a dispute because they hadn't received their coin at 1:04AM, eBay responded at 1:08AM to tell me that they settled the dispute in the buyer's favor and refunded the buyer. I had "Cases closed without seller resolution" ding put on my account- because I wasn't online to respond to a complaint between 1:04 and 1:08AM. If the buyer had contacted me directly, I would have taken care of it.
@airplanenut said:
Given all the protections eBay has for buyers, if there's a legitimate issue with something received, I don't think it hurts to send one nice note first and see what comes of it. If the seller tells you to pound sand, go ahead and push back. But even if the problem looks deliberate, perhaps it was just an actual, honest error.
If a buyer has a problem with a transaction, there's no reason they can't contact the seller and see if things can be worked out without getting eBay involved. eBay keeps track of disputes filed and sellers can have their fees increased and other limits placed on their accounts.
Last month, a buyer filed a dispute because they hadn't received their coin at 1:04AM, eBay responded at 1:08AM to tell me that they settled the dispute in the buyer's favor and refunded the buyer. I had "Cases closed without seller resolution" ding put on my account- because I wasn't online to respond to a complaint between 1:04 and 1:08AM. If the buyer had contacted me directly, I would have taken care of it.
that is really odd. i wonder what premise the buyer and ebay used to "force" the settlement of the dispute through the system like that.
did the tracking ever show as delivered?
also, was it for a standard envelope? (i'm wondering for the sake of time/money if they just "force" a resolution for low-dollar items) IF it was a S.E. situation, you gotta figure ebay knows sellers that use this service a LOT are way ahead of the game both in money and peace of mind because of the tracking, including the buyers. (but this commentary is really only if it was a S.E. shipping situation) t.i.a.
@jmlanzaf said:
But even if it was SE shipping, you should get a non-resolution ding.
.
i guess the balance i was thinking of is IF s.e. shipping for the sake of cost/time and because of low value, buyers get much faster/easier resolution BUT that would be the disincentive for the seller not a nearly instant easy resolution for the buyer AND a ding. more like in lieu of a ding. but that is my thinking and i don't even know if that is what mason is talking about and i also don't know how s.e. resolution is actually handled. thankfully (yet)
also, logically since we as sellers usually get a week or two to settle disputes, i can see getting a ding for NOT doing our part of keep things moving along towards as amicable a solution as we can BUT if it goes beyond that expiration date with no solution, i can see a ding being issued but with an "instant" unfavorable resolution automatically being issued with NO recourse possible for the seller, especially if no messages have been sent by the buyer and within a reasonable window and not outside the seller's listed return period, an automatic non-res ding seems a bit unfair, even for ebay.
@airplanenut said:
Given all the protections eBay has for buyers, if there's a legitimate issue with something received, I don't think it hurts to send one nice note first and see what comes of it. If the seller tells you to pound sand, go ahead and push back. But even if the problem looks deliberate, perhaps it was just an actual, honest error.
If a buyer has a problem with a transaction, there's no reason they can't contact the seller and see if things can be worked out without getting eBay involved. eBay keeps track of disputes filed and sellers can have their fees increased and other limits placed on their accounts.
Last month, a buyer filed a dispute because they hadn't received their coin at 1:04AM, eBay responded at 1:08AM to tell me that they settled the dispute in the buyer's favor and refunded the buyer. I had "Cases closed without seller resolution" ding put on my account- because I wasn't online to respond to a complaint between 1:04 and 1:08AM. If the buyer had contacted me directly, I would have taken care of it.
I've had that happen (or something similar) a few times, where I had no realistic window to reply. I was also once told my a customer service rep I shouldn't reply to something... and then it got escalated and I lost. But I called back, moved up the chain, and made a manager listen to a very long phone call (hey, they're all recorded) to confirm I did exactly what I was told to do. The advice was wrong, but they reversed all the penalties (the ding and taking away my money) because I did what I was told to do.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
that is really odd. i wonder what premise the buyer and ebay used to "force" the settlement of the dispute through the system like that.
did the tracking ever show as delivered?
also, was it for a standard envelope?
It was for a standard envelope, didn't show as delivered.
I don't know what the process looks like from the buyer's side as I've never initiated a claim for something I've bought. This is the way it went for me:
Seven days after the purchase, I received a notice from eBay that the buyer claimed the package was not received and eBay gave me the option to either refund him or send him a message. I sent a message asking the buyer to contact me in a week to let me know the status of the shipment and if he still hadn't received the coin, I'd refund him. The buyer did not respond to this message.
Two days later, I awoke to an email received from eBay at 1:04AM:
Buyer contacted Customer Service
The buyer has asked eBay Customer Service to review this case and make a final decision.
We'll get back to you within 48 hours.
Four minutes later, I received this email from eBay:
eBay has made a final decision in this case
We reviewed this case and decided to issue the buyer a full refund.
We didn’t receive valid proof of delivery from you. Sellers must provide tracking information showing the item was delivered to the address provided in the order details.
Essentially, I was given no chance to respond to the buyer's claim. I especially enjoyed the "We didn’t receive valid proof of delivery from you" comment, as sellers are never in a position to provide this information and the tracking on a standard envelope shipment is something that's actually done by a business that provides the service through eBay.
Through this whole process, I never heard a word from the buyer. All of this could have been avoided if he had just contacted me to let me know he didn't receive his coin. Since this is how eBay has chosen to manage a complaint like this, I will now be blocking any buyer who files a complaint with eBay rather than contacting me directly.
@MasonG said:
I will now be blocking any buyer who files a complaint with eBay rather than contacting me directly.
.
not a bad way to go. i know a little communication can go a long way.
thanks for the specifics, inquiring minds wanted to know.
just because i usually like details and i know you have posted it but don't know where and don't remember what it is but what do you have your return policy timeline set to? i have mine still to 14 for everything and i'd go to 7 if the option were there.
i've been personally very happy with so many problem-free deliveries as of late.
@MasonG said:
I will now be blocking any buyer who files a complaint with eBay rather than contacting me directly.
.
not a bad way to go. i know a little communication can go a long way.
I wish more buyers would be willing to make an effort. I'd really prefer to not take this position but the way eBay enforces their policies puts me at risk for fee penalties if I don't.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
thanks for the specifics, inquiring minds wanted to know.
You're welcome.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
just because i usually like details and i know you have posted it but don't know where and don't remember what it is but what do you have your return policy timeline set to?
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
just because i usually like details and i know you have posted it but don't know where and don't remember what it is but what do you have your return policy timeline set to?
Mine's set at 14 days.
i was wondering if that MAY have played into the buyers mindset, even if it isn't a lot of money. while you know you are probably easy to work with and try to be reasonable, buyers and sellers know there are a lot of people on ebay, amongst other places that are not so.
actually, now i think about it, the return windows starts AFTER delivery, so even if it were 3-4 weeks later, the buyer i think should still have some recourse, so now i'm a little surprised and wonder if they actually received the item and if this is a little trick they like to pull? (i can get real suspicious, real fast LOL)
now i need to find some language that states how long a seller has to get an item to a buyer, ESPECIALLY when tracking at least shows some progress before the buyer can spaz out. hmmm
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
just because i usually like details and i know you have posted it but don't know where and don't remember what it is but what do you have your return policy timeline set to?
Mine's set at 14 days.
i was wondering if that MAY have played into the buyers mindset, even if it isn't a lot of money. while you know you are probably easy to work with and try to be reasonable, buyers and sellers know there are a lot of people on ebay, amongst other places that are not so.
Hard to say. The buyer didn't bother to share his thoughts with me.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
actually, now i think about it, the return windows starts AFTER delivery, so even if it were 3-4 weeks later, the buyer i think should still have some recourse, so now i'm a little surprised and wonder if they actually received the item and if this is a little trick they like to pull? (i can get real suspicious, real fast LOL)
I had a lost package claim a number of years ago on an item shipped without tracking. Reviewing feedback left by the buyer, there were 20 (out of 100, I think) on the first page that noted the item wasn't received. If I were to guess, I'd say those were also things shipped without tracking.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
now i need to find some language that states how long a seller has to get an item to a buyer, ESPECIALLY when tracking at least shows some progress before the buyer can spaz out. hmmm
Since I have no control over when the post office is going to deliver a shipment, I'm not going to worry about that.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
now i need to find some language that states how long a seller has to get an item to a buyer, ESPECIALLY when tracking at least shows some progress before the buyer can spaz out. hmmm
Since I have no control over when the post office is going to deliver a shipment, I'm not going to worry about that.
what i'm wondering is IF and when a buyer can even start a case like this while the item(s) is still in transit within a reasonable window ie 4-8 days or so.
these are thankfully, isolated incidents though, so while i'm not going all gung-ho, either for me or someone else, that info will probably come in handy.
Comments
Lol. Yeah, there seems to be an epidemic of those. I actually once had someone claim that 2 months after delivery.
I had 2 cancelations this week: didn't mean to place the order and "found a better price". They were legit since they were shortly after purchase. The 2nd one bothered me a bit (block) because I had accepted his second offer, so he had actually set the price. It was a Pokémon card which I have nothing into so meh...
Generally, I agree with this policy right up until I determine that I'm being deliberately screwed over by a seller. When I KNOW that they went out of their way to hide the coin's problems, then I imply that they'd better add the return shipping as well if they cherish their absurd satisfaction rating.
Poor behavior isn't limited to buyers. There are some sellers that are nothing more than crooks, and these forums are filled with stories of their crooked activity.
"I took this (obvious fake) to two dealers in town and they said it was authentic."
"Here's a picture (of some run-down, cinder-block building) of the 180-yo bank where we found the safe."
No
I had one cancellation this week, the second time for this particular coin in the last two months. Also, the second time for this particular buyer. My coin came up in his search and he bought it based on the price alone without reading the title, description or looking at the picture.
Yes, there are bad actors on both sides. For me (as a seller) my issue is that eBay is highly skewed to favor buyers. There's almost always recourse against an actual bad seller. It's much harder to be protected from bad buyers. I'm very, very confident I do things the right and honest way. It doesn't mean I don't make a mistake, but if I miss something, it's a mistake, not intentional. And if I do make a mistake, I'll cover the costs to make it right and won't play any games to try and avoid that. However, whether I made a mistake or a buyer is just trying to get around paying the costs of a return, I'll handle it very differently if a buyer comes at me at with full force accusing me of being a criminal versus a polite note that lets me know there's a problem. Given all the protections eBay has for buyers, if there's a legitimate issue with something received, I don't think it hurts to send one nice note first and see what comes of it. If the seller tells you to pound sand, go ahead and push back. But even if the problem looks deliberate, perhaps it was just an actual, honest error.
I do occasionally, but seldom from stock photos unless it's something slabbed or from a trusted seller. If it turns out there's a problem that should have been described but wasn't you can still get a return, but if there's a minor issue that i should have caught but missed i just consider it tuition. Issues that should be described are pretty much just cleaning or damage that's not evident in photos, to me.
If a buyer has a problem with a transaction, there's no reason they can't contact the seller and see if things can be worked out without getting eBay involved. eBay keeps track of disputes filed and sellers can have their fees increased and other limits placed on their accounts.
Last month, a buyer filed a dispute because they hadn't received their coin at 1:04AM, eBay responded at 1:08AM to tell me that they settled the dispute in the buyer's favor and refunded the buyer. I had "Cases closed without seller resolution" ding put on my account- because I wasn't online to respond to a complaint between 1:04 and 1:08AM. If the buyer had contacted me directly, I would have taken care of it.
that is really odd. i wonder what premise the buyer and ebay used to "force" the settlement of the dispute through the system like that.
did the tracking ever show as delivered?
also, was it for a standard envelope? (i'm wondering for the sake of time/money if they just "force" a resolution for low-dollar items) IF it was a S.E. situation, you gotta figure ebay knows sellers that use this service a LOT are way ahead of the game both in money and peace of mind because of the tracking, including the buyers. (but this commentary is really only if it was a S.E. shipping situation) t.i.a.
.
i guess the balance i was thinking of is IF s.e. shipping for the sake of cost/time and because of low value, buyers get much faster/easier resolution BUT that would be the disincentive for the seller not a nearly instant easy resolution for the buyer AND a ding. more like in lieu of a ding. but that is my thinking and i don't even know if that is what mason is talking about and i also don't know how s.e. resolution is actually handled. thankfully (yet)
also, logically since we as sellers usually get a week or two to settle disputes, i can see getting a ding for NOT doing our part of keep things moving along towards as amicable a solution as we can BUT if it goes beyond that expiration date with no solution, i can see a ding being issued but with an "instant" unfavorable resolution automatically being issued with NO recourse possible for the seller, especially if no messages have been sent by the buyer and within a reasonable window and not outside the seller's listed return period, an automatic non-res ding seems a bit unfair, even for ebay.
I've had that happen (or something similar) a few times, where I had no realistic window to reply. I was also once told my a customer service rep I shouldn't reply to something... and then it got escalated and I lost. But I called back, moved up the chain, and made a manager listen to a very long phone call (hey, they're all recorded) to confirm I did exactly what I was told to do. The advice was wrong, but they reversed all the penalties (the ding and taking away my money) because I did what I was told to do.
It was for a standard envelope, didn't show as delivered.
I don't know what the process looks like from the buyer's side as I've never initiated a claim for something I've bought. This is the way it went for me:
Seven days after the purchase, I received a notice from eBay that the buyer claimed the package was not received and eBay gave me the option to either refund him or send him a message. I sent a message asking the buyer to contact me in a week to let me know the status of the shipment and if he still hadn't received the coin, I'd refund him. The buyer did not respond to this message.
Two days later, I awoke to an email received from eBay at 1:04AM:
Buyer contacted Customer Service
The buyer has asked eBay Customer Service to review this case and make a final decision.
We'll get back to you within 48 hours.
Four minutes later, I received this email from eBay:
eBay has made a final decision in this case
We reviewed this case and decided to issue the buyer a full refund.
We didn’t receive valid proof of delivery from you. Sellers must provide tracking information showing the item was delivered to the address provided in the order details.
Essentially, I was given no chance to respond to the buyer's claim. I especially enjoyed the "We didn’t receive valid proof of delivery from you" comment, as sellers are never in a position to provide this information and the tracking on a standard envelope shipment is something that's actually done by a business that provides the service through eBay.
Through this whole process, I never heard a word from the buyer. All of this could have been avoided if he had just contacted me to let me know he didn't receive his coin. Since this is how eBay has chosen to manage a complaint like this, I will now be blocking any buyer who files a complaint with eBay rather than contacting me directly.
.
not a bad way to go. i know a little communication can go a long way.
thanks for the specifics, inquiring minds wanted to know.
just because i usually like details and i know you have posted it but don't know where and don't remember what it is but what do you have your return policy timeline set to? i have mine still to 14 for everything and i'd go to 7 if the option were there.
i've been personally very happy with so many problem-free deliveries as of late.
I wish more buyers would be willing to make an effort. I'd really prefer to not take this position but the way eBay enforces their policies puts me at risk for fee penalties if I don't.
You're welcome.
Mine's set at 14 days.
i was wondering if that MAY have played into the buyers mindset, even if it isn't a lot of money. while you know you are probably easy to work with and try to be reasonable, buyers and sellers know there are a lot of people on ebay, amongst other places that are not so.
actually, now i think about it, the return windows starts AFTER delivery, so even if it were 3-4 weeks later, the buyer i think should still have some recourse, so now i'm a little surprised and wonder if they actually received the item and if this is a little trick they like to pull? (i can get real suspicious, real fast LOL)
now i need to find some language that states how long a seller has to get an item to a buyer, ESPECIALLY when tracking at least shows some progress before the buyer can spaz out. hmmm
Hard to say. The buyer didn't bother to share his thoughts with me.
I had a lost package claim a number of years ago on an item shipped without tracking. Reviewing feedback left by the buyer, there were 20 (out of 100, I think) on the first page that noted the item wasn't received. If I were to guess, I'd say those were also things shipped without tracking.
Since I have no control over when the post office is going to deliver a shipment, I'm not going to worry about that.
what i'm wondering is IF and when a buyer can even start a case like this while the item(s) is still in transit within a reasonable window ie 4-8 days or so.
these are thankfully, isolated incidents though, so while i'm not going all gung-ho, either for me or someone else, that info will probably come in handy.