A question for sellers on eBay or BST that don't accept returns.
MWallace
Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm sincerely curious. Do you yourself buy coins sight unseen via a photo, or even a stock photo, with a no return policy?
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Even though ebay allows returns for most every reason, regardless of good or bad, I do not buy from sellers with no returns. I just feel it is a stay away sign. I'm sure that some honest sellers feel that they are heading off problems, but I, for one, will never know.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Lol. Love the question. I wonder if everyone will answer honestly.
I understand. I virtually never buy from a seller that doesn't allow returns even though I know eBay usually sides with the buyer. My curiosity is if a buyer, dealer, or whatever, that states "No Returns" in their listings, would just keep a coin that they didn't like in hand if the seller states "No Returns".
I don't blame sellers for the policy one bit. Too many people using eBay and other sites as an approval service.
Never. There are too many ways to find what you think you want, and to have a chance to examine it in hand to be sure.
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I question if Ebay really allows sellers to sell items with an absolute no return policy. I believe if you can prove the seller misrepresented the item or the items shown is not the item received the seller has to accept a return.
I never look when I buy a coin as I know what I'm buying. Plus, you can make a return on ebay for any reason so it does not matter.
As a seller on ebay for over 23 years, I have always had a no return policy as it use to be an auction site. I still have that policy. It may prevent the approval service aspect. Buyers know they can return a coin for any reason so it does not matter (much).
It's clear that few are understanding what I'm asking.
I don't consider buying from a photo as sight unseen since that term was when we used to buy from a description only.
I've always offered a return option on both, but no longer sell on eBay.
I have no problem buying modern PCGS MS or PR 69/70 coins sight unseen with or without a photo. These are commodities.
When I sell PCGS 69/70 modern coins on eBay, I don’t offer returns but I do post photos of the actual coin for sale. If asked, I would accept a return. On all other coins, I offer a no hassle, no questions asked 14 day return period.
I would never buy sight unseen or from stock photos. I've bought coins off eBay, assuming the seller posted quality photos, states; "the coin pictured is the coin you will receive" and WITH a return policy... If I'm understanding your question correctly.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I'll try and answer you succinctly- As I offer a return including return postage it doesn't apply.
I also never check and see if the seller offers a return or not on eBay as I rarely return anything
and in that incident where I do it for a valid reason that eBay allows the return without hesitation regardless
of the seller's policy.
peacockcoins
I wouldn't even bother buying from a stock photo as the chances of getting catfished are just to great.
fwiw, i have asked in advance of sellers advertising no returns, if they would extend me the courtesy and usually they've said yes but i really don't recall doing a return in those situations. (agree that SNAD or whatever does override this but that is usually a road only for the most dire of circumstances and i don't recall buying many items that fall into that category)
also, there are really only a couple people i've done business with in-person that don't accept returns and one of them is 100% not going to do it but the balance with that person, is they also do not return items. i can appreciate that standpoint. make a decision, live with it.
despite going up and down this road many times, i STILL feel i'm way ahead of the game by accepting returns and so long as i do a good job with pics, descriptions and communication, there really aren't any problems.
i know my post doesn't conform to the OP intent but wanted to share some experience with those in question that choose the path they do.
I bought a raw Lexington Commemorative from a "no return" seller on Ebay. The coin appeared to have mottled toning. When I got it the toning was heavy PVC residue. I was pissed but nicely informed the seller he could make it right and take it back or his 100% feedback was going to take a big hit. Needless to say he refunded the $$$ and I left no feedback. If a coin is certified then I can see a no return policy but never again will I buy a raw coin with no returns allowed.
While I don’t see it discussed very often, I think there’s a significant difference between buying from a fixed price listing vs. in an auction. Having been both a buyer and a seller with respect to each of those types of venues, I can appreciate that the considerations and terms of sale can be very different.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I noticed you did not answer the question at all. Are you unable to answer the question honestly?
I am not an ebay seller so I cannot answer the question.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The question was asked of sellers who don't accept returns. Maybe he does.
As an eBay seller I accept returns, I average 1 return per year. So I don't get why a seller would turn off buyers by not accepting returns
I offer free returns, so I didn't feel the question applied to me.
Further, I would buy from anyone... with a CC.... because of its protection. I wouldn't F&F anyone who wasn't actually family.
For the record, I got a puppy last month from a breeder in PA whom I did not know. I asked her if I could add 3.5% to the $500 deposit and use PayPal. She agreed. I did it exactly so I could file a chargeback if there were a problem.
And for the record, I think the people with no returns are both kidding themselves and often hypocrites.
Yup.
What breed of puppy?
Sounds correct, I just don't know your ebay seller name so did not know if you did or did not accept returns.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Newfoundland. I lost my 12 year old earlier in the month. I didn't want my 8 year old to be alone.
Often hypocrites maybe, but not always.
My son has a strict no return policy for stuff sold on eBay and has 100% feedback, so far it has not affected anything per se.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Not sure what a "strict" no return policy would mean with ebay, as most all returns are pretty much approved by ebay regardless of policies. But to say that because he has 100% feedback, does not account for lost sales due to folks bypassing his ebay site. I feel like it may be larger than you are taking into account, then that's just my opinion. I feel that ebay should not allow returns for reasons such as, don't like it, found cheaper elsewhere, price of bullion fell and any other reason other than item not as advertised. I have been an ebay seller for 19 years and have a 100% feedback, but that can go away for no good reason pretty quickly. Good photos and honest descriptions are the best prevention for returns, again in my opinion.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Mike to answer your question, NO.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I don't have an official return policy on eBay because I don't want people to think there's no problem buying something and sending it back a few weeks later. Yes, I know they can file a SNAD and there's nothing I can do about it, but I think there are honest buyers (who wouldn't file an untoward SNAD) who may make a return decision much more quickly if I don't offer them time. With that said, I don't offer returns on bullion, and I would also buy bullion without a return since either it is what it is, or there's a significant problem and eBay will step in.
As to whether I'd buy a general coin without a return, it depends on what it is. I hold myself to the same standard I hope my buyers hold themselves to, and I don't consider SNAD a blanket return policy. I'd use it if something is wildly misdescribed, but if a coin just isn't quite what I was hoping for, but not because the image or description were manipulated/particularly misleading, then that's on me. If I'm not sure on the coin but think I might not like it even if the description is spot-on, I won't buy it.
That said, not long ago I did buy a piece I'd long been looking for. It was listed with no return policy and I had some questions based on a few things I saw in the photos. I asked the seller and we had a nice back and forth. Without me asking, he offered a return policy when it got to the point where I'd never be 100% sure until I saw it in hand, but he also could tell I very much wanted the coin as long as it was what I was looking for, and I wasn't just trying to get him to waste his time. I bought it, he sent it, I kept it. Would I have bought it with no return? Unlikely. Would I have bought it with no return after our email exchange? I may have taken the chance given its rarity. Did I appreciate the return option? Very much so.
As a seller, I'd be happy to entertain returns for anything sold that I can determine was not tampered with by the buyer, e.g., a coin in TPG plastic. On the other hand, something like a raw set I'd like to not accept returns. Let's say I sell a complete raw wheat set, the buyer receives it, pulls out the svdb and replaces it with a vdb, then claims they received it that way... now I'm probably going to lose out big time because ebay will side with the buyer and I have no way to prove that what they received was as listed. Thoughts?
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The "strictly" no return policy has not been tested in the past three years that he has been at it.
It's just a side gig where he sells soccer jerseys and shoes primarily, along with the occassional extras from my collection and certain mint products (he is basically a flipper).
Makes it a point to reiterate that no returns will be taken and accepts all additional info requests before finalizing sales.
So far all his customers have been very happy with the communication and service provided by him because he sends requested info/pics on ebay messaging as well as on whatever preferred social media of the client if anyone wants to chat one-on-one.
Cheers.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Agree. On the flip side, I have no problem buying a bulk deal of junk silver, etc. with a no return policy. But for a tough collector coin where eye appeal and defects are critical to the valuation, no way.
When I sell on BST I have not put a return policy in writing and have never been asked about my return policy. Until reading this, i have never thought about it. However, I will put it on all future sale listings in the future. @MWallace Thanks mike, This is the right thing to do.
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I have no problem with returns, have done around a million on ebay and have found that the way they address problems of various types to be reasonable. The "no return" policy should register as an unfriendly one way type of thinking by certain sellers who do not stand behind what they sell. I find it very strange that certain sellers of raw coins want to retaliate against buyers of raw material once it becomes clear that what was sold was misrepresented. Contracts require good faith, sound business practice and accountability.
Here is our return policy on E-Bay.
"Returns are permitted within 14 days (in original slab) if item is misrepresented. Purchase price will be returned. Buyer pays for return shipping".
We probably have shipped a couple hundred DE's over the past 4 years. We had 3 returns. We had one buyer contact me and gave me the excuse that they bought the wrong coin. Another stated that the picture was darker than the scan showed. A third told me that the coin looks counterfeit (I bought the coin from one of the three largest sellers on E-Bay and the buyer had rather small feedback). we negotiated with one and took back the other two. My partner (E-Bay,) paid the return shipping.
We had quite a number of potential buyers inquire that they needed extremely high resolution pictures (which we can't provide and is a red flag for potential problems. I advised them respectfully, that the coin will probably have too many defects for their liking and so I, myself would pass. I do not mind walking away from potential sales.
If someone needs to inspect a physical coin in person then we're not the outlet to buy from. There are stores and shows to inspect coins in person.
We try the best as we can to represent the item fairly. We disclose any item that might not be obvious to the potential buyer. If too many coins do come back then either the E-Bay buyers have become too difficult to deal with or we can't service the customers properly. In either case we will close the store.
I'm sincerely curious. Do you yourself buy coins sight unseen via a photo, or even a stock photo, with a no return policy?
Sight unseen? Always.
From a stock photo? Sometimes. Depending on price.
I'm only buying lower priced DE's.
I have a "no questions asked" return policy, accordingly, I refuse to buy from someone with no returns. They'll never get my business.
Thank you for actually answering my original question. You're doing the right thing.
You don't even need ebay to approve. You just file a charge back with your CC. Then you actuality have to hope the CC company forces a return rather than just refunding the buyer.
I’ve purchased certified coins from ‘no return’ sellers, but I need good images and highly rated sellers. I think some of these sellers grew tired of all the eBay buyers using them as an approval service.
Dave
My few eBay listings say no returns because I don’t want it turning into an approval service. With such low volume (and items I’ve decided don’t have a spot in my collection), it doesn’t make financial sense to offer returns. Now if someone reasonable asks (reasonable meaning they don’t have a history of leaving multiple negative feedbacks to sellers and their message is polite), I’ll be open to allowing the return privilege.
As a buyer, no returns hasn’t stopped me. Most of my best coins have come from eBay and other auction venues (without viewing any of those in hand). I’ve bought some duds and used those as tuition (it wasn’t the seller’s fault that I was overly optimistic on the coin). The only coin return I’ve made over the last decade was a milk spotted numismatic set from Apmex (not bullion and not advertised as milk spotted). I also had eBay refund a purchase that never arrived and Apmex refund partially for a scratched proof coin (again not advertised as scratched-they discounted it closer to bullion price).
I bought many from sb and ha, they both have no return policy which I never return any. I also bought many from eBay and I never check their return policy when I buy, I also not offer any return policy when I sell and many buy from me around the world, some even use wire to buy. They know I can be trusted and I only sell graded coins 99%. Once in a while I might sell a coin with PCGS body bag to make sure the buyer knows exactly what he is getting and I stated the coin can’t be grade by PCGS or ngc and of course with no return, sold as is.
As a seller, I don't like the thought of a return policy. It is the buyer's responsibility to decide whether or not they would like to take the risk of purchasing the item. In reality, I am willing to accept a return. I read on these forums that many buyers make sure there are return policies before they make an Ebay purchase, so I do a 14 day buyer pays shipping return policy. Haven't had a problem yet.
I just purchased a $1000 coin from terrible photos and a no return policy. I open up the package tomorrow, I am excited to see what exactly comes. Sometimes the best coins have the worst photos and sellers that have no idea what they are doing.
I would never buy a coin totally sight unseen via stock photos or no photos at all without a return policy. It is a risk I am not willing to take.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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A stock photo or no photo, I don't buy the coin. If they say it's the actual coin in the photo and I like it then I'd buy it. No return policies I don't take seriously because if the coin is garbage compared to the photo, obviously I'm gonna send it back. I've only sent one coin back. The person said it was an error but turned out to be a coin that had been pressed against another coin.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Trust me, no return policy will block most of the flippers. Most real buyers knows exactly what they are getting. The real coin buyer will not get turn away by no return policy.
It IS an approval service, created entirely by the sellers themselves, if the sellers only take "glamour shots" without mentioning and/or photographing the coins problems, if any. It becomes a disapproval service if the seller's description and photos are deliberately misleading. I don't return a coin unless it's been clearly misrepresented in the description or photos.
I think some of the buyers grew tired of all the eBay sellers using them as suckers upon which to dump their bad coins.
I have had a coin returned because "changed my mind", "too small", "forgot I had one", "just got a tax bill" etc. None of that has anything to do with "glamor shots". Sometimes it is the BUYER but the seller who is the problem.
If buyers abuse reasonable returns they should be responsible for costs associated with the transaction. Restocking fees make sense in some cases. Of course ebay is competing with Amazon so don't want to make returns a problem.
I've have dozens of transactions here on the BST... I have not had anyone want a return, except one time, which was a learning experience...
I traded a forum member a $5 Gold liberty that turned out to be fake. I learned the importance of Weight on these and reversed the trade immediately. I was able to bring the coin back to where I got it and they made me whole , and I bought a digital scale that went to 2 decimals.
2022 I returned two coins from Ebay, and glad the sellers accepted the returns. Both coins had sub-par pictures , but one was a top pop PCGS gold - when i got it in hand it had particles, hairlines, hazing, and some strange toning. I paid the $50 return postage and insurance for peace of mind.
It's all about what the people want...
Don't forget "my kid got on the computer and placed some bids without my permission"