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Let's see some mirrors

I'm removing some of my Morgan's from old flips and placing them in plastic capsules which I like much better.
I came across one of these.
You can literally see yourself on this reverse. The obverse is decent but man talk about a mirror. No doubt many of you have seen better but this was a nice surprise while going through my old box of morgans.



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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    Those are beautiful. Are you selling the morgan?

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower He's got amazing proof Morgans that us mere mortals can not afford even if he was selling

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @Watchtower He's got amazing proof Morgans that us mere mortals can not afford even if he was selling

    They’re in the permanent collection- my favorites

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    Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You could put your contacts in using the fields of this coin —

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 717 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the @OAKSTAR idea.

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Floridafacelifter.... That 1879 is incredible..... Absolutely amazing... Wow... what mirror fields. Cheers, RickO

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    ... That 1879 is incredible..... Absolutely amazing... Wow... what mirror fields. Cheers, RickO



    do you see what is missing from the obv?

    it really gives credence that they may have spruced up dies for business strikes and visa versa as there really isn't any reason to do what they did to that die seeing as how low the mintages were for coins like that. even with 2 strikes, there is just no way the dies would suffer enough to have to do much to them.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @ricko said:
    ... That 1879 is incredible..... Absolutely amazing... Wow... what mirror fields. Cheers, RickO



    do you see what is missing from the obv?

    it really gives credence that they may have spruced up dies for business strikes and visa versa as there really isn't any reason to do what they did to that die seeing as how low the mintages were for coins like that. even with 2 strikes, there is just no way the dies would suffer enough to have to do much to them.

    I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here Lance. Proofs from this time period were struck once, and as little as thirty strikes could have a major impact on the die condition.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @ricko said:
    ... That 1879 is incredible..... Absolutely amazing... Wow... what mirror fields. Cheers, RickO



    do you see what is missing from the obv?

    it really gives credence that they may have spruced up dies for business strikes and visa versa as there really isn't any reason to do what they did to that die seeing as how low the mintages were for coins like that. even with 2 strikes, there is just no way the dies would suffer enough to have to do much to them.

    I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here Lance. Proofs from this time period were struck once, and as little as thirty strikes could have a major impact on the die condition.



    if proofs from the 20th century are struck only once (even if just some), it is the first i'm reading it (iirc) and since we weren't actually there and most of us don't have the required experience to know precisely about how the dies fared, other than tracking die states and quantities on coins (and maybe a few mint records), i'll have to disagree with you about single striking 30 coins having significant impact during the course of "normal" production, pressure etc.

    BUT, that being said, i still leave my comment about what is missing on the obv (not a big deal and just having fun with it) whatever course of events lead up to it. :)

    appreciate fact-checking me. :)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @ricko said:
    ... That 1879 is incredible..... Absolutely amazing... Wow... what mirror fields. Cheers, RickO



    do you see what is missing from the obv?

    it really gives credence that they may have spruced up dies for business strikes and visa versa as there really isn't any reason to do what they did to that die seeing as how low the mintages were for coins like that. even with 2 strikes, there is just no way the dies would suffer enough to have to do much to them.

    I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here Lance. Proofs from this time period were struck once, and as little as thirty strikes could have a major impact on the die condition.



    if proofs from the 20th century are struck only once (even if just some), it is the first i'm reading it (iirc) and since we weren't actually there and most of us don't have the required experience to know precisely about how the dies fared, other than tracking die states and quantities on coins (and maybe a few mint records), i'll have to disagree with you about single striking 30 coins having significant impact during the course of "normal" production, pressure etc.

    BUT, that being said, i still leave my comment about what is missing on the obv (not a big deal and just having fun with it) whatever course of events lead up to it. :)

    appreciate fact-checking me. :)

    Roger Burdette has done extensive research on how proofs were struck in this time period, and I agree with his conclusions that they were only struck once on a hydraulic press. If they were struck more than once, a large amount of coins would show evidence of double striking from slight movement as the dies left the coin, but that’s not the case. Proofs begin to be struck twice in the 70s around where the coins all are made as DCAMs (laser frost). The presses used at that time could strike coins more than once without the dies leaving the coin.

    In addition, I’ll use my favorite era of proofs to show how fast dies wear in a medal press :smile:. Cameo proofs from 36-42 went from frosted to no longer cameo in as little as 20-30 strikes. This “breaking in” period of the dies is where they rapidly conform to the surfaces of the planchets being struck. If the planchets are highly polished, the dies will conform to be highly polished. If the planchets are dull, the dies will conform to be dull. Hydraulic press pressure also caused the metal to flow differently than in a high speed toggle press, so it’s pointless to compare the two. The distinct difference in the amount of coins both types of dies usually produce before failure is indicative of this (proof dies usually produce fractions of what circulation dies do, because of the difference in press.)

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @ricko said:
    ... That 1879 is incredible..... Absolutely amazing... Wow... what mirror fields. Cheers, RickO



    do you see what is missing from the obv?

    it really gives credence that they may have spruced up dies for business strikes and visa versa as there really isn't any reason to do what they did to that die seeing as how low the mintages were for coins like that. even with 2 strikes, there is just no way the dies would suffer enough to have to do much to them.

    I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here Lance. Proofs from this time period were struck once, and as little as thirty strikes could have a major impact on the die condition.



    if proofs from the 20th century are struck only once (even if just some), it is the first i'm reading it (iirc) and since we weren't actually there and most of us don't have the required experience to know precisely about how the dies fared, other than tracking die states and quantities on coins (and maybe a few mint records), i'll have to disagree with you about single striking 30 coins having significant impact during the course of "normal" production, pressure etc.

    BUT, that being said, i still leave my comment about what is missing on the obv (not a big deal and just having fun with it) whatever course of events lead up to it. :)

    appreciate fact-checking me. :)

    Roger Burdette has done extensive research on how proofs were struck in this time period, and I agree with his conclusions that they were only struck once on a hydraulic press. If they were struck more than once, a large amount of coins would show evidence of double striking from slight movement as the dies left the coin, but that’s not the case. Proofs begin to be struck twice in the 70s around where the coins all are made as DCAMs (laser frost). The presses used at that time could strike coins more than once without the dies leaving the coin.

    In addition, I’ll use my favorite era of proofs to show how fast dies wear in a medal press :smile:. Cameo proofs from 36-42 went from frosted to no longer cameo in as little as 20-30 strikes. This “breaking in” period of the dies is where they rapidly conform to the surfaces of the planchets being struck. If the planchets are highly polished, the dies will conform to be highly polished. If the planchets are dull, the dies will conform to be dull. Hydraulic press pressure also caused the metal to flow differently than in a high speed toggle press, so it’s pointless to compare the two. The distinct difference in the amount of coins both types of dies usually produce before failure is indicative of this (proof dies usually produce fractions of what circulation dies do, because of the difference in press.)

    concisely and what appears to be accurately stated!

    i will work to look over some more of RB's research for proof striking during the 20th century for sure since you speak so confidently. :)

    i have ALWAYS wondered if the proofs were struck twice for so many issues, WHY i don't recall seeing an amount of strike doubling one would expect, even if it were VERY minor and sometimes even just appearing almost as actual doubling. something akin to the morgan dollar stars quin/sex/sept "doubling" being so minor YET, obvious for what they are.

    i was aware about special presses often (if not always) striking proofs for large periods. perhaps this prohibited the need for proofs to be struck more than once.

    nice work. :+1:

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    here is a different presentation of mirror fields. ;) to get on-topic.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ll add a few too:

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My last purchase of 2022.

    Collector, occasional seller

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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,362 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Prooflike "business strikes" (BS)......I'm only 8 coins shy of completing a 1938PDS to 1970DS Jefferson nickel collection where every date is PL or at least semi PL. I have 69 + 1 out of 77 dates. Which excludes the BS of the 3 1965 to 1967 dates since the SMS coins are not considered as proof coins but prooflike. So how could there be prooflike BS for those dates. This explains the +1 in my total coins I have, a 1965 prooflike BS. How is that possible?? Die polish lines a SMS die receives being prepared to strike the BS side of coins for that date.
    Only the 39D, 46D, 47D, 48D, 49D, 50D, 51D, 63D are needed. All Denver dates, figure that!

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    image

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    ThreeCentSilverFLThreeCentSilverFL Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭✭✭



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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    image

    that is quite a design! (although i'm on the fence about the 9995 platinum...but probably a good thing because they are fairly esoteric imo)

    imo, we don't see often enough, those enigmatic platinums!

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @BryceM said:
    image

    that is quite a design! (although i'm on the fence about the 9995 platinum...but probably a good thing because they are fairly esoteric imo)

    imo, we don't see often enough, those enigmatic platinums!

    If only they had an obverse as nice as that reverse.

    Collector, occasional seller

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    AtcarrollAtcarroll Posts: 343 ✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @ricko said:
    ... That 1879 is incredible..... Absolutely amazing... Wow... what mirror fields. Cheers, RickO



    do you see what is missing from the obv?

    it really gives credence that they may have spruced up dies for business strikes and visa versa as there really isn't any reason to do what they did to that die seeing as how low the mintages were for coins like that. even with 2 strikes, there is just no way the dies would suffer enough to have to do much to them.

    I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here Lance. Proofs from this time period were struck once, and as little as thirty strikes could have a major impact on the die condition.

    They polished the drapery right off liberty's elbow.

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a great looking Morgan, @Watchtower.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Proofs and copper are my kryptonite... Wish I could capture the mirror effect with my good camera.


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    vulcanizevulcanize Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hopefully not too late to the party.
    My lame Picture taking skills do not do full justice to this 1986 Ellis Island Dollar.


    :blush:

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    bigtime36bigtime36 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭


    Collect raw morgans, walkers, mercs, SLQ, barber q. Looking at getting into earlier date coins pre 1900s.

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    mark_dakmark_dak Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know many collectors do not care for the Eisenhower dollar but I love them, especially the silver coins with a sweet cameo look. Own a bunch, both raw and slabbed - here's one of the raw examples.


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    AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭✭✭


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    MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2023 11:11AM

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:


    you know, after viewing a lot of patterns this evening, the bass sale, seeing lots of die breaks and whatnot, i gotta say, if they weren't striking patterns in secret by the hundreds/thousands+, those dies experiencing such issues so (presumably) quickly, i gotta say, i see what you said about the dies losing their qualities for various reasons, certainly does seem far more feasible. even in the face of specially prepared planchets and/or dies.

    at the same time, it is a yet ANOTHER issue i can pick on for the earlier mints because if the normal business strike dies produced what they did and still kept a decent level of quality, i mean some serious ROI, then i wonder how they did so poorly in their analysis with getting so fewer coins per die use for the proofs when they aren't say, 100x better (usually) or 1000x. granted, that is really just a bean counter perspective and i know there were other considerations.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @FlyingAl said:


    you know, after viewing a lot of patterns this evening, the bass sale, seeing lots of die breaks and whatnot, i gotta say, if they weren't striking patterns in secret by the hundreds/thousands+, those dies experiencing such issues so (presumably) quickly, i gotta say, i see what you said about the dies losing their qualities for various reasons, certainly does seem far more feasible. even in the face of specially prepared planchets and/or dies.

    at the same time, it is a yet ANOTHER issue i can pick on for the earlier mints because if the normal business strike dies produced what they did and still kept a decent level of quality, i mean some serious ROI, then i wonder how they did so poorly in their analysis with getting so fewer coins per die use for the proofs when they aren't say, 100x better (usually) or 1000x. granted, that is really just a bean counter perspective and i know there were other considerations.

    Glad you saw my point.

    Dies could last longer or shorter based on preparation. A good anneal would mean that it would last longer. Poor die steel means it would last shorter. Minor changes to many variables that one could barely notice can be the difference between 25k coins for a circulation die and 100k.

    Proof dies generally lasted shorter times due to the higher pressure and different use (medal press and slower striking speed).

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @FlyingAl said:


    you know, after viewing a lot of patterns this evening, the bass sale, seeing lots of die breaks and whatnot, i gotta say, if they weren't striking patterns in secret by the hundreds/thousands+, those dies experiencing such issues so (presumably) quickly, i gotta say, i see what you said about the dies losing their qualities for various reasons, certainly does seem far more feasible. even in the face of specially prepared planchets and/or dies.

    at the same time, it is a yet ANOTHER issue i can pick on for the earlier mints because if the normal business strike dies produced what they did and still kept a decent level of quality, i mean some serious ROI, then i wonder how they did so poorly in their analysis with getting so fewer coins per die use for the proofs when they aren't say, 100x better (usually) or 1000x. granted, that is really just a bean counter perspective and i know there were other considerations.

    Glad you saw my point.

    Dies could last longer or shorter based on preparation. A good anneal would mean that it would last longer. Poor die steel means it would last shorter. Minor changes to many variables that one could barely notice can be the difference between 25k coins for a circulation die and 100k.

    Proof dies generally lasted shorter times due to the higher pressure and different use (medal press and slower striking speed).

    I think you have it reversed. Annealing softens steel, so a good quench and temper would make a die hard but still tough to withstand repeated stress application.
    My educated guess is that getting the last ~5% or so of detail from the die to the coin probably requires a significantly higher force. On the S-N plot (cycles to failure for a given stress in a material) this could be the difference between hundreds of thousands of cycles or just a few hundred, or fewer. You are correct that the composition(quality) of the steel will have a big impact on die life, a small difference in carbon equivalent will significantly alter hardenability.

    I'm sure @dcarr can explain die preparation to all of us :)

    Collector, occasional seller

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    I think you have it reversed. Annealing softens steel, so a good quench and temper would make a die hard but still tough to withstand repeated stress application.
    My educated guess is that getting the last ~5% or so of detail from the die to the coin probably requires a significantly higher force. On the S-N plot (cycles to failure for a given stress in a material) this could be the difference between hundreds of thousands of cycles or just a few hundred, or fewer. You are correct that the composition(quality) of the steel will have a big impact on die life, a small difference in carbon equivalent will significantly alter hardenability.

    I'm sure @dcarr can explain die preparation to all of us :)

    i presume you are quoting FlyingAl

    there are mint records that i've seen from part of RB's work (here and/or vamworld as he is active there) of the mints talking about these very things.

    it is nice to read some more about annealing as usually i just see it worded as improperly annealed which doesn't give information about if it was too much or too little of something. so anneal is basically to soften and temper is to harden?

    +1 to the dcarr comment. :)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @FlyingAl said:


    you know, after viewing a lot of patterns this evening, the bass sale, seeing lots of die breaks and whatnot, i gotta say, if they weren't striking patterns in secret by the hundreds/thousands+, those dies experiencing such issues so (presumably) quickly, i gotta say, i see what you said about the dies losing their qualities for various reasons, certainly does seem far more feasible. even in the face of specially prepared planchets and/or dies.

    at the same time, it is a yet ANOTHER issue i can pick on for the earlier mints because if the normal business strike dies produced what they did and still kept a decent level of quality, i mean some serious ROI, then i wonder how they did so poorly in their analysis with getting so fewer coins per die use for the proofs when they aren't say, 100x better (usually) or 1000x. granted, that is really just a bean counter perspective and i know there were other considerations.

    Glad you saw my point.

    Dies could last longer or shorter based on preparation. A good anneal would mean that it would last longer. Poor die steel means it would last shorter. Minor changes to many variables that one could barely notice can be the difference between 25k coins for a circulation die and 100k.

    Proof dies generally lasted shorter times due to the higher pressure and different use (medal press and slower striking speed).

    I think you have it reversed. Annealing softens steel, so a good quench and temper would make a die hard but still tough to withstand repeated stress application.
    My educated guess is that getting the last ~5% or so of detail from the die to the coin probably requires a significantly higher force. On the S-N plot (cycles to failure for a given stress in a material) this could be the difference between hundreds of thousands of cycles or just a few hundred, or fewer. You are correct that the composition(quality) of the steel will have a big impact on die life, a small difference in carbon equivalent will significantly alter hardenability.

    I'm sure @dcarr can explain die preparation to all of us :)

    Correct on all counts - but if the die was heated too hot during annealing, that could also have an affect on die life. At least that’s what I understand from what I’ve heard.

    So many factors! :smile:

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    GooberGoober Posts: 980 ✭✭✭

    For those that remember Carl Wohlforth this is a coin he sold me and joked he always wanted back. Hard to get both a shot of the mirrors and the color.

    Prost!

    Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.

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