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Unbelievable Morgan gets straight grade...and a high one to boot!

Before I start, could this possibly be die polishing marks? This is not mine. This coin looks VERY HARSHLY cleaned with very obvious swirl marks all around the obverse and reverse as well. I know it's hard to properly distinguish from these pics, but could this be actual die polish lines and not a cleaning? This is a 1921 MS65 PCGS, btw.


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    ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,760 ✭✭✭✭

    I don't know this series, but based on the image of Liberty's chin, I'm thinking die polish. The fine scratches appear to go across the fields and under the chin.

    But if the images are true to how the coin looks in hand, it isn't pretty.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
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    NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,989 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Die polish, a lot of it.

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    I guess it would be neat to have then. I kind of like the oddball ones. It sure is ugly, tho.

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2, 2023 9:23AM

    I've seen lots of YouTube videos about the subject. It's shocking but likely that those are from a die polish. It's a classic example of it but to the extreme for sure and totally understandable why anyone would ask if it were cleaned. This is a case of buy the coin not the holder. For a 1921 morgan you can find much nicer looking Morgan's cheap that have more eye appeal then that one. However, I am certain that some Morgan collects once advanced would love to own that coin as a specimen of one that has been pushed by a severely polished die. If I were collecting a type set that wouldn't be for me.

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    Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely die polish lines - it probably has an associated VAM that could be associated with those lines. Cleaning lines looks different (convex versus concave lines) and will extend up over the relief from the fields, these lines end at the field and do not extend over the chin, for example, or the lettering.
    I actually like die polishing lines —

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin!

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    that is why it can be difficult to discern the difference from certain images and even more so if one coin actually has both DPL (die polish lines) and PLS (parallel line scratches) and the reason is very simple, it is the same process that creates both. the only difference being one is done to the die and one is done to the coin.

    this process on the die can take a coin that goes from DMPL (1) at the start, slowing wearing down to a PL (2), then to just a regular business strike (3) and then they work on the die a lot and it can come back up to PL (4) status but the tools must be a bit different for state 1 and 2 vs stage 4 as stage 1 and 2 are nice and clean but stage 4 PL coins will OBVIOUSLY have tons of DPL indicating different tools and/or processes from state 1 & state 4.

    i'll try to do some vamming on it as it doesn't look familiar but with 6000+ vams, it is no wonder. ;)

    ok. i concede defeat on this one. too many to look through with polished obverses. after looking at the full obv/rev images form the auction site, i didn't notice anything unique enough to try and track down the vam. perhaps someone else can see what i missed?

    http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/21_S_Polished_Obverse_Varieties
    https://www.davidlawrence.com/product/1694430/#
    https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36612037

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That looks like a case of heavy die polish. Additionally, I don’t see anything “unbelievable” about the coin.or the grade and it looks appealing, not “ugly” to me.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely die polish. I would go with "really cool" instead of "ugly".

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin to have

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree, cool coin. The 1921 comes that way often I’ve seen.

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The tipoff to those being die polish lines and not cleaning is because they are on the surface only, and don't extend into the recess of the die.

    Pretty heavy, too.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cheezbean said:
    I guess it would be neat to have then. I kind of like the oddball ones. It sure is ugly, tho.

    Coins with significant die polish can be quite appealing to many collectors. I don't mind them.

    Many happy BST transactions
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    MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Die polish for sure and it's possible the surfaces might have a PL look. None of the images shown depict the coin as natural so I suppose the lighting is just way too intense, exaggerated to show the lines.

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2023 11:38PM

    Die polishing.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency

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