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Should I pass on this 1946 MS 66 CAC Rd Lincoln because of this issue?

WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭
edited December 31, 2022 7:08PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I was bidding on this coin because I liked the flash and pretty color on the obverse especially. However the soft strike on the E Puribus part of the small lettering on the top left reverse and top of one, has made me pause to reconsider. Would this be a big problem for you as to not bid on this coin for your collection? Your thoughts much appreciated.

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Comments

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I would pass and look for a stronger strike. Plenty of these to choose from with better definition.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I’m buying a condition rarity, I’m a lot pickier about strike than I am with absolute rarities. With that being said, @MFeld pretty much nailed it, it’s about how much tolerance YOU have to that specific issue. have a low tolerance for spots and weak strikes but I don’t mind other minor issues. All personal taste

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,804 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I personally would pass. Ultimately it is your choice.

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would either pass or buy it at a discounted price. There are 840 in 66 RD graded by PCGS alone. It would all depend on the price for this one.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you can live with it, get it.

    The obverse is really nice and clean and nick free.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,760 ✭✭✭✭

    I would live with it. When I was an avid collector of high grade Lincolns, the weak O in ONE was a constant problem with post WW2 pieces. I own a 1946-P Lincoln in MS67RD and it has a similar weak O.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It wouldn't bother me at all. Looks like a wonderful '46-P copper. Nice and bright.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,527 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think you would be asking if it did not bother you. For me it's all about the strike, so it would be a no go.

    Donato

    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

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  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,751 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are hundreds or thousands of MS66 and MS67 Lincolns graded with the weakness you see on the rev under market grading. If this is just single purchase type coin then (imo) it would be better to wait for a more fully struck example, it is a common coin and there are many to choose from. If you were just struck by the flashiness and this is just an impulse purchase and the price is decent then sure go for it. Also if you are putting together a date or date/mm set finding 100% fully struck red coins will require quite a healthy pocketbook, so even many of the top Lincoln collections have some coins with this area of weakness.

    So again it really depends on what your reasoning is for this purchase, I like the look of the coin and would be happy to own it at the right price.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,805 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's just opposite the shoulder on the opposing high point of the design. The shoulder looks pretty good and that would be my main concern. That strike weakness in no way precludes a 66 grade and actually is very common.

    If the price is right I'd go for it.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pass.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    we can't know your collecting goals w/o telling us, so i cannot answer whether or not you should pass but i wouldn't let something so minor stop me from buying it. it is just too common an occurrence on lincolns for me to get bent out of shape about it. similar to not buying a morgan with some flat hair above the ear.

    one can probably afford to be picky though due to the availability.

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  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It doesn’t phase me, but my experience has usually been if it gives me pause when buying it, I’ll probably bother even more when it comes time to sell it. With a common coin, there is no reason to settle.

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2022 6:02PM

    Thanks guys for your opinions so far.
    I might use it as a type coin but I don’t think I mind the weakness that much as it is minor and on the small lettering not the larger lettering on the reverse.
    What do you think is a fair price to pay for the coin? BYTW The coin is CAC Approved

  • TheRegulatorTheRegulator Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭

    I think the earlier die state trumps the less than perfect strike.

    The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:
    Thanks guys for your opinions so far.
    I might use it as a type coin but I don’t think I mind the weakness that much as it is minor and on the small lettering not the larger lettering on the reverse.
    What do you think is a fair price to pay for the coin? BYTW The coin is CAC Approved

    I wouldn’t pay a premium for it and most likely there would be a CAC premium if that’s what you’re asking.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,751 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:
    What do you think is a fair price to pay for the coin? BYTW The coin is CAC Approved

    For this date and grade anything under $100 would be a great price for a CAC approved coin. Depending on where it is being sold (auction vs fixed price) I would expect to pay around $120; a non CAC coin would likely be $70-$80.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2022 8:56PM

    I wouldn't be bothered by it but you're the one who has to live with it.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • erscoloerscolo Posts: 481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2022 9:41PM

    The Philadelphia issues of 1956 to 1954 have their challenges. To this day I do not have a 1951, 1952 or 1953 because of these challenges which include strike quality. I have a complete set of MS66 RD from 1932 to 1975 with the exception of the three listed above. I paid $60 for my 1946, which is an MS66 RD but does not have a CAC sticker.


  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭

    @erscolo said:
    The Philadelphia issues of 1956 to 1954 have their challenges. To this day I do not have a 1951, 1952 or 1953 because of these challenges which include strike quality. I have a complete set of MS66 RD from 1932 to 1975 with the exception of the three listed above. I paid $60 for my 1946, which is an MS66 RD but does not have a CAC sticker.


    Yours is a great strike compared to the one I am trying to buy

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If these kind of strike issue bother you, then just collect proof coins. They are a superior collectibles in all ways.

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    If these kind of strike issue bother you, then just collect proof coins. They are a superior collectibles in all ways.

    I don’t like proof coins as much. They are not superior collectibles, just different than Mint State coins. I find all proof coins have a tiny amount of haze not found in uncirculated issues

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2023 3:34AM

    I'm not sure what the CAC pops are but with these PCGS pops, I would wait to find one that you like.

    I know the feeling because I'm very interested in cents on dime planchets and those come with letters against the edge a lot which I try to avoid.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    If these kind of strike issue bother you, then just collect proof coins. They are a superior collectibles in all ways.

    I strongly disagree with your second sentence and am somewhat surprised that a collector would say that. Part of what makes collectibles desirable to some of us is finding a coin, antique, sports card, etc. in a condition which has defied the odds of time. In the case of coins, that’s usually far more difficult and rewarding when it’s a business strike (which was intended to be circulated), as opposed to a Proof (which was meant to be saved).

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,233 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pop 51 in 66RD at CAC. Eh. If it bothers you, I'd pass, but it doesn't bother me. Lotta those 40s and 50s dates just come like that.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The issue bothered you enough to ask here... Therefore it will always bother you. Your choice, have fun collecting. Cheers, RickO

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never bought a coin where something about it bothered me at the time of purchase and wasn’t subsequently the reason I sold the coin. If it bothers you now and there isn’t an overwhelming reason to buy it otherwise (it’s the only one in existence, for example—not the case with a common coin like this) just pass. There have been many seemingly common coins I’ve spent months or years searching for not because I couldn’t find one or many, but because I couldn’t find nice enough examples for me. There’s no shame in waiting.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:
    I have never bought a coin where something about it bothered me at the time of purchase and wasn’t subsequently the reason I sold the coin. If it bothers you now and there isn’t an overwhelming reason to buy it otherwise (it’s the only one in existence, for example—not the case with a common coin like this) just pass. There have been many seemingly common coins I’ve spent months or years searching for not because I couldn’t find one or many, but because I couldn’t find nice enough examples for me. There’s no shame in waiting.

    Thank you for the advice. I find like you that there are many coins I can buy but almost none meet my criteria.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    The issue bothered you enough to ask here... Therefore it will always bother you. Your choice, have fun collecting. Cheers, RickO

    Yes. I knew the answer just based on the thread title.

  • goldengolden Posts: 9,040 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would look for a full strike.

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i'd buy the coin cause i'm one who likes interesting coins and this coin is interesting

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    depends on price

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭

    @coinkat said:
    depends on price

    I tried a snipe bid at $115 with about minute left at GC. Unfortunately my timing was off by 30 seconds and the bidder got the lot at $120, as I could have won it under $115.

  • PizzamanPizzaman Posts: 226 ✭✭✭

    It's got nothing to do with the state of the die. It's just a strike that didn't take in an area most prone to same being opposite the deep bust on the obverse side. I like the PCGS grade and the CAC endorsement on it and don't have a problem with it.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2023 8:51PM

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    If these kind of strike issue bother you, then just collect proof coins. They are a superior collectibles in all ways.

    I’ve had a real tough time trying to find a nice 1946 Proof Lincoln for sale. ;)

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2023 8:57PM

    @MFeld said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    If these kind of strike issue bother you, then just collect proof coins. They are a superior collectibles in all ways.

    I strongly disagree with your second sentence and am somewhat surprised that a collector would say that. Part of what makes collectibles desirable to some of us is finding a coin, antique, sports card, etc. in a condition which has defied the odds of time. In the case of coins, that’s usually far more difficult and rewarding when it’s a business strike (which was intended to be circulated), as opposed to a Proof (which was meant to be saved).

    After poking a little fun at @OldIndianNutKase just above, I’ll defend him a bit. My guess is he was referring only to eye appeal, due to the flashy mirrors and usually sharper strike exhibited by Proof coins. Even though he used the term “….in all ways”, I think he meant that only in terms of absolute eye appeal.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2023 9:07PM

    @Walkerlover said:

    @coinkat said:
    depends on price

    I tried a snipe bid at $115 with about minute left at GC. Unfortunately my timing was off by 30 seconds and the bidder got the lot at $120, as I could have won it under $115.

    1. Bidding with a minute left at GC is not a snipe bid. I always place my GC bids with 12 seconds to go. While others can place bids after me, that’s when they were going to bid anyway. My goal is when I place my bid, an underbidder will not have time to see my bid, and as a result then place their own bid to eat into my max bid.
    2. Chances are you would have lost anyway regardless of your timing of your $115 max bid, as the high bidder placed a bid of at least $120 while the bidding was still live.
    3. It’s quite possible the high bidder had a max bid higher than his winning bid of $120! We’ll never know, since the underbid was less than $120, and presumably his winning $120 bid was by a full increment.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @Walkerlover said:

    @coinkat said:
    depends on price

    I tried a snipe bid at $115 with about minute left at GC. Unfortunately my timing was off by 30 seconds and the bidder got the lot at $120, as I could have won it under $115.

    1. Bidding with a minute left at GC is not a snipe bid. I always place my GC bids with 12 seconds to go. While others can place bids after me, that’s when they were going to bid anyway. My goal is when I place my bid, an underbidder will not have time to see my bid, and as a result then place their own bid to eat into my max bid.
    2. Chances are you would have lost anyway regardless of your timing of your $115 max bid, as the high bidder placed a bid of at least $120 while the bidding was still live.
    3. It’s quite possible the high bidder had a max bid higher than his winning bid of $120! We’ll never know, since the underbid was less than $120, and presumably his winning $120 bid was by a full increment.

    Steve

    Actually what happened Steve was when I bid $115 it said congratulations you are the highest bidder. So I presume he had a bid somewhere lower than $115, to protect the current bid which was his at $84, which I bid it up from $69, after which I decided to wait to the last minute before I put my last bids. The bidding history shows him as last 4 bids against me

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It sounds like you’re not putting together a complete Lincoln Wheat set. As such, consider looking for a 1946-S, including a MS67RD with a CAC. Yes, it’s somewhat more costly, but I believe those sell for roughly $200 or $225 or so, with a CAC.

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2023 9:38PM

    @Walkerlover said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Walkerlover said:

    @coinkat said:
    depends on price

    I tried a snipe bid at $115 with about minute left at GC. Unfortunately my timing was off by 30 seconds and the bidder got the lot at $120, as I could have won it under $115.

    1. Bidding with a minute left at GC is not a snipe bid. I always place my GC bids with 12 seconds to go. While others can place bids after me, that’s when they were going to bid anyway. My goal is when I place my bid, an underbidder will not have time to see my bid, and as a result then place their own bid to eat into my max bid.
    2. Chances are you would have lost anyway regardless of your timing of your $115 max bid, as the high bidder placed a bid of at least $120 while the bidding was still live.
    3. It’s quite possible the high bidder had a max bid higher than his winning bid of $120! We’ll never know, since the underbid was less than $120, and presumably his winning $120 bid was by a full increment.

    Steve

    Actually what happened Steve was when I bid $115 it said congratulations you are the highest bidder. So I presume he had a bid somewhere lower than $115, to protect the current bid which was his at $84, which I bid it up from $69, after which I decided to wait to the last minute before I put my last bids. The bidding history shows him as last 4 bids against me

    OK, so that’s where my strategy of placing my max hammer bid with 12 seconds to go would have worked. No time for him to place four separate bids, if even one!

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,779 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2023 9:55PM

    I have a full red BU roll set of 1934 to 1980 Lincoln cents including a separate obw roll set of 1939 to 1972 Lincoln cents. They were acquired back in the 1970’s and 1980’s. In some years and mm, I have accumulated over 50 obw rolls. They were pretty affordable back in the day.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @Walkerlover said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Walkerlover said:

    @coinkat said:
    depends on price

    I tried a snipe bid at $115 with about minute left at GC. Unfortunately my timing was off by 30 seconds and the bidder got the lot at $120, as I could have won it under $115.

    1. Bidding with a minute left at GC is not a snipe bid. I always place my GC bids with 12 seconds to go. While others can place bids after me, that’s when they were going to bid anyway. My goal is when I place my bid, an underbidder will not have time to see my bid, and as a result then place their own bid to eat into my max bid.
    2. Chances are you would have lost anyway regardless of your timing of your $115 max bid, as the high bidder placed a bid of at least $120 while the bidding was still live.
    3. It’s quite possible the high bidder had a max bid higher than his winning bid of $120! We’ll never know, since the underbid was less than $120, and presumably his winning $120 bid was by a full increment.

    Steve

    Actually what happened Steve was when I bid $115 it said congratulations you are the highest bidder. So I presume he had a bid somewhere lower than $115, to protect the current bid which was his at $84, which I bid it up from $69, after which I decided to wait to the last minute before I put my last bids. The bidding history shows him as last 4 bids against me

    OK, so that’s where my strategy of placing my max hammer bid with 12 seconds to go would have worked. No time for him to place four separate bids, if even one!

    Steve

    How do you manage the time precisely to 12 seconds?

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s not difficult at all. They show a countdown digital clock by the second, so I look at MY watch, which has a sweep second hand. I then coordinate the exact auction end to my watch. For example, as the GC countdown clock gets to EXACTLY 5 minutes, 0 seconds, I look at the second hand on my watch. Make believe that’s at exactly the 38 second position when the GC countdown clock is at 5 min, 0 seconds. So I then know to push the blue “Confirm Bid” button when the second hand of my watch hits the 26 second position just before the end.

    Over the last few minutes I practice just by hitting the button on my computer to “Refresh” my screen at various times remaining. This gives me a sense of how quickly my connection is working with the GC servers. With about 45 total seconds remaining, I place my max bid on their first screen, then hit the blue “Place Bid” button. That takes me to the next screen showing my max bid, so as noted above, I then hit the blue “Confirm Bid” button when according to the sweep second hand on my watch I see there are only 12 seconds left. On this last screen they DON’T show their countdown clock, which is why you have to coordinate it with your own watch or timer.

    Separately, while I place my bids on my hard-wired desktop, separately I keep my iPad right there with me, set on cellular serve (NOT wI-fi), so if by chance the electric or internet goes down, the iPad is ready to “Confirm Bid”. With about 2 minutes to go, on that iPad I enter my max bid from the first page, push the blue “Place Bid” button. That brings me to the next page with the blue “Confirm Bid” button, but I DON’T hit that button unless the desktop loses service.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • MS66MS66 Posts: 200 ✭✭✭

    It’s not difficult at all.

    :D

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MS66 said:

    It’s not difficult at all.

    :D

    Yes, I get the humor, but it really isn’t difficult. I do this with ease on every coin I bid on at GC.

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996

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