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1909s Reconsideration?

Gonna send a cache of coins out to pcgs in the next month and have been considering this 66+ for reconsideration for a 67
There are no 67 rb in the pcgs population
What do you guys think? Possible 67? This also has a cac sticker for what it’s worth

Comments

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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I actually think the streak toning detracts from the grade, and I like it as a straight 66. I think it has less than a 10% chance to go 67.

    With that said, the upgrade would be big and would warrant a resubmission.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The pictures don’t say 67 to me.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on the images, even enlarged, I do not see a 67 grade there. Cheers, RickO

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭




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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    We will find out soon. Details are incredible on this coin when viewed with a loupe
    Pictures and tru view do don’t do it justice
    It already was a 67 once at ngc
    And Mr. Blay said it could go 67, let’s see if he’s right

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    WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good Luck and please keep us posted.

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Technically it is easily good enough for a 67 grade, the only questions are will the graders like the woodgrain toning and does the luster show strong enough through the toning. Good luck.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    I have no problem with that look.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i like that one just as is. keep us posted :)

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    Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know. How is the luster in hand? I think it is worth the fee to try however. Do you know if Mr. Blay tried that already?

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @thebigeng said:
    I don't know. How is the luster in hand? I think it is worth the fee to try however. Do you know if Mr. Blay tried that already?

    It went from an ms67 ngc to 66 at pcgs then preceded to sit in a bank vault for 30 years. The plus grade and cac were added 2 years ago

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said:
    Technically it is easily good enough for a 67 grade, the only questions are will the graders like the woodgrain toning and does the luster show strong enough through the toning. Good luck.

    The luster is extremely strong

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    This is also the plate coin for pcgs 1909 s rb ms66+

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think is is maxed out. That type of toning is unappealing to many collectors.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hypothetically, if it did achieve the upgrade on a Reconsideration submission, how would PCGS figure the value upon which to calculate the Reconsideration fee? Currently the PCGS Price Guide value for this coin in 67 = N/A.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @P0CKETCHANGE said:
    Hypothetically, if it did achieve the upgrade on a Reconsideration submission, how would PCGS figure the value upon which to calculate the Reconsideration fee? Currently the PCGS Price Guide value for this coin in 67 = N/A.

    Not sure if this. Can only compare to the jump from 66-67 for rd examples which isn’t exactly a good comparison

    Better question for pcgs

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @P0CKETCHANGE said:
    Hypothetically, if it did achieve the upgrade on a Reconsideration submission, how would PCGS figure the value upon which to calculate the Reconsideration fee? Currently the PCGS Price Guide value for this coin in 67 = N/A.

    Looks like it’s basically at their discretion, not sure if there’s a precise answer to that. From pcgs website faq on reconsideration:

    “If there is no PCGS Price Guide value, the 1% is based off the Declared Value of the coin as stipulated on the submission form. Note, however, that PCGS reserves final discretion on the value of the coin. This may result in the fees you have calculated on the submission form being adjusted to best reflect the value of the coins submitted. For this reason, it is best to pay by credit card in the event that your fees are adjusted.”

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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the shot is worth it.
    MS67 is not an impossible grade, and your 09-S looks like it might just make that leap.

    peacockcoins

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There aren't really any badly struck 1909-S Cents. San Francisco was on their game that year. Other than some unevenly struck specimens, the entire mintage looks real good.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    This is true

    However I have heard acquiring a gem state 1909s is harder than finding a gem state 1909 s vdb

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    lusterloverlusterlover Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭✭

    Joining the party late here but a few comments to welcome and educate:

    • I'm glad another passionate Lincoln collector (you) has joined this forum. I like the stuff you've contributed so far.
    • I am admittedly not a big fan of the woodgrain toning but objectively I think it will prevent a 67.
    • Hanging your hat on "it was once in an NGC 67 holder" will not help as they historically have overgraded Lincolns. Look at auction histories. Routinely, PCGS Lincolns sell for more. Your coin is worth more in the PCGS 66+ holder.
    • Coinfacts plate coins are a matter of timing, not what they pick. Yours was the last 66+RB to be graded so you are in that slot.
    • Totally agree a nice gem 09-S is rarer, but it is a matter of supply and demand.
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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    I didn’t cross it, Stewart blay did

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    There’s no assurance that the coin can get back into an NGC 67RD holder. And even if it could, it’s extremely difficult to imagine that it would then cross.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    There’s no assurance that the coin can get back into an NGC 67RD holder. And even if it could, it’s extremely difficult to imagine that it would then cross.

    Why?
    With Stewart Blay speaking of this cent in the highest of terms I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a shot.

    peacockcoins

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @lusterlover said:
    Joining the party late here but a few comments to welcome and educate:

    • I'm glad another passionate Lincoln collector (you) has joined this forum. I like the stuff you've contributed so far.
    • I am admittedly not a big fan of the woodgrain toning but objectively I think it will prevent a 67.
    • Hanging your hat on "it was once in an NGC 67 holder" will not help as they historically have overgraded Lincolns. Look at auction histories. Routinely, PCGS Lincolns sell for more. Your coin is worth more in the PCGS 66+ holder.
    • Coinfacts plate coins are a matter of timing, not what they pick. Yours was the last 66+RB to be graded so you are in that slot.
    • Totally agree a nice gem 09-S is rarer, but it is a matter of supply and demand.

    Thank you for your input
    Always good to find another Lincoln collector
    Only 5 in the ms66+ rb population so I’ll cross my fingers. I also think the longer I wait the better the odds for some reason

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @MFeld said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    There’s no assurance that the coin can get back into an NGC 67RD holder. And even if it could, it’s extremely difficult to imagine that it would then cross.

    Why?
    With Stewart Blay speaking of this cent in the highest of terms I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a shot.

    Well, for one it sounds like Stewart already tried, unsuccessfully, to cross it as a 67 to pcgs. Not saying it’s not worth a shot, but Marks statement still seems fair.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @MFeld said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    There’s no assurance that the coin can get back into an NGC 67RD holder. And even if it could, it’s extremely difficult to imagine that it would then cross.

    Why?
    With Stewart Blay speaking of this cent in the highest of terms I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a shot.

    I’m under the impression that Stewart crossed the coin from an NGC 67RD to a PCGS 66RB. So while he spoke of it so highly, his willingness to cross it as he did, makes be seriously doubt that he thought it had PCGS 67RD potential.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    I believe he had it in his set registry and simply had to upgrade for points reasons. He believed in the coin

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    He knew more about Lincoln cents than anyone, I’m sure I’m not alone in that thinking,

    Lincoln king of all time

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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Chevyrose said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    I didn’t cross it, Stewart blay did

    Guess he was human, because this was a silly mistake. Hope you bought the coin at a significant discount due to its uncertainty. Didn’t he only buy the best? Is this the best for that date/mintmark? It literally downgraded, and now there’s doubt NGC will 67 it again.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @braddick said:

    @MFeld said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    There’s no assurance that the coin can get back into an NGC 67RD holder. And even if it could, it’s extremely difficult to imagine that it would then cross.

    Why?
    With Stewart Blay speaking of this cent in the highest of terms I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a shot.

    I’m under the impression that Stewart crossed the coin from an NGC 67RD to a PCGS 66RB. So while he spoke of it so highly, his willingness to cross it as he did, makes be seriously doubt that he thought it had PCGS 67RD potential.

    @1madman said:

    @Chevyrose said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    I didn’t cross it, Stewart blay did

    Guess he was human, because this was a silly mistake. Hope you bought the coin at a significant discount due to its uncertainty. Didn’t he only buy the best? Is this the best for that date/mintmark? It literally downgraded, and now there’s doubt NGC will 67 it again.

    Did it turn in the holder?

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:

    @Chevyrose said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    I didn’t cross it, Stewart blay did

    Guess he was human, because this was a silly mistake. Hope you bought the coin at a significant discount due to its uncertainty. Didn’t he only buy the best? Is this the best for that date/mintmark? It literally downgraded, and now there’s doubt NGC will 67 it again.

    Anytime a coin is removed from a grading company’s holder, there’s no guarantee it will get back into their holder again at the same grade.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @1madman said:

    @Chevyrose said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    I didn’t cross it, Stewart blay did

    Guess he was human, because this was a silly mistake. Hope you bought the coin at a significant discount due to its uncertainty. Didn’t he only buy the best? Is this the best for that date/mintmark? It literally downgraded, and now there’s doubt NGC will 67 it again.

    Perhaps re read the first post in this thread
    Who said I wanted it in an ngc holder? I’d keep it as a pcgs 66+ first

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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would send it in every couple years with some others. A single coin costs so much with shipping both ways and handling fees.

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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Chevyrose said:

    @1madman said:

    @Chevyrose said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    I didn’t cross it, Stewart blay did

    Guess he was human, because this was a silly mistake. Hope you bought the coin at a significant discount due to its uncertainty. Didn’t he only buy the best? Is this the best for that date/mintmark? It literally downgraded, and now there’s doubt NGC will 67 it again.

    Perhaps re read the first post in this thread
    Who said I wanted it in an ngc holder? I’d keep it as a pcgs 66+

    To directly answer your 1st post, do not send it in for a regrade. If you want it to get it to upgrade to a 67, I think it will need to be crossed from another 67 holder.

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @1madman said:

    @Chevyrose said:

    @1madman said:

    @Chevyrose said:

    @1madman said:
    This may sound odd, but I think the way to upgrade this coin is to get it back into the NGC 67 red holder, then cross it. Who/why did you cross it at a lower grade with pcgs?

    Losing a top pop, then attempting to get it back is tough.

    I didn’t cross it, Stewart blay did

    Guess he was human, because this was a silly mistake. Hope you bought the coin at a significant discount due to its uncertainty. Didn’t he only buy the best? Is this the best for that date/mintmark? It literally downgraded, and now there’s doubt NGC will 67 it again.

    Perhaps re read the first post in this thread
    Who said I wanted it in an ngc holder? I’d keep it as a pcgs 66+

    To directly answer your 1st post, do not send it in for a regrade. If you want it to get it to upgrade to a 67, I think it will need to be crossed from another 67 holder.

    It’s called reconsideration

    If it crossed from another 67 holder it wouldn’t be an upgrade

    And uh yeah I’ll trust Stewart’s opinion on Lincoln’s, considering every other Lincoln he got me upgraded a full point when sent for reconsideration

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    JoeLewisJoeLewis Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭✭

    @Chevyrose said:
    And uh yeah I’ll trust Stewart’s opinion on Lincoln’s, considering every other Lincoln he got me upgraded a full point when sent for reconsideration

    Then why start this thread if you’ve already made up your mind?

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @JoeLewis said:

    @Chevyrose said:
    And uh yeah I’ll trust Stewart’s opinion on Lincoln’s, considering every other Lincoln he got me upgraded a full point when sent for reconsideration

    Then why start this thread if you’ve already made up your mind?

    Same reason I’d go to Chuck E. Cheese’s, for fun

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    OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2023 12:13AM

    @Chevyrose said:
    We will find out soon. Details are incredible on this coin when viewed with a loupe
    Pictures and tru view do don’t do it justice
    It already was a 67 once at ngc
    And Mr. Blay said it could go 67, let’s see if he’s right

    If Stewart thought it was a 67 he would have resubmitted that coin at least ten times......

    He would not be satisfied with RB. Thus he sold it.

    From the pictures I think the coin is a 65 RB due to the issues on obverse to the right of Lincoln head, Might be OK?, but in pics looks off.

    Good Luck.

    OINK

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    MS66MS66 Posts: 200 ✭✭✭

    Probably I'm missing something, since no one else has raised this objection, but isn't it poor form to be reproducing private conversations in a public forum?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2023 2:22AM

    @JoeLewis said:

    @Chevyrose said:
    And uh yeah I’ll trust Stewart’s opinion on Lincoln’s, considering every other Lincoln he got me upgraded a full point when sent for reconsideration

    Then why start this thread if you’ve already made up your mind?

    It's a "look at me" thread. Pretend to ask a question just to show off your coin.

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    @JoeLewis said:

    @Chevyrose said:
    And uh yeah I’ll trust Stewart’s opinion on Lincoln’s, considering every other Lincoln he got me upgraded a full point when sent for reconsideration

    Then why start this thread if you’ve already made up your mind?

    It's a "look at me" thread. Pretend to ask a question just to show off your coin.

    Little jealous J ?

    Could just start threads about how to ship coins on eBay? Or alert the community the melts value of zincolns

    Also weird that you run two accounts on here to harass people

    Probably mad that I’m not embarrassed to post a coin
    You never will post your garbage
    Keep dreaming J boy

    Maybe you’ll complete a state quarters set one day

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @OldIndianNutKase said:

    @Chevyrose said:
    We will find out soon. Details are incredible on this coin when viewed with a loupe
    Pictures and tru view do don’t do it justice
    It already was a 67 once at ngc
    And Mr. Blay said it could go 67, let’s see if he’s right

    If Stewart thought it was a 67 he would have resubmitted that coin at least ten times......

    He would not be satisfied with RB. Thus he sold it.

    From the pictures I think the coin is a 65 RB due to the issues on obverse to the right of Lincoln head, Might be OK?, but in pics looks off.

    Good Luck.

    OINK

    Learn about the annealing on San Francisco cents from that era

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    @MS66 said:
    Probably I'm missing something, since no one else has raised this objection, but isn't it poor form to be reproducing private conversations in a public forum?

    What’s up Jmlanzaf burner account

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2023 7:04AM

    @Chevyrose said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    @JoeLewis said:

    @Chevyrose said:
    And uh yeah I’ll trust Stewart’s opinion on Lincoln’s, considering every other Lincoln he got me upgraded a full point when sent for reconsideration

    Then why start this thread if you’ve already made up your mind?

    It's a "look at me" thread. Pretend to ask a question just to show off your coin.

    Little jealous J ?

    Could just start threads about how to ship coins on eBay? Or alert the community the melts value of zincolns

    Also weird that you run two accounts on here to harass people

    Probably mad that I’m not embarrassed to post a coin
    You never will post your garbage
    Keep dreaming J boy

    Maybe you’ll complete a state quarters set one day

    I don't have 2 accounts. Why would I bother?

    I don't post any of my personal coins because I largely collect non-US and for security reasons. I'm certainly not going to feed into your desire to direct my actions.

    Find a thread I started about ebay shipping and I'll send you a free coin.

    You continue to just harass people. You admitted yourself that you didn't start this thread to actually get opinions/advice. Now you're hurt that I said the same thing????

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Chevyrose said:

    @MS66 said:
    Probably I'm missing something, since no one else has raised this objection, but isn't it poor form to be reproducing private conversations in a public forum?

    What’s up Jmlanzaf burner account

    Nope. Not me. Why would I bother? I can say what I want from my one and only account.

    FWIW, it is considered bad form by old forum members to reproduce private messages here. I actually got my knuckles rapped once for doing it myself. However, I personally don't have a problem with it.

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