What's the most secure way to ship an expensive package? My Registered & Insured package stolen?

jmski52

I just had the unenviable experience of having my Registered & Insured package "picked up by individual" at the main office in Fresno, when it was supposed to be delivered across the country.

Registered Mail is supposed to be kept in a locked cage and have a 100% chain of custody. The only way i can imagine it being diverted is for someone with access to the Registered Mail cage falsified a signature and took it home, leaving another employee to get hung for it.

Maybe it's a clerical error and the package will show up tomorrow.

Now, I'm wondering how to ship a valuable package containing coins. What's your advice?

SurfinxHI

Private insurance?

I use shipandinsure.com

I haven't had any trouble yet, but thankfully, nothing to claim either!

rte592

Call the post office.
Find the post office general and raise hell?
ask questions?
and get someone on it sooner than later.

RobM

The USPS tracking reports are bogus sometimes. Not uncommon for a registered package to be "out for delivery" when routing between distribution centers far away from the ultimate destination. Most people would assume out for delivery means that your local mail carrier has the package, but not necessarily. In USPS parlance, "picked up by individual" might mean simply that a postal worker has taken custody of the package.

derryb

there may be an error in the tracking number provided

ricko

Registered mail is super secure.... Get in touch with the PMG and get them on it.... Likely it will be a clerical error. I have never had an issue shipping registered - except for slow delivery, which must be expected. Cheers, RickO

jmski52

I talked to the Postal Inspection Service yesterday, and I'm going down to the main PO today to talk to the postmaster. The tracking number is correct. I tracked it from the pickup time at the branch, down to the main PO where it was "picked up by individual" yesterday at 1:55. I'm actually hoping that it is a clerical error and that it shows up downtown.

How a Registered Mail package that was heavily insured can be "picked up" at the originating PO by an "individual" is beyond my comprehension. The package didn't even make it out of Fresno.

AUandAG

Diamond dealers ship in unmarked packages....plane janes. I've shipped 15oz af gold in a 4x4x6 brown box, priority....plain as it gets. A forminte was the reciever....all went well.
bob

PillarDollarCollector

FedEx for me I know some hate it but they have never ever caused me troubles in over 20 years. UPS is good as well.

I live in Canada shipped many times to the USA also with Registered and Express mail using Canada Post that becomes USPS over the border again never had a single issue as a seller only once as a buyer the package was damaged. I must have purchased 1000's of times over the 20 plus years small and more expensive items (2000$ for me is lot of money again to each their own I know some that is peanuts).

But anything I buy of say 1500$ or more I always ask to have it shipped to me via FedEx or UPS.

jmski52

I've learned a lot today. Apparently, "Delivered, Individual Picked Up at Post Office" in Fresno................

REALLY means that the package is sitting in San Francisco on it's way somewhere, presumably to North Carolina.

But you'd never know it by the Post Office's customer tracking system - it only shows up on their super secret double probation internal tracking system.

Apparently, it was a coding error by the dumkopf who picked up the package and brought it from Fresno to San Francisco.

FedEx is looking better all the time.

blitzdude

Stick with paper gutter, much easier to manage. RGDS!

jmski52

lol, sure thing!

derryb

be sure you are clear on what FedEx and UPS will and will not insure when it comes to PMs. Their definition of precious metals is equally important.

jmski52

Depending on the outcome, I might still use Registered Mail, such as it is. Argh.

jclovescoins

there never seems to be a clear answer to this question
I hate registered mail personally - I think it just alerts everyone that you are shipping something valuable and several people on here have claimed it doesn't even cover coins!
UPS one-day when I was shipping to major bullion companies was a nice way to do things, but this was quite expensive.

derryb

registered remains the safest, most secure way to ship valuable items. It is the only class of USPS shipping methods that will cover loss of bullion. Yes, it is slow but that is because of the security procedures that are taken throughout the shipment. Tracking for registered is not great, but when it says "out for delivery," you can bet it will be there.

Registered mail is also the cheapest USPS method for insured items over approx. $800 in value.

Does a registered package scream "high value?" Sure it does. But any of the USPS employees that handle it and are required to sign for it know better than to put their job on the line. No one else has access to it during the shipment.

ricko

@jmski52... Glad to hear your package is safe and in the system. Cheers, RickO

MetroD

@jclovescoins said:
there never seems to be a clear answer to this question
I hate registered mail personally - I think it just alerts everyone that you are shipping something valuable and several people on here have claimed it doesn't even cover coins!
UPS one-day when I was shipping to major bullion companies was a nice way to do things, but this was quite expensive.

Reference: USPS Domestic Mail Manual, Section 609:
~ sub-section 4.1.g provides details for "coins of [...] numismatic value" (i.e., FMV);
~ subsection 4.1.m provides details for "bullion" (i.e., max indemnity is $15.00, except for Registered Mail).

Note - I could NOT find a definition for "numismatic" vs. "bullion".

MetroD

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
FedEx for me I know some hate it but they have never ever caused me troubles in over 20 years. UPS is good as well.

I live in Canada shipped many times to the USA also with Registered and Express mail using Canada Post that becomes USPS over the border again never had a single issue as a seller only once as a buyer the package was damaged. I must have purchased 1000's of times over the 20 plus years small and more expensive items (2000$ for me is lot of money again to each their own I know some that is peanuts).

But anything I buy of say 1500$ or more I always ask to have it shipped to me via FedEx or UPS.

>

@derryb said:
be sure you are clear on what FedEx and UPS will and will not insure when it comes to PMs. Their definition of precious metals is equally important.

I agree with the comment from @derryb - it is important to know what the carrier will, and will not cover, in the event of 'damage/loss'.

Consider the FedEx terms for international shipments departing the U.S.

Maximum 'declared value/liability' is limited to $1,000 USD for:
~ "Precious metals, including, but not limited to, gold and silver bullion or dust [...]"(sub-section E.9);
~ "Collector’s items such as coins [...]" (sub-section E.12).

Reference: 2022 FedEx Service Guide, FedEx Express Terms and Conditions, International Shipments, Page #144

Edited to add:
UPS explicitly "prohibits" the following.

"Articles of unusual value, which shall be deemed to include, but are not limited to:"
~ "Coins, cash, currency, bonds, postage stamps, money orders, and negotiable instruments (such as drafts, bills of exchange, or promissory notes, but excluding checks);"
~ "Any article that contains more than 50 percent by weight of gold or plati­num, or any combination thereof in raw form including, but not limited to, bullion, bars, or scraps of these metals."
[Section 3.1, page #5]

As such, "UPS shall not be liable or responsible for:"
~ "loss or damage to any Shipment contain­ing articles that Shippers are prohibited from shipping, that UPS does not or is not authorized to accept for transportation, that UPS states that it will not accept, or that UPS has a right to refuse."
[Section 55.3, page #32]

Reference: UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service

derryb

@MetroD said:

Note - I could NOT find a definition for "numismatic" vs. "bullion".

and you won't, at least not with USPS.

streeter

Two things

A company that ships to me uses Usps priority mail and has private insurance so the box never has a postage amount on the outside.

They did mention that they were having very bad luck at the FedEx hub in Memphis. Something like 7 for last 7 had been tampered with. That sounds like an internal criminal theft gang.
This company ships a lot of gold and is very careful.

JimTyler

Ship in an adult diaper box.

jmski52

Thanks, Jim. If you ever buy any coins from me, that’s how I will ship to you, uninsured of course. It’s no xxxxxxx laughing matter.

jimq

Registered Mail is not always kept in a cage but the truck drivers who carry it carry it in separate bag from regular mail and the clerks who receive it do have to sign for it. There is assumed personal responsibility but in 20+ years at USPS I never saw an employee write a check.

Even if it is insured you have to prove value. Proof of sale at ebay or whatever is good, statement from a dealer is good. Price guide is not good.

RobM

Any update on the wherabouts of the package?

jmski52

The package showed up 2 weeks later without ever having been trackable and with exactly zero help from multiple PO sources.

streeter

Thankfully. But 2 weeks of uncertainty is not good.