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1909 VDB, Red, Lincoln Wheat 1C, grading opinions please, thank you.

A 1909 VDB, Lincoln Wheat 1C, PCGS# 2425, Red, Obv MS 66 - MS 67, Rev MS 67 - MS 68, overall then MS 66 - MS 67.




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    Maybe MS64. Definitely not any higher than that with the prominent mark on the cheekbone. On another note, maybe try to post all your coins in the same thread to save the hassle?

    Young Numismatist

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    tough pics

    64/65rd

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    @hummingbird_coins, Thank you for the opinion! Got it. I would be happy to post them all together, just was not sure if it was a pain to do that, versus doing them individually! Happy to post all together from here on. Thank you, Greg.

    @LanceNewmanOCC, Thanks for the opinion on grade. Please explain how I could make the photos better. Interestly, on one of the other posts, I was complimented for a good presentation. I just want to make this as easy as possible on everyone, as everyone here has been great, thank you, Greg.

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    ChevyroseChevyrose Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    Not 66

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @browntrout said:
    @hummingbird_coins, Thank you for the opinion! Got it. I would be happy to post them all together, just was not sure if it was a pain to do that, versus doing them individually! Happy to post all together from here on. Thank you, Greg.

    @LanceNewmanOCC, Thanks for the opinion on grade. Please explain how I could make the photos better. Interestly, on one of the other posts, I was complimented for a good presentation. I just want to make this as easy as possible on everyone, as everyone here has been great, thank you, Greg.

    it is a good presentation and the images aren't terrible but when asking about grading, the better the pics, the more accurate our grade estimations can be and sub-par images can EASILY unintentionally hide something that could greatly affect our grading opinions.

    MOST likely this one is straight forward but along with others, i really don't want to give unsound financial advice about the value/sumission-worthness of a coin(s).

    i'm at the end of my day, so not up for photography advice (there must be 500 threads on the subject here) but feel free to post your camera specs. :)

    hope it helps.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I saw 64 red immediately when I viewed.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    2 x 1945, Mercury Head Dimes, PCGS# 5056, not FB, both look more shiny in person than in the images, MS 64 - MS 66.








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    jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on the images, I see substantial wear on the bands of the fasces. Do you not see that?

    A coin with wear cannot be higher than AU. That's not even counting the marks on the neck and elsewhere.

    Roughly speaking, an MS-65 coin cannot have more than a few tiny marks of any type, and an MS-66 should have basically no marks of any type to an untrained eye. Those aren't official rules, but close enough. If you think you find a raw coin grading MS-65 or higher, your first (second, third, fourth...) thought should be that you made a mistake.

    Would you like to post an image of a slabbed MS-64 and discuss how you feel that this is a superior example?

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    @jonathanb, it has been a very sleep learning curve, and I am just trying to do my best, on my own time, to learn. This is all part of the learning process. Just trying to make sure that I am not missing something. I likely then, have made a lot of mistakes! Hehe! It is life, and the only way I am going to learn. Thanks, Greg.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Circling back to the 1909 VDB Lincoln, because this was a major design change in 1909 these were saved/horded in huge numbers. As such it is one of the most easily available early coins in the Lincoln series to find in high grade. The photos of your coin are difficult to assess, but from those I do not see it grading higher than MS65 and perhaps red brown in color not full red. With better photos I might have a different opinion. For reference this is my MS66 coin.

    All of the Mercury dimes show significant wear and would not grade higher than AU53, in my opinion.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    @coinbuf, thank you for your comments and taking a look too, as well as your opinions, That is what I really need right now to learn how to understand this process MUCH better than I do now - as you can see! I believe what they people here are saying, I do NOT believe myself! Hehe! I am FAR too new to this process to be so presumptive that I know. I have done Asian art, and antiques, and antiquities now for 25 years, and I still feel like I never know enough, and doubt I ever will! The key for me is, if these are the best I am finding, then I feel very certain the other 600++ are not! That eliminates a lot! Thank you, Greg.

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    NickelMikeNickelMike Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    I’ve bought hundreds of collections over the years. I can assure you that the vast majority of most collections are made up of mint products, circulated silver coins and wheat cents. There are certainly some diamonds in the rough but I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Look for key dates and not necessarily the best looking coin in the batch. Good luck!

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    @NickelMike, thank you for the kind advice! I am not surprised, and this has been my experience so far. I have enough knowledge from my normal work, to know to search for important dates, which is how I started whit process. However, it was quickly evident that there was a LOT more to understand before I could make any judgement at all! Thus why I joined PCGS, and also why I am asking question here, and for second opinions. I have literally looked at every single coin to check for anything and everything I can see that I might want to question. So far, not much! Thanks, Greg.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1909 cent looks MS64... The Merc dimes are low AU..... Cheers, RickO

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    jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @browntrout said:
    I have enough knowledge from my normal work, to know to search for important dates, which is how I started whit process. However, it was quickly evident that there was a LOT more to understand before I could make any judgement at all!

    Um .. really not.

    It sounds like you are still missing the key message that everyone is trying to share with you: While it is possible to find things with unexpected value, the odds of doing so are very slim.

    When I say very slim, I mean VERY slim. Like one in a million or less. You would literally be better of playing the lottery than continuing down the path you are taking.

    Look for the important dates, and then move on when you confirm that you have none of those.

    Common coins are common for a reason. There are zillions of common coins. You talked earlier about doing right by your clients. The best service you can give to your clients is to not waste your time or theirs on items that have minimal value and could not possibly have more than minimal value. So far, you have not posted or described a single coin that is outside of that category, sorry.

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    @jonathanb, I get it, thanks! That was an excellent way of presenting this to me! Important dates, if they are not there, no need to use any more of my, nor my client's, time. I have taken a screen shot of this note from you and am printing it out, as it is very grounding reminder while I finish this Job, and for the next time I go through this process. I am not overly surprised I missed the specifics of this point, when I thinking that I understood before, but, this explanation is excellent, thank you! I have learned a huge amount in this process so far for everyone, and from digging and digging. It was interesting to visit the dealer yesterday, as I could see he was not too worried about most of the coins, as he was much rounder on them than I expected, and only used his loop on a few of them! Thank you, Greg.

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    I have learned that I have a better way, more clear and realistic way to take my photos, thanks to nwcoast! So, I will retake everything again, and see if there is any change in opinions! If not, that is okay, if so, then I am glad I did not miss something! Thank you nwcoast!

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    64RD. BTW - get a reveal light bulb for a lamp when taking photos.

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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2022 12:55AM

    If you want to get into grading buy bags of half dollars straight from the US mint. Go through a thousand dollars of them and choose the top 5 coins. Take the rest to the bank and get your money back.
    The #1 thing for me to get over when I taught myself was understanding the difference between technical and WOW. If you want to make money - you need to find a coin that you could show someone not into coins and they go WOW. You find these in circulation with new rolls. Start with moderns, rolls from a bank, or the mint. I am not joking when I say you have to look at thousands of MS coin of a denomination before you can get good. Its fun and you can make bank but you are going to pay your dues before then - its easy but it is not.

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    Better images of the Red, 1909 VDB, Lincoln Wheat 1C, PCGS# 2425. I think I have figured out the best way I can take these images finally, as they are much more accurate in terms of color and luster too - with the help of nwcoast - thank you, Greg.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Images are a huge improvement, Greg. Nice job! There are some magicians on this forum regarding pictures. I’d like to start adding photography to my repertoire soon also.

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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the first 45 merc looks cleaned - do you have a loupe or magnifying glass? when you rotate it under light you should not see parallel lines

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Second around of pictures are nice.

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    @DeplorableDan, Thank you! Good to hear! Every aspect of this process has been a big learning session!

    @davewesen, Interesting, I have/had no idea how to detect cleaning yet - I had not gotten to that "lesson" yet, thanks! I am going to rephotograph them too and post again. Hopefully the images will be more accurate and telling to all of you here who know so much more than me!

    @Jimnight, Thank you! Glad to hear it! Does it change anything to the importance of the coin to any great extent though? As I understand it right now, these 1909 VDB's are very plentiful, and therefore, not so important/valuable.

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    1) 1914-S, PCGS# 2474, with missing “4” in 1914.
    2) 1922-D, with a weak “D”??? PCGS# 2537. This is possibly a 1922-D Lincoln Die Part Two” coin???







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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see what looks like parallel lines on the cheek and neck, you would be able to see it easier under magnification, slight angle and slight rotation. The following is a PCGS vid on some problems ...

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=VLE9-DZwMpI

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    Still not catching the muted luster on these 2 x 1945, Mercury Head Dimes, PCGS# 5056, not FB.






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