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New ancient today. Seven Hills Hoard
darktone
Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
Really did not know what I was buying but a $100 seemed good for one in this of condition. I have to research the Seven Hills Hoard.
1
darktone
Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
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Very nice reverse.
There appears to be a Forum thread on the "hoard."
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/956634/the-seven-hills-hoard
DPOTD
The Seven Hills Hoard is not a published hoard. It was allegedly found near Rome but there are no details of it. Why, I don't know. I'm not entirely sure how the Italian government would now view the legality of coins being sold from an unnamed Italian hoard, but a huge number of them were, by CNG.
Thanks!
Thanks! Going to read it right now.
Nice centering and it is already slabbed.
Hmm, another made-up NGC "hoard". I wouldn't mind them using the word "collection" or something, but these marketing "hoard" labels are misleading, because they falsely imply the coins were found together in some documented find. I think of their "Colosseum Hoard", for example. Many unsuspecting people understandably assume that the coins with those labels came from a find somewhere near the Colosseum, while nothing is further from the truth.
It's a nice Gordian III denarius, otherwise.
Now, some NGC Ancients do come from real, published hoards.
It's a shame that the fake "hoards" made up for marketing purposes kind of muddy the waters.
Are they breaking any laws by doing this? No. As @CIVITAS mentioned in the thread that was linked to, anybody can create a "hoard" by hoarding something together. So it's not illegal. It's just sketchy marketing, in my opinion, because it takes advantage of the assumptions most uninformed collectors will make about what the word "hoard" means in this context.
Edit: see my subsequent comment:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13384332/#Comment_13384332
I agree. Like the Wells Fargo hoard of 1908 Saints. All a marketing scheme to hide the fact they were brought in from the USSR when they split up.
The good news is that you did get a nice (if pretty common) piece of ancient silver. As to the $100 price, I'm guessing that's probably on the higher end of full retail, but not crazy high nor a blatant ripoff. I dunno. I'd defer to the Ancients dealers on what the market price of a Gordian III denarius in Ch XF with a common reverse type would otherwise be. His antoninianii (double-denarius coins) can often be had in the mid two-figure price range, though not in slabs.
When it comes to Roman silver, Gordian III is probably the most commonly encountered ruler there is. Some of the Ancients folks on CoinTalk call Gordy3s "roaches" because they're so common. LOL. (But that's said with affection, by people who collect and like them.) And they often come pretty nice. So they're a nice, affordable entry into ancient silver and often offer pretty good bang for the buck, in my opinion.
Thanks for all the info! Gordan iii was only 13 when he became emperor and was probably killed by his own army at 19. Pretty cool to own I think. Seemed like a good deal and I am happy with it. This one seems to be the less common obverse mated with a less common reverse. Just by looking at others.
I agree. Reading the old thread and the Paul Barford blogpost on the subject, it sounds to me like this "Seven Hills Hoard" is indeed a "fake hoard", made up by GovMint.com / New York Mint / Asset Marketing Services back in 2013 as a marketing gimmick to sell a bunch of ancient coins to newbies and non-collectors (GovMint et al prefer their customers to remain as ignorant as possible, so generally don't direct their marketing towards actual coin collectors). It would certainly never occur to your typical GovMint customer that buying and selling ancient coins or exporting an entire ancient coin hoard for sale abroad might be illegal in Italy.
I agree the coin itself is nice, and in this crazy post-COVID market is probably accurately priced, but Gordian III antoninianii are relatively easy to obtain in near-Unc condition like this, and usually look really nice once they're cleaned up properly - which is probably why GovMint chose this particular series to assemble a synthetic "hoard" with. It seems to have been a common fate for coins from this time period, to be struck, then shovelled straight into a big hole in the ground without ever seeing circulation.
I don't know what GovMint might have originally sold that coin for, but probably more than $100 back in 2013. Which would have been seriously overpriced back then.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
This hoard was rather angrily defended by Barry Murphy https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-seven-hills-hoard.324030/
I haven't seen his views on the Colosseum Hoard, or any other vaguely-defined hoard. Presumably, he would say the same.
It's hard not to come to the conclusion that these hoards are either illegal (otherwise why are they given names that hide the locality and archeaological records) or not hoards at all.
The only innocent explanation I can think of is that the finder and/or authorities want to hide the find spot to stop others going there to find more. I believe this is what happened with the West Norfolk Hoard of Saxon coins, which was kept secret to stop nighthawking (and was already the subject of criminal activity by one of the finders). Mr Barford has written a lot about that, too http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2021/11/secret-west-norfolk-hoard-goes-to.html
This hoard history is so vague with no published facts it has to be taken with a grain of salt.
(Link to exact comment below)
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-seven-hills-hoard.324030/#post-3538747
OK, given that, I'd be inclined to believe Mr. Murphy, and retract some of the shade I threw on this hoard label. I still think that the "Colosseum Hoard" pedigree is a marketing gimmick, if not by NGC directly, then by the consignor who submitted them?