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Numismasochism—inexperienced collectors and posters

FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 25, 2022 2:32PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Do not rush to read and post a reply.

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:
    How to answer inexperienced collectors and posters

    The way @ricko does it, not the way I do it. 😉

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz, imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following: “I have a 1958 doubled die cent. How much can I get for it”.

    Without rushing to read and post a reply, when and how would you respond?

    I invite other members to post their hypothetical “inexperienced collector” questions, in order that we, as a group, might better learn how to answer.😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,078 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe the grading services could post their FAQs more prominently. On calls from owners of obviously insignificantly valued material I ask them to email me images. I usually tell them unless care and expense was employed in getting the collectibles chances are what they have is not worth much. People think that stuff they find in change in 2022 could be really rare.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @MFeld ... I would reply... "Welcome aboard. The Cherry Pickers Guide (CPG) does list a DDO for that date. Can you post a picture so that we can better evaluate the coin? Cheers, RickO

    @ricko, and if the posters responds “What’s the Cherry Pickers Guide”? I don’t know how to post pictures. What’s it worth?”

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @ricko said:
    @MFeld ... I would reply... "Welcome aboard. The Cherry Pickers Guide (CPG) does list a DDO for that date. Can you post a picture so that we can better evaluate the coin? Cheers, RickO

    I don’t know how to post pictures. What’s it worth?”

    We need clear photo of both sides of the coin in order to evaluate it.

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    MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "These are very rare and almost impossible to find. Post clear photos but don't get your hopes up."

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    silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,598 ✭✭✭✭✭

    hate to remind you something but many new posters are after major $$$$ and don't care what advice you give them they cause they think coins are the way to easy street

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    MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It takes time to develop expertise at ANYTHING. Very few are willing to invest that time.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld... Thanks Mark, coming from you, that is an especially valued compliment. I highly respect and value your inputs on coins and other aspects of the hobby. Cheers, Ricko

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @MFeld... Thanks Mark, coming from you, that is an especially valued compliment. I highly respect and value your inputs on coins and other aspects of the hobby. Cheers, Ricko

    Thank you, @ricko.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for asking.

    @MFeld said

    @Fraz, imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following: “I have a 1958 doubled die cent. How much can I get for it”.

    Without rushing to read and post a reply, when and how would you respond?

    I invite other members to post their hypothetical “inexperienced collector” questions, in order that we, as a group, might better learn how to answer.😉

    Address the info in a neutral way:
    The 1958 doubled die is a keeper.
    Answer the query:
    It is worth 10¢ to $25,000.

    Your work is done. He did not ask for opinion, give none. The ball is in his court to show his skills.
    Give one reply and wait, do not pile on.
    Show your grace, not your emotion. Ennui is an emotion.
    You is a provocative word, write without it.
    I use regular adverbs when I want to be mean.

    And, yes nurturing goes too far sometimes. Cichlid mommas eat slow fry.
    Who am I to preach? I love the disastrous thread endings, my impulsive posts jailed and banned me.

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    Maybe the grading services could post their FAQs more prominently. On calls from owners of obviously insignificantly valued material I ask them to email me images. I usually tell them unless care and expense was employed in getting the collectibles chances are what they have is not worth much. People think that stuff they find in change in 2022 could be really rare.

    @ricko said:
    @MFeld ... I would reply... "Welcome aboard. The Cherry Pickers Guide (CPG) does list a DDO for that date. Can you post a picture so that we can better evaluate the coin? Cheers, RickO

    @ricko said:
    @MFeld... Then I would provide a link to the CPG and where to find it. Suggest the rudimentary process for posting pictures, and inform the poster that condition is critical to determine worth. Include easily understood details about damage to the surface or excessive wear and how it impacts value. Also then suggest going to a local coin shop if available for an evaluation. But caution against rushing to sell. Cheers, RickO

    Don’t waste time pointing out resources. They are plentiful, the serious know about references, the lazy prefer you tube. If the poster acts intelligently we see.
    Don’t discourage YouTube. YouTube is played out and dissing YouTube is played out.
    They will go away if they have to ask more questions to find a value that suits them.

    Aim: Go away quietly or become a functioning reader in the forum.

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @MFeld said:

    @ricko said:
    @MFeld ... I would reply... "Welcome aboard. The Cherry Pickers Guide (CPG) does list a DDO for that date. Can you post a picture so that we can better evaluate the coin? Cheers, RickO

    I don’t know how to post pictures. What’s it worth?”

    We need clear photo of both sides of the coin in order to evaluate it.

    If he does not have the sense to post a photo. Don’t ask for one.
    It’s over.

    If he posts a poor photo, he be lame. There are crisp photos everywhere. If he lacks the discrimination to see sharp from blurred, that reflects his thought as well.

    @silverpop said:
    hate to remind you something but many new posters are after major $$$$ and don't care what advice you give them they cause they think coins are the way to easy street

    Stop them early.

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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2022 10:24AM

    @Fraz said:

    Show your grace, not your emotion. Ennui is an emotion.

    "Ennui" is the kind of word that should be spoken or written about once a year. I've already heard it several times today. :D

    Who am I to preach? I love the disastrous thread endings, my impulsive posts jailed and banned me.

    I thought you had (unfortunately) been banned. How did you make it back on? :p

    It's nice that you want to pass along advice on how to deal with new posters, and I don't mean any disrespect, but here are a few observations from me....

    New posters are generally (note that I said generally) treated reasonably well here. Ones who want to learn are given invaluable learning opportunities and advice.

    Some new posters start out with guns blazing to have their pocket change validated as priceless errors, and they get hostile when that doesn't happen. (Click on the user name of the person whose thread prompted your own thread here - you'll see what else they have already demonstrated on the forum in the form of threads, comments, and ignored advice).

    One observation I've made over the past several years is that it is usually the experienced forum members who answer the new members' posts, and other newer members who then chastize them for how they answered. One way to avoid all of this is if the newish members who are worried about the responses would jump in at an earlier stage to field the questions asked by new members. ;)

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:

    @logger7 said:

    If he does not have the sense to post a photo. Don’t ask for one.
    It’s over.

    If he posts a poor photo, he be lame. There are crisp photos everywhere. If he lacks the discrimination to see sharp from blurred, that reflects his thought as well.

    >

    I get questions about coins every single day.

    The only way I can answer someones questions is to see a clear photo of both sides.

    This is the answer. They have to show a photo or I can not answer the question.

    Simple as that.

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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Glad to hear there is a road back for some people. I never did fully understand what transgression got you booted. :)

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2022 12:09PM

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @Fraz said:

    @logger7 said:

    If he does not have the sense to post a photo. Don’t ask for one.
    It’s over.

    If he posts a poor photo, he be lame. There are crisp photos everywhere. If he lacks the discrimination to see sharp from blurred, that reflects his thought as well.

    >

    I get questions about coins every single day.

    The only way I can answer someones questions is to see a clear photo of both sides.

    This is the answer. They have to show a photo or I can not answer the question.

    Simple as that.

    I am tempted to use you. I’m not sure how soon I choose to expose more ignorance.

    Your point is that you have a methodology. You must; I believe that this is your living? We others have to act as courteously as you have learned to act in order to generate informed repeat customers. You’re nice here too.

    You dealers cause me to reflect with my clown shoes off.

    I do not take my hobbies seriously when I think what is happening to coin collections in Ukrainia. I laugh off your and my hobby whines.
    If you feed or educate someone with the fruit of your coin sales you have a license to be serious—point out my impertinence anytime.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,502 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Find a mentor/go to coin shows, fwiw

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny9434 said:
    Find a mentor/go to coin shows, fwiw

    Yeah, if empathy gnaws at me I pm and offer n00b PR strategy. Folk who need mentors tend to not recognize the need, though.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:
    Thank you for asking.

    @MFeld said

    @Fraz, imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following: “I have a 1958 doubled die cent. How much can I get for it”.

    Without rushing to read and post a reply, when and how would you respond?

    I invite other members to post their hypothetical “inexperienced collector” questions, in order that we, as a group, might better learn how to answer.😉

    Address the info in a neutral way:
    The 1958 doubled die is a keeper.
    Answer the query:
    It is worth 10¢ to $25,000.

    Your work is done. He did not ask for opinion, give none. The ball is in his court to show his skills.
    Give one reply and wait, do not pile on.
    Show your grace, not your emotion. Ennui is an emotion.
    You is a provocative word, write without it.
    I use regular adverbs when I want to be mean.

    And, yes nurturing goes too far sometimes. Cichlid mommas eat slow fry.
    Who am I to preach? I love the disastrous thread endings, my impulsive posts jailed and banned me.

    Poor answer. If the coin is a normal 1958 cent, it’s likely to be worth three cents, not your minimum listed value of 10 cents. And in the nearly impossible event that it’s a genuine DDO, it’s worth far more than your maximum listed value of $25,000.

    Now what?😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have a copy/paste Q&A for them to answer

    Short Description
    Clear images
    Don't use acronyms like PMD
    Anything else???

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:

    @MFeld said:
    @Fraz, imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following: “I have a 1958 doubled die cent. How much can I get for it”.

    Without rushing to read and post a reply, when and how would you respond?

    I invite other members to post their hypothetical “inexperienced collector” questions, in order that we, as a group, might better learn how to answer.😉

    I’d take my time with crafting the reply…

    My Dearest Mark,

    It is with the heaviest of hearts and deepest regret that I inform you that you are completely off your rocker and your piece of crap coin is worth merely a measly cent. Please consider taking our your monocle and looking closely at your coin and compare it to a photo of a genuine example. Notice how your coin in no way looks like the valuable and rare example.

    I wish you the most wonderful and long stay on these venerable message boards even though it is likely you will never post again, except perhaps to argue that I do not know what I am talking about as you insist the coin you have is in fact worth millions.

    I am, sincerely, yours truly,

    ‘Nut

    That’s a very disappointing response. You should have taken more time, in order to learn that wheat cents are worth more than a “measly cent”.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld —open to any— Imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following:
    (your lexicon is larger than mine, don’t forget that your knowledge is vast, your time is valuable, you’re King Kong holding Fay Wray. Is this worth the time, if the time is wasted because it’s the wrong occasion to stop and help?
    How do you read a post that way before you answer? (You can tell to me go away if you are at work!)

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:
    @MFeld —open to any— Imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following:
    (your lexicon is larger than mine, don’t forget that your knowledge is vast, your time is valuable, you’re King Kong holding Fay Wray. Is this worth the time, if the time is wasted because it’s the wrong occasion to stop and help?
    How do you read a post that way before you answer? (You can tell to me go away if you are at work!)

    Welcome to the forum.
    Based on the images provided, I wouldn’t describe the coin as cleaned. However, if it was cleaned, I have no idea how it was done.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Welcome back @Fraz :)

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:
    @MFeld —open to any— Imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following:
    (your lexicon is larger than mine, don’t forget that your knowledge is vast, your time is valuable, you’re King Kong holding Fay Wray. Is this worth the time, if the time is wasted because it’s the wrong occasion to stop and help?
    How do you read a post that way before you answer? (You can tell to me go away if you are at work!)

    You are not the focus of the thread.

    Your knowledge is beyond beginner Parking Lot Joe Pennymaker.

    99.99% of n00bs would not know the difference between cleaning with silver polish and a toothpick.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    @Fraz, imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following: “I have a 1958 doubled die cent. How much can I get for it”.

    Without rushing to read and post a reply, when and how would you respond?

    Let me try:

    Dear Mark, I believe someone at Heritage can appraise it for you. ;)

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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2022 2:13PM

    @yspsales said:

    @Fraz said:

    Imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following:

    [snip]

    Your knowledge is beyond beginner Parking Lot Joe Pennymaker.

    You got that. We adjust the register of the answer.

    Thanks all.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    Welcome back @Fraz :)

    Don't you mean welcome back colonel?

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2022 2:16PM

    @coinbuf said:

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    Welcome back @Fraz :)

    Don't you mean welcome back colonel?

    Did I black out again?

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:

    @yspsales said:

    @Fraz said:

    Imagine if you would, that I’m a new poster and I post the following:

    [snip]

    Your knowledge is beyond beginner Parking Lot Joe Pennymaker.

    You got that. We adjust the register of the answer.

    Thanks all.

    You asked about cleaning, toothpicks, questionable color etc... not a n00b question IMHO.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:

    @coinbuf said:

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    Welcome back @Fraz :)

    Don't you mean welcome back colonel?

    Did I black out again?

    Maybe, how much have you had to smoke today. And bty, I was having a conversation with the other gentleman, it is impolite to interrupt.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:
    Do not rush to read and post a reply.

    i have been/am a member of forums that have automated messages pop up for noobies. noobies being defined by the amount of posts and duration of membership that instruct them to do certain things a certain way, or plain and simple, they cannot do them. (including myself and while it is a bit frustrating at times, it is for the health of the overall place AND especially for the veterans that just get worn out of the same haphazard/lazy manner of most new members)

    while niche groups should be patient, helpful and positive; new members need to learn to follow basic instructions and use a little common sense/consideration as part of this balance. it is actually in their best interest as the better they do, the better they can be helped.

    there are also forums that have a STRICT rule about no discussing values/selling prices etc on the main forum(s) (for obvious reasons imo) but are welcomed in the appropriate sections/areas. a rule i wish was applied here. this is probably one of the most lax places i've seen for certain things out of the many forums/sites i've been a member of. social media and youtube excluded. those places are just plain nuts and are appropriately defined by me as DMZs.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    vulcanizevulcanize Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Total egoism on the part of older collectors just like the dealers at coin shows that ghost one who has the potential to buy their coins.

    Arrogance will indeed be a major factor in letting this hobby go down the drain because it would deter the newbies more than attracting.

    My LCS guy and I had a nice laugh over this attitude and like he summarized it perfectly during my visit to his store after going to a terrible coin show in my neck of the woods - "I was once in your shoes" and the local coin show had become so pathetic that he stopped participating.

    And mind you, this is the perspective and experience of my LCS person who is an Octagenarian.

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,284 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do not waste the poster's time, as they are not quite ready to give adequate information for a response to be made. I have given this information many, many times on the forum:
    1) Learn to Copy and paste a photo of your coin in question, can be done many ways and google is your friend
    2) Look up your coin on CoinFacts, a free service from PCGS and compare yours to their many photographs
    3) if you still think you have a match then post complete photos of the obverse and reverse of your coin, plus any
    specialized photos of the area in question and say why you feel your coin is a match.
    Simple for all to do and would save so much time for all.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    FrazFraz Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2022 7:29PM

    @vulcanize —I get the frustration they show. This thread will have the impact of one thread.
    I’m through initiating anything here. I hang around for the banter.

    @Coinbuf —Pardon my interruption—half dozen, or so, bowls of Chatham’s select, anyhow. I think that I was full of myself from the attention, though.

    I came into the forum with the honeydipper quarter:

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