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I sent in a Washington Quarter.

Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

I sent in a Washington Quarter for a reholder to put a type-B verity on the cert. Well when looking at it I see that a spot of toning is missing in the new true view. It's right in front of Washington eyes. Did someone sneeze on it and Q-tipe it off? I have seen toning go on a coin after time when at grading but not come off in less some one mess with it. I don't know why but there it is.

1st pic is when I first sent it in and forgot to check the box for the verity.

New 2nd pic with the verity.

The coin was only at PCGS for two or three weeks.



Hoard the keys.

Comments

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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most likely a drop of some sort of liquid dropped onto the coin and was thereafter removed. Whatever was in the drop of liquid caused what you see in the after photo.

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,816 ✭✭✭✭✭

    66+ is still a great looking coin! 👍🏻

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Two different lighting angles.

    You can see at spot you mentioned and at the base of the ponytail. A couple of die scratches changed as well.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2022 2:57PM

    I would say lighting also. The contact marks on the cheek look different from original to new one also.

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2022 3:46PM

    @DeplorableDan said:

    @yspsales said:
    Two different lighting angles.

    You can see at spot you mentioned and at the base of the ponytail. A couple of die scratches changed as well.

    I think that op is referring to the spot on the bridge of his nose. That’s not a lighting issue, something happened there.

    I see what you are saying, but the angles are different on the reverse.

    You can see the progression of color is slightly different as well.

    That higher little flare is colored and present.

    Photo is latin for the bending of light. A different exposure producing more light and/or different angle gave it the lighted edges inside the rims. It will affect other areas as well.

    I shot half million wedding images, so that is my semi-pro opinion.

    Coins may be the toughest things in the world to photograph.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the beautiful thing is, once it is back in-hand, we'll have a definitive answer but imo, the coin was altered somehow.

    i've put a lot of toners under water and NEVER had the toning affected so i'm wondering if that is a splash of hand sanitizer or something similar.

    anyone have a toner they want to test some sanitizers? i have like 10 different kinds around here and will look for a toner i'm willing to nuke and post results if i see any change.

    while it is best to be careful, i do KNOW that people are still getting sick AND dying from c19 so considering the TPGs are handling huge volumes of stuff that can and most likely is carrying a variety of crap, i don't blame em too much if that is what happened here but MAY require a lil customer service to smooth over.

    seems they've really picked up turn around times too. fwiw

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Look at the die polish lines.

    One dark, one light

    Also in the blowups, look at the difference in color in front of the nose near the edge of the image.

    Not unlike going under water and the deeper you get, you lose color.

    These angles will affect the color.

    It seems dramatic to me as well, but it is what it is... just my opinion.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yspsales said:
    Look at the die polish lines.

    One dark, one light

    Also in the blowups, look at the difference in color in front of the nose near the edge of the image.

    Not unlike going under water and the deeper you get, you lose color.

    These angles will affect the color.

    It seems dramatic to me as well, but it is what it is... just my opinion.

    Did polish lines? - Sure, they appear different.

    Difference in color in the splotches in front of nose? Sure there is a difference in color. However the splotches are visible and consistent in both photos.

    Nose bridge perfectly circular untoned spot that is unrecognizable in any way in the original photo? Not the snowballest chance that was caused by lighting.

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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I tend to agree with @LanceNewmanOCC that the most likely culprit would be hand sanitizer, IF someone can attest to its effect on toning.

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    Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah,that spot looks pretty clean now.

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had a proof Lincoln cent that ended up having a drop of Visine fall on it. I quickly washed the Visine off, but the damage was done. A spot just like the one shown on the Washington Quarter appeared.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2022 6:32PM

    I think an attempt to remove a small bit of PVC/gunk, seems to be there in the before photos.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks all. That's what it looks like to me as well.. looks like there was two small Virgil but I never ask to remove them. Oh well I'll see if they do anything for it. Thanks all have a safe and happy Thanksgiving all.



    Hoard the keys.
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For some reason when I saw the title of the thread I thought the first post might be, "...and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" LOL

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    GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Also some new spots in the latest photo. Strange!

    Before

    After

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    MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a mystery for sure but hard to deny something happened while at PCGS. I would be pretty upset if that was my coin.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting discussion. I certainly agree that lighting can play tricks on images. However, that certainly appears to be a distinct removal of tarnish in that spot. Cheers, RickO

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can someone do an overlay?

    That little flag above the spot on the bridge of the nose is masked by color in the other image... IMHO

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if they felt that could have been PVC?

    I am sure you already know the 66+
    went from a pop 70 with 482 higher price guide $45
    to type B pop 5 with 2 higher price guide $550

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2022 12:46PM

    Could the area at the bridge of the nose be something on or inside the holder?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,732 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    Could the area in question at the bridge of the nose be something on or inside the holder?

    The images in this thread are PCGS True Views, so the coin would have been raw during the image acquisition.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had an experience with a regrade where a tiny spot of corrosion was removed from the reverse of an 1855 Large Cent. The coin is MS65 and the conservation improved the coin. There is a barely noticeable toning spot now. I never asked for the conservation to be done and did not pay for it.
    For your coin it looks like someone was trying to help and it turned out badly. I would ask customer service what can be done. Tough break.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2022 1:03PM

    @TomB said:

    @MFeld said:
    Could the area in question at the bridge of the nose be something on or inside the holder?

    The images in this thread are PCGS True Views, so the coin would have been raw during the image acquisition.

    I’ll take that as “No way.” 😉

    Thanks!

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2022 2:58PM

    @TomB said:

    @MFeld said:
    Could the area in question at the bridge of the nose be something on or inside the holder?

    The images in this thread are PCGS True Views, so the coin would have been raw during the image acquisition.

    Edit: Incorrect info.

    I also agree that something happened at PCGS. I've never seen color disappear like that spot on Washington's nose based on lighting.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

  • Options
    TomBTomB Posts: 20,732 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @TomB said:

    @MFeld said:
    Could the area in question at the bridge of the nose be something on or inside the holder?

    The images in this thread are PCGS True Views, so the coin would have been raw during the image acquisition.

    This is usually true, but not recently. I believe PCGS has stated that TrueViews are now sometimes taken after encapsulation. Here's a TrueView of a coin I sent recently where you can see the slab glare (left obverse):

    I also agree that something happened at PCGS. I've never seen color disappear like that spot on Washington's nose based on lighting.

    If that coin is already newly encapsulated then where are the prongs? I would think they should be visible.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • Options
    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    @TomB said:

    @MFeld said:
    Could the area in question at the bridge of the nose be something on or inside the holder?

    The images in this thread are PCGS True Views, so the coin would have been raw during the image acquisition.

    This is usually true, but not recently. I believe PCGS has stated that TrueViews are now sometimes taken after encapsulation. Here's a TrueView of a coin I sent recently where you can see the slab glare (left obverse):

    I also agree that something happened at PCGS. I've never seen color disappear like that spot on Washington's nose based on lighting.

    If that coin is already newly encapsulated then where are the prongs? I would think they should be visible.

    Fair question. It was a reholder, so it could have been taken in the old slab, but you'd expect to see the old ring gasket. Now that I really look, I can't explain that glare.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,732 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That glare is just bad lighting by PCGS.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • Options
    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    That glare is just bad lighting by PCGS.

    I have edited my post.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

  • Options
    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So are we all in agreement that @yspsales is eating the green beans tomorrow? :D

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    PCGSPhotoPCGSPhoto Posts: 768 mod
    edited November 23, 2022 3:31PM

    @TomB said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    @TomB said:

    @MFeld said:
    Could the area in question at the bridge of the nose be something on or inside the holder?

    The images in this thread are PCGS True Views, so the coin would have been raw during the image acquisition.

    This is usually true, but not recently. I believe PCGS has stated that TrueViews are now sometimes taken after encapsulation. Here's a TrueView of a coin I sent recently where you can see the slab glare (left obverse):

    I also agree that something happened at PCGS. I've never seen color disappear like that spot on Washington's nose based on lighting.

    If that coin is already newly encapsulated then where are the prongs? I would think they should be visible.

    RE: The Buffalo Nickel. It was shot out of the holder. An editor was careless in assembling the image - there was something obstructing the lens of the first obverse shot. This correction will be online soon. -Phil

    Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232

  • Options
    batumibatumi Posts: 797 ✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    the beautiful thing is, once it is back in-hand, we'll have a definitive answer but imo, the coin was altered somehow.

    i've put a lot of toners under water and NEVER had the toning affected so i'm wondering if that is a splash of hand sanitizer or something similar.

    anyone have a toner they want to test some sanitizers? i have like 10 different kinds around here and will look for a toner i'm willing to nuke and post results if i see any change.

    while it is best to be careful, i do KNOW that people are still getting sick AND dying from c19 so considering the TPGs are handling huge volumes of stuff that can and most likely is carrying a variety of crap, i don't blame em too much if that is what happened here but MAY require a lil customer service to smooth over.

    seems they've really picked up turn around times too. fwiw

    Whatever, if anything was applied to the OP's coin, I would be grateful to be rid of that patch of discoloration on a very attractive piece.

  • Options
    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Type2 said:

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    JoeLewisJoeLewis Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭✭

    Any follow up on this?

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