I appreciate your enthusiasm. You have more enthusiasm than a lot of old-time collectors. I'm just struggling with the business case here.
Business case is that learning about coins enables him to expand his client services. That's enough. Plus there is always the joy of learning which @browntrout has in abundance. I wish more new posters would come here with the attitude of how much they have to learn.
I agree. But, as I said, the more common approach is to simply have a local dealer who advises. Heritage doesn't have one person running all the different units. They have experts in each of the different units. Smaller houses have consultants in each unit. If we had spent the last week talking about classic US gold, I could maybe see it. The amount of time being devoted to proof and mint sets is simply beyond reasonable - from a business case. The answer, given by several, going back to the initial posting is that modern mint/proof sets simply aren't worth the time or effort. Yet, here we are still discussing them. Call GC, Heritage, and Stacks about modern mint/proof sets and see what they tell you. They will tell you that they will wholesale them for you if part of a larger estate or that they are simply not interested if that's all that you have.
After looking at your pictures, there are many spots, high point wear, scratches, etc that are obvious indicators that they are not coins for which to incur grading fees. For some reason, I feel we are being trolled.
@Catbert said:
After looking at your pictures, there are many spots, high point wear, scratches, etc that are obvious indicators that they are not coins for which to incur grading fees. For some reason, I feel we are being trolled.
I don't think so. But even if we are, it's been a pleasant discussion. It's a much nicer thread than the triple overdate pareidolia.
The '69-D half has two serious flaws that keep it out of being gradable.
It is a very nice coin in about the 98th %ile in terms of cleanliness and it is generally well struck by good dies. The tarnish is almost certain to come off in an acetone soak. Unfortunately the green corrosion on the obverse will not come off. There are those who can mitigate it enough that the coin will grade but this is expensive. The reverse has the poorly struck area that won't help it.
There should be great luster under that haze so it's a keeper but I doubt it will grade quite high enough to warrant the cost.
Sometimes the haze will hide a little little roughness but I doubt that this is an issue in this case.
I don't have enough experience with '71-D Ikes to advise. They do come very very nice but I can't prove it by the rolls I've seen. This one is certainly very nice and has great luster as is sometimes seen on the date. I think there may be too much planchet marking and more roughness under the haze. It should be removable as well.
It's definitely a keeper but it might top out around MS-65.
@daltex, thank you for your kind support. I am doing my best, and can not do much better than that. The good thing is it includes learning, and growing, and finding the fun again, that I used to have with my Grandmother when she taught me about coin collecting. It is very interesting, and very detail oriented, and my brain is into that! Will I become a numismatist, I am not sure at this point, but it is clearly and endless journey, just like Fine Western art, and especially Asian art, antiques and antiquities, which are OVERLOADED with extremely good forgeries, and that takes a LOT of sleuthing. Sincerely, Greg.
Also, in the end, how am I to learn, if I do not put the effort into learning. Let alone, quitting because I am "shamed" from my efforts which turn up no "valuable" results. So, because most of these coins are "worthless" in the numismatic world, I should just quit? Because I am not as capable as people who have been doing this for years and/or all their lives, I should just give up? Because I do not yet understand the right process, and best ways to deal with things, I should give up? That is VERY FAR from my style! Not gonna happen! I have been a researcher all my life, and this tickles my brain! I also DO NOT let down my customers with the facts I gather... they may be let down by prices, but not the facts! That is all I am interested in. One of the very interesting things about Asian pieces is, for most, you have to suss out the truth, and more often than not, that means proving that something is a fake in the end, and thus has limited value! I tell my clients, "You may not like my answers, but you will get the truth of what you have out of me, so be ready!" Integrity, Ehtics and Honesty are the only way! It is not fun letting down a client, but it is a necessary pain in my business!
there are some videos on youtube that cover grading - you need to learn about luster and strike (need them both to get high grades)
money.org also has past seminars online that is a great resource
that 72-D half looks weakly stuck, probably limiting it to MS65 max
@browntrout said:
Also, in the end, how am I to learn, if I do not put the effort into learning. Let alone, quitting because I am "shamed" from my efforts which turn up no "valuable" results. So, because most of these coins are "worthless" in the numismatic world, I should just quit? Because I am not as capable as people who have been doing this for years and/or all their lives, I should just give up? Because I do not yet understand the right process, and best ways to deal with things, I should give up? That is VERY FAR from my style! Not gonna happen! I have been a researcher all my life, and this tickles my brain! I also DO NOT let down my customers with the facts I gather... they may be let down by prices, but not the facts! That is all I am interested in. One of the very interesting things about Asian pieces is, for most, you have to suss out the truth, and more often than not, that means proving that something is a fake in the end, and thus has limited value! I tell my clients, "You may not like my answers, but you will get the truth of what you have out of me, so be ready!" Integrity, Ehtics and Honesty are the only way! It is not fun letting down a client, but it is a necessary pain in my business!
Except that the lesson here could have been much shorter: wholesale Mint & Proof sets. Several people mentioned the issue very early in this thread.
And simply having a consultant coin dealer isn't the same as "giving up". It's making a business decision. Do you have the thousands of hours necessary to become even a modestly skilled numismatist?
@davewesen, Thanks for the comments. Yes, I have looked at a bunch of the PCGS and YouTube videos on the coins. They have also been very enlightening. I have looked at money.org a few times as well, do not recall if I watched any of their videos or not in the many I have watched so far, but it is possible too. Kennedy 1/2 at MS-65 max - thanks for the kind opinion! That is the kind of thing I think it most important now. Then to the dealers. If I had not been ill (possible that damn RSV!), and we had not had winter weather here, with terrible drivers in WA (some of the worst in good conditions I know of in the country, let alone in troubling weather), I would have visited the dealers on Tuesday and/or Wednesday. I have meetings and appointments today, so that will have to wait to start until tomorrow or Saturday if I can get free. Thank you again, Greg.
@jmlanzaf, I thank you, truly, for your guidance, and I really do get your point. I have not JUST worked on Mint/Proof sets though. I have also looked at at least 600-700 loose coins as well, and then add the mint/proofs on top of that. I have said, I WILL be going to two coin dealers for their opinions, as I knew that I must do that even before I started on this journey. Again, one of the keys for me is seeing what I have learned, and my accuracy, as compared to the dealers and you professionals. If I do not try, and for me that entails a very good hard college try, I will not have any confidence in what I have learned, and then I will forever just refer the customers to the dealers directly. However, if I have some evidence that I have done well in picking out the best of the items in these collections, then I can take a look next time for clients, and say, "I doubt you need to waster your time or money on this and that, and you should double check on these..." Not much more to it than that, what I decide to do with my time and learning is an individual choice, plus, I have found this very interesting. Who knows, maybe I will stick with it from now on, and truly become skilled, and maybe even in the future, consider myself a real numismatist! I have read and considered every comment every person has made, and do hear, that it is a "waste of time," especially with Mint/Proof sets, in general. I get it, thank you!
I have learned that I have a better way, more clear and realistic way to take my photos, thanks to nwcoast! So, I will retake everything again, and see if there is any change in opinions! If not, that is okay, if so, then I am glad I did not miss something! Thank you nwcoast!
Comments
I agree. But, as I said, the more common approach is to simply have a local dealer who advises. Heritage doesn't have one person running all the different units. They have experts in each of the different units. Smaller houses have consultants in each unit. If we had spent the last week talking about classic US gold, I could maybe see it. The amount of time being devoted to proof and mint sets is simply beyond reasonable - from a business case. The answer, given by several, going back to the initial posting is that modern mint/proof sets simply aren't worth the time or effort. Yet, here we are still discussing them. Call GC, Heritage, and Stacks about modern mint/proof sets and see what they tell you. They will tell you that they will wholesale them for you if part of a larger estate or that they are simply not interested if that's all that you have.
After looking at your pictures, there are many spots, high point wear, scratches, etc that are obvious indicators that they are not coins for which to incur grading fees. For some reason, I feel we are being trolled.
I don't think so. But even if we are, it's been a pleasant discussion. It's a much nicer thread than the triple overdate pareidolia.
The '69-D half has two serious flaws that keep it out of being gradable.
It is a very nice coin in about the 98th %ile in terms of cleanliness and it is generally well struck by good dies. The tarnish is almost certain to come off in an acetone soak. Unfortunately the green corrosion on the obverse will not come off. There are those who can mitigate it enough that the coin will grade but this is expensive. The reverse has the poorly struck area that won't help it.
There should be great luster under that haze so it's a keeper but I doubt it will grade quite high enough to warrant the cost.
Sometimes the haze will hide a little little roughness but I doubt that this is an issue in this case.
I don't have enough experience with '71-D Ikes to advise. They do come very very nice but I can't prove it by the rolls I've seen. This one is certainly very nice and has great luster as is sometimes seen on the date. I think there may be too much planchet marking and more roughness under the haze. It should be removable as well.
It's definitely a keeper but it might top out around MS-65.
Ikes are tough in Gem and so is the '71-D.
@daltex, thank you for your kind support. I am doing my best, and can not do much better than that. The good thing is it includes learning, and growing, and finding the fun again, that I used to have with my Grandmother when she taught me about coin collecting. It is very interesting, and very detail oriented, and my brain is into that! Will I become a numismatist, I am not sure at this point, but it is clearly and endless journey, just like Fine Western art, and especially Asian art, antiques and antiquities, which are OVERLOADED with extremely good forgeries, and that takes a LOT of sleuthing. Sincerely, Greg.
Also, in the end, how am I to learn, if I do not put the effort into learning. Let alone, quitting because I am "shamed" from my efforts which turn up no "valuable" results. So, because most of these coins are "worthless" in the numismatic world, I should just quit? Because I am not as capable as people who have been doing this for years and/or all their lives, I should just give up? Because I do not yet understand the right process, and best ways to deal with things, I should give up? That is VERY FAR from my style! Not gonna happen! I have been a researcher all my life, and this tickles my brain! I also DO NOT let down my customers with the facts I gather... they may be let down by prices, but not the facts! That is all I am interested in. One of the very interesting things about Asian pieces is, for most, you have to suss out the truth, and more often than not, that means proving that something is a fake in the end, and thus has limited value! I tell my clients, "You may not like my answers, but you will get the truth of what you have out of me, so be ready!" Integrity, Ehtics and Honesty are the only way! It is not fun letting down a client, but it is a necessary pain in my business!
there are some videos on youtube that cover grading - you need to learn about luster and strike (need them both to get high grades)
money.org also has past seminars online that is a great resource
that 72-D half looks weakly stuck, probably limiting it to MS65 max
Except that the lesson here could have been much shorter: wholesale Mint & Proof sets. Several people mentioned the issue very early in this thread.
And simply having a consultant coin dealer isn't the same as "giving up". It's making a business decision. Do you have the thousands of hours necessary to become even a modestly skilled numismatist?
@davewesen, Thanks for the comments. Yes, I have looked at a bunch of the PCGS and YouTube videos on the coins. They have also been very enlightening. I have looked at money.org a few times as well, do not recall if I watched any of their videos or not in the many I have watched so far, but it is possible too. Kennedy 1/2 at MS-65 max - thanks for the kind opinion! That is the kind of thing I think it most important now. Then to the dealers. If I had not been ill (possible that damn RSV!), and we had not had winter weather here, with terrible drivers in WA (some of the worst in good conditions I know of in the country, let alone in troubling weather), I would have visited the dealers on Tuesday and/or Wednesday. I have meetings and appointments today, so that will have to wait to start until tomorrow or Saturday if I can get free. Thank you again, Greg.
@jmlanzaf, I thank you, truly, for your guidance, and I really do get your point. I have not JUST worked on Mint/Proof sets though. I have also looked at at least 600-700 loose coins as well, and then add the mint/proofs on top of that. I have said, I WILL be going to two coin dealers for their opinions, as I knew that I must do that even before I started on this journey. Again, one of the keys for me is seeing what I have learned, and my accuracy, as compared to the dealers and you professionals. If I do not try, and for me that entails a very good hard college try, I will not have any confidence in what I have learned, and then I will forever just refer the customers to the dealers directly. However, if I have some evidence that I have done well in picking out the best of the items in these collections, then I can take a look next time for clients, and say, "I doubt you need to waster your time or money on this and that, and you should double check on these..." Not much more to it than that, what I decide to do with my time and learning is an individual choice, plus, I have found this very interesting. Who knows, maybe I will stick with it from now on, and truly become skilled, and maybe even in the future, consider myself a real numismatist! I have read and considered every comment every person has made, and do hear, that it is a "waste of time," especially with Mint/Proof sets, in general. I get it, thank you!
I have learned that I have a better way, more clear and realistic way to take my photos, thanks to nwcoast! So, I will retake everything again, and see if there is any change in opinions! If not, that is okay, if so, then I am glad I did not miss something! Thank you nwcoast!