I can understand the business model, attempting to pull in collectors fresh to numismatics.
However I think it will ultimately only really work well for moderns, which is how they are launching it. NGCX will certify modern coins minted from 1982 to present.
I couldn't care less what scale is used as it's only a number. Of singular importance should be across the board consistency. i.e. the grade should be definitive, meaning if you resubmit in the hope of getting a different grade, you should be on a hiding to nothing. Won't happen of course, because all grading is subjective with no cast iron standards - irrespective of who does it (TPG or individual). Within the context of variable 'standards', the choice of scale becomes irrelevant.
My opinion is that this is for a certain audience. I don’t believe it is intended for the hard core collectors or to change the grading scale. It piggybacks on the grading in collectibles markets that already exist - cards, comics, etc. I believe it is easier for a person who wants to try out the coin market to understand what a 10 means based on just simplicity and the fact that the 10 point scale is prevalent across many collectible areas. Try explaining what a 70 means to someone who is only casually interested in coins and is looking for an extension/diversification to their current collection. For that matter, step back and think how odd a 70 point scale is and how 11 of the grades refer to the same state of preservation with tiny variations. Really? For that matter, don’t even get me started on how using units of 4, 8, 12, 16 etc. is better than 10, 100, 1000, etc.
@MrBreeze said:
My opinion is that this is for a certain audience. I don’t believe it is intended for the hard core collectors or to change the grading scale. It piggybacks on the grading in collectibles markets that already exist - cards, comics, etc. I believe it is easier for a person who wants to try out the coin market to understand what a 10 means based on just simplicity and the fact that the 10 point scale is prevalent across many collectible areas. Try explaining what a 70 means to someone who is only casually interested in coins and is looking for an extension/diversification to their current collection. For that matter, step back and think how odd a 70 point scale is and how 11 of the grades refer to the same state of preservation with tiny variations. Really? For that matter, don’t even get me started on how using units of 4, 8, 12, 16 etc. is better than 10, 100, 1000, etc.
If it's designed to attract people who don't care about coins, only the potential value of the slab, then no, it's not needed. It's a cynical money-making ploy.
When I first saw it, I thought it was 10 points, which would be more useful to a collector as a general description of wear. 100 points is crazy. Even 70 points is far, far too many. Of course, it isn't really 100, since it goes up in 0.5s for much of the scale, but they need the microscopic detail at the top end for the investors, not the collectors.
@JohnConduitt said:
When I first saw it, I thought it was 10 points, which would be more useful to a collector as a general description of wear. 100 points is crazy. Even 70 points is far, far too many. Of course, it isn't really 100, since it goes up in 0.5s for much of the scale, but they need the microscopic detail at the top end for the investors, not the collectors.
The single tenth differentiations correspond with single point differentiations on the 70 point scale. I, as a collector and not investor, play heavily in that space. The differentation of mint state coins is still very much in the space of collectors.
@JohnConduitt said:
When I first saw it, I thought it was 10 points, which would be more useful to a collector as a general description of wear. 100 points is crazy. Even 70 points is far, far too many. Of course, it isn't really 100, since it goes up in 0.5s for much of the scale, but they need the microscopic detail at the top end for the investors, not the collectors.
The single tenth differentiations correspond with single point differentiations on the 70 point scale. I, as a collector and not investor, play heavily in that space. The differentation of mint state coins is still very much in the space of collectors.
It's hard to explain how the difference between MS70 and MS69 or MS68 and MS67 is important to someone only interested in the coin, unless they look at their coins at 5x magnification all the time with an eye trained to seek out specific types of flaw. According to Sheldon, anything MS67 or above has 'exceptional eye appeal', which is surely as much as a collector wants, particularly with older coins. Looking in ever more precise detail manufactures value differentials, which certain auction houses are keen to exploit.
If it's designed to attract people who don't care about coins, only the potential value of the slab, then no, it's not needed. It's a cynical money-making ploy.
There is an argument to be made for condition rarity but framing the argument seems to be lacking an understanding that condition rarity exists at multiple grade levels. Sadly a grading re-calibration from 70 to 100 or some variation of 1 to 10 with decimal points does not change anything.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I get that NGCX 10 would be considered the same as MS70, but then what? Where would an NGCX 2 equate to? Does the full 10 NGCX scale apply to the MS coins, or does it cover all the way down to, say, a coin currently graded as "G". I can see it applying to new coins, but hope it does not supplant the current 70 scale for older coins.
Comments
Hummm...interesting. Why not 1-100?
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
I can understand the business model, attempting to pull in collectors fresh to numismatics.
However I think it will ultimately only really work well for moderns, which is how they are launching it. NGCX will certify modern coins minted from 1982 to present.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Exactly. It’s really a 100-point scale, as they have tenth of a point granularity.
It’s meant for the telemarketer community I’m sure
Latin American Collection
This came 40 years late. Now even in Europe use 1 to 70. Infuriating.
This does not change what matters... buy into the concept of quality for the grade
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Interesting! lets see what will happen, but I might use it!!
Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter
I support converting to a base 10 system in principle. I also support allocating a greater portion of the range to uncirculated coins.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
I couldn't care less what scale is used as it's only a number. Of singular importance should be across the board consistency. i.e. the grade should be definitive, meaning if you resubmit in the hope of getting a different grade, you should be on a hiding to nothing. Won't happen of course, because all grading is subjective with no cast iron standards - irrespective of who does it (TPG or individual). Within the context of variable 'standards', the choice of scale becomes irrelevant.
My opinion is that this is for a certain audience. I don’t believe it is intended for the hard core collectors or to change the grading scale. It piggybacks on the grading in collectibles markets that already exist - cards, comics, etc. I believe it is easier for a person who wants to try out the coin market to understand what a 10 means based on just simplicity and the fact that the 10 point scale is prevalent across many collectible areas. Try explaining what a 70 means to someone who is only casually interested in coins and is looking for an extension/diversification to their current collection. For that matter, step back and think how odd a 70 point scale is and how 11 of the grades refer to the same state of preservation with tiny variations. Really? For that matter, don’t even get me started on how using units of 4, 8, 12, 16 etc. is better than 10, 100, 1000, etc.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/collectors-showcase/world-coins/one-coin-per-year-1600-2017/2422
If it's designed to attract people who don't care about coins, only the potential value of the slab, then no, it's not needed. It's a cynical money-making ploy.
When I first saw it, I thought it was 10 points, which would be more useful to a collector as a general description of wear. 100 points is crazy. Even 70 points is far, far too many. Of course, it isn't really 100, since it goes up in 0.5s for much of the scale, but they need the microscopic detail at the top end for the investors, not the collectors.
The single tenth differentiations correspond with single point differentiations on the 70 point scale. I, as a collector and not investor, play heavily in that space. The differentation of mint state coins is still very much in the space of collectors.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
It's hard to explain how the difference between MS70 and MS69 or MS68 and MS67 is important to someone only interested in the coin, unless they look at their coins at 5x magnification all the time with an eye trained to seek out specific types of flaw. According to Sheldon, anything MS67 or above has 'exceptional eye appeal', which is surely as much as a collector wants, particularly with older coins. Looking in ever more precise detail manufactures value differentials, which certain auction houses are keen to exploit.
Welcome to third party grading.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Ugh, I hate it. As far as I know, there is no issue with the current one. Changing it would be useless.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. Young Numismatist. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON
There is an argument to be made for condition rarity but framing the argument seems to be lacking an understanding that condition rarity exists at multiple grade levels. Sadly a grading re-calibration from 70 to 100 or some variation of 1 to 10 with decimal points does not change anything.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I get that NGCX 10 would be considered the same as MS70, but then what? Where would an NGCX 2 equate to? Does the full 10 NGCX scale apply to the MS coins, or does it cover all the way down to, say, a coin currently graded as "G". I can see it applying to new coins, but hope it does not supplant the current 70 scale for older coins.
"Is this what we really need now? A new grading scale"
I expect we'll find out. If the service takes off, the answer is "Yes", if not it's "No".