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1916 doubled die Buffalo Nickel question

VetterVetter Posts: 789 ✭✭✭✭✭

This is for the Buffalo Nickel collectors out there. Do you consider the 1916 doubled die part of the set? I know the 18/7 D and 37 D 3 leg have a hole in many albums so they are mostly considered part of the set but none have a 16 DD hole. So let me know your feeling on where it stands in your mind. Thanks!
Oh, if you have one, let’s see it.

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a part of the set. Even though most peeps do not (and never will) have one. As bad as that is, it's a collecting reality.

    The 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter, with 52.000 minted is a good example.

    I don't think albums should have a 1916 DD hole, rare as it is. It should be collected on the side and dutifully noted when a complete set is finished.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    1Bufffan1Bufffan Posts: 619 ✭✭✭

    With as few that are available not all collectors will be able to have one for their collection, and the ones that do have it will more likely be a lower grade because of not being found for such a long period of time. it would be needed to have a complete set if that is what the collector wants to do.

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    124Spider124Spider Posts: 848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't feel that die errors/varieties ever should be considered part of the set. While I like them, and buy them when I can, they are not regular issues; if you include some, where do you draw the line? Should a 1943 copper Lincoln cent be part of a complete set? No.

    That said, we each get to decide what we consider to be "a full set" when we're collecting. Well, up to a point--the 1916 SLQ obviously is a part of the set, since it was a regular issue. But I don't consider the 1895 Morgan dollar to be part of a normal "complete set," since it was issued only as a proof coin; the 1893-S, as expensive as it may be, obviously is a part of a normal complete set, since it was issued as a normal coin, for circulation.

    JMO.

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's only a part of the set if you want it to be. After all, it is simply a die pair and not an intentional alteration in design. If you want to collect varieties or errors then add them, but the set as intentionally issued by the US Mint did not have that coin in mind.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2022 12:08PM

    @Vetter said:
    This is for the Buffalo Nickel collectors out there. Do you consider the 1916 doubled die part of the set? I know the 18/7 D and 37 D 3 leg have a hole in many albums so they are mostly considered part of the set but none have a 16 DD hole. So let me know your feeling on where it stands in your mind. Thanks!
    Oh, if you have one, let’s see it.

    The two main buffalo nickel varieties are the 1918/7-d and the 1937d 3 legged.
    Then you might want to add the 1938-d over s variety. Because of the extreme rarity of the 1916/1916 it does not show
    up in most buffalo nickel collector's sets. Just too darn expensive. But if you can buy one, or even be lucky enough to find
    one then of course you can put it into your set.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No doubt they're the same coin. The one on the bottom has more detail than the top one. No doubt an earlier die state or a previous re-work.

    The bottom feather is there on the bottom coin. I'm also confused by the metal blob in the area of the front leg and the one next to the second leg.

    Doesn't matter. Sometimes I don't know what I'm talking about.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    OnWithTheHuntOnWithTheHunt Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2022 2:04PM

    NOTE: This is a response to the 16 DDO post.

    Have one in my set, along with several other major varieties, but it's a much lower grade than the rest of the coins, which range from XF to UNC.

    Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).
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    dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I shopped until I found an older Dansco album that did not include the 18/17 and 37 3-leg slots. I consider this a complete set.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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    BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dbldie55 said:
    I shopped until I found an older Dansco album that did not include the 18/17 and 37 3-leg slots. I consider this a complete set.

    I tried to find a used Dansco album of ebay that did not have the overdate and three legger in the album with no luck!
    Best to just put these two biggies in the extra unlabeled slots that are there, I think there are 6 unlabeled slots.
    So you could put, say, an 18/7d, a 37d 3 legs, a 38d over s, a 16 doubled die obverse therein!

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BUFFNIXX said:

    The above specimen is one I bought after I sold the first one shown above which was graded
    Uncirculated details, spot removed net grade ms60. The second one shown here graded ms63

    How do I get one?

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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:

    @BUFFNIXX said:

    The above specimen is one I bought after I sold the first one shown above which was graded
    Uncirculated details, spot removed net grade ms60. The second one shown here graded ms63

    How do I get one?

    with a lot of work, or a lot of $'s.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,328 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally I don't think the 18/17-D or the 37-D 3 leg should have an album spot since they are varieties.
    If you want a complete set with major varieties then I would consider them and the 1916 DDO and, 1935 DDR part of the set.

    Collector, occasional seller

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Collect as you want and can afford. Add varieties if it is important to you. Your hobby, your set, your choices. Cheers, RickO

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    124Spider124Spider Posts: 848 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2022 12:04AM

    @ricko said:
    Collect as you want and can afford. Add varieties if it is important to you. Your hobby, your set, your choices. Cheers, RickO

    As I said above, I generally agree with you. But the album manufacturers (especially Whitman) have a nasty habit of including some expensive varieties in the album (1955 DDO Lincoln cent, anyone?). It would be annoying to have what one considered to be a "complete set," only to have holes in the album pages because the album vendor insists on including very expensive varieties.

    Interesting thought--Can you imagine what would happen to the cost of the varieties routinely included in albums (e.g., 1955 DDO; 1922 plain Lincoln cent; 1918/7-D buffalo nickel; the two 1942/41 Mercury dimes), if they suddenly no longer were included? Maybe the more expensive ones wouldn't have their prices affected, but I suspect the lesser ones (e.g., 1972 DDO Lincoln cent; 1942/41 Mercury dimes) would see a very significant price drop.

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    DCWDCW Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe the 1916 ddo was discovered in the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. That was probably past the point of establishing the "classic" major varieties like the 3 legger and overdate.
    I dont think the price would be affected at all if they were removed from albums. I don't think people are plugging in 1955 doubled die cents into cardboard folders anymore.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    I believe the 1916 ddo was discovered in the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. That was probably past the point of establishing the "classic" major varieties like the 3 legger and overdate.
    I dont think the price would be affected at all if they were removed from albums. I don't think people are plugging in 1955 doubled die cents into cardboard folders anymore.

    While they don't plug them into albums anymore, the hole in the album is often what created interest in the beginning collectors. It wouldn't be an immediate effect, but I think over a generation it might decrease interest.

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    DCWDCW Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @DCW said:
    I believe the 1916 ddo was discovered in the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. That was probably past the point of establishing the "classic" major varieties like the 3 legger and overdate.
    I dont think the price would be affected at all if they were removed from albums. I don't think people are plugging in 1955 doubled die cents into cardboard folders anymore.

    While they don't plug them into albums anymore, the hole in the album is often what created interest in the beginning collectors. It wouldn't be an immediate effect, but I think over a generation it might decrease interest.

    It may have created interest in the beginning, but we are in the 21st century. The internet changed the way we receive information

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @DCW said:
    I believe the 1916 ddo was discovered in the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. That was probably past the point of establishing the "classic" major varieties like the 3 legger and overdate.
    I dont think the price would be affected at all if they were removed from albums. I don't think people are plugging in 1955 doubled die cents into cardboard folders anymore.

    While they don't plug them into albums anymore, the hole in the album is often what created interest in the beginning collectors. It wouldn't be an immediate effect, but I think over a generation it might decrease interest.

    It may have created interest in the beginning, but we are in the 21st century. The internet changed the way we receive information

    But people still plug holes. They may be registry sets as well as blue books, but there are numerous varieties that have little interest compared to the "hole varieties" despite being sometimes dramatic and often scarce.

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    rec78rec78 Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2022 10:48AM

    @DCW said:
    I believe the 1916 ddo was discovered in the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. That was probably past the point of establishing the "classic" major varieties like the 3 legger and overdate.
    I dont think the price would be affected at all if they were removed from albums. I don't think people are plugging in 1955 doubled die cents into cardboard folders anymore.

    I remember that the 1916 DDO was discovered in the mid-1960's, and it was very valuable right away. I sold over 1800 date-less buffalos on ebay in the early 2000's that my dad had pulled from circulation. I nicka-dated the mint marked ones but not the P-mint issues. Wish I had nicka-dated them. :/:/ As, even a nicka-dated 1916 DDO will bring a lot of money.

    Is it part of the set?
    My collection habits do not include coins that there are no specified holes for in the album.
    It is a variety. Where do you put the limit on sets? Should minor varieties be included also? This is a question only you can answer for your collecting needs. If all you collect if buffs and nothing else, then yes you need it as much as you need a 1935-DDR or 1936-3 1/2 leg and the 1938-D overmint mark coins and every other buffalo variety. How about 3 feather varieties? A complete set is up to you and no-one else.

    image

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