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Thanks for the comments...
burfle23
Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭✭✭
I continue to add to the reports with the help of a couple of members without much other response; PCGS Mods had an appropriate response early on...
1
burfle23
Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭✭✭
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I definitely think it is worth continuing. Many members are not skilled in identifying such fakes and this helps them to learn and avoid losing money. Cheers, RickO
depends on what your goal(s) are with the effort.
was/is pcgs official position (still?) to remove the certs of known counterfeits (i'm not in agreement) or to just put a notice on the page? perhaps they do nothing. it certainly doesn't help the brand for everyone to know just how horrible the situation is but at the same time, it isn't like we are seeing them at a ratio of fakes 10:1 on reliable venues; perhaps on less vigilant sites.
i don't mind helping like posting links/items/ideas that may be beneficial but i'm for sure not into tracking down the coins like you all are but i certainly don't discourage it. (for my part)
speaking only for myself, i'm kinda just waiting to see what the whole thing evolves into over the long-haul (if long-term is one of your goals) so that for my part, i know how and what to contribute effectively.
i certainly wouldn't discount the effort by the ones that have participated so far. i linked that thread i (with morrissine's assistance) from many years go somewhat similar to what you are doing and i'm not sure what good it did, if any.
perspective for thwarting crime of any type, has VERY weird lines. we'll NEVER stop any of it fully but doing it like a regular 9 to 5 is kinda disingenuous so we have to go into things like this and have our own peace of mind of what we want out of it. you know you are never going to get rid of all of them, not even close, so you have to ask yourself, can i do this week in and week out, w/o actually seeing tangible results other than pcgs nuking/warning about certain certs and some stuff removed from the bay.
it is a nice and safe effort the way we have/are doing this but the real change starts elsewhere. i really wouldn't be surprised if people are making this crap right here or canada/mexico etc. and if they are making 10000x what you are able to stop, you gotta get your head right or you simply will not last.
it sounds weird but that is our human war. when i go out and pick up trash, i do so KNOWING there will be more tomorrow to pick up so i CANNOT have it in my mind that i can stop there from being trash there again unless i start working on it somewhere near the source and there are solutions for that but it is not picking up the trash, it is making it so there is less trash to pick up and/or that the trash gets to where it needs to go besides the landfill etc. which takes place with a lot of conversations in-person and online. (we recently got brown trash bins with wheels that is just for cardboard where as before we had green for trash and blue for recycling cans/glass etc) so that is a little progress of a LOT of cardboard not going into the landfill and perhaps even shaping how some people perceive their carbon footprint in their life.
sorry to be so wordy but i've been wondering if you would get discouraged or frustrated as I and many of us have and do fight this stuff head-on, along with other forums/groups and wonder where we all get the motivation/devotion knowing how much time/effort/frustration etc comes from it all but there is a lot of good that is done. (not just removal of counterfeits)
have you gone into the ebay community coin section, if there is one and help educate them? you have a good plan but perhaps where it is implemented and/or how may help get you into the right head space for a daunting task like this? again, along with what are your goal(s).
never discount also, even if you don't see the results often or immediately of whom you may be inspiring and what efforts they may go out and do.
Keep up the good fight! There are lurkers, like me, who read your threads. If I don't have anything to contribute, then I won't post.
Please continue. I read the posts and it helps me remain aware that this problem exists and helps me know what to look out for. I would not be aware of the extent of the problem without your posts
Mr_Spud
Please continue. There are many silent viewers and the knowledge is priceless. I have said it before and shall say it again. I can't thank you enough for keeping the light shining on this horrible problem. You are doing a great service to this hobby.
I appreciate your efforts and comments from your other thread make it appear other members appreciate it also.
@pmh1nic "Appreciate the effort to search, find and post examples of fraud."
@IKU "This is best thread ever."
@johnny010 "I had no idea fake certs even existed."
Sorry I have not contributed but after 20 years of chasing fakes on ebay and trying to get them to remove them or take action against the sellers can get discouraging. I do it for a while and when I start to get discouraged I take a break. Don't feel bad if you need to take a break to preserve your sanity. I have become very discouraged with ebay and quit buying over a year ago and I closed up shop and quit selling back in July, I have not been on the site much at all. This is part of the reason you have not had any reports from me for a while. I know there will be plenty of fakes when I decide to jump back in. You have made some great progress in getting PCGS to deactivate some of the cert numbers and that never happened in the past. You are making a difference and your efforts are appreciated more than you know. You don't hear from the buyers that take time to do an internet search before they buy and you save them from making a bad purchase. You have a great "in" with ebay to help get listings removed and years ago it was very difficult to get them to remove anything. You are making great progress but it's an uphill battle and you have known that for a long time, keep fighting the good fight. There are many lurkers here on this site that are not members but they see the information you post. There are many readers on CoinWeek that read your articles that you never hear from. Many of these folks appreciate your efforts but you never hear from them. If we get discouraged and give up the counterfeiters win.
Thank you Jack, your numismatic knowledge and time is an outstanding benefit to the numismatic community.
Certainly a worthwhile project, however, only you know how much time it is taking to continue with this.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I like your posts - it is interesting to see how well the newer counterfeiters are getting the coins and slabs.
@burfle23 - You have taught me more about half cent counterfeits in the last 48 hours than I have taught myself in the rest of my life combined. I really can't thank you enough for the work you are doing.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Rather than start a new thread for these here is a couple of 1909 S VDB's that need to be removed.
Thanks for your help!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/385218277740
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185653075471
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125593694731
@burfle23
The information you provide on counterfeits is invaluable. I have learned a lot from your posts and articles. Please keep posting as your time permits
I have not responded because I have nothing to add.
I do appreciate your efforts.
Reported.
I’m in what might be a larger category that you recognize. I don’t have any thing to add ( amazingly 😁) but I’m grateful for you investing time and energy on this topic.
I shop alot on eBay and am certainly more aware, thanks to you and folks like “ ifthevams” etc. of the problem on the site 🤨
Thanks very much 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Thank you for fighting the good fight! Even tho folks might not comment often enough your vigilance is appreciated..
@LanceNewmanOCC my goal is simply to educate as many people as possible about the counterfeit issue with the information available in as many coin forums as I can. I enjoy the research and the opportunities to learn and Teamwork in Groups (one I founded 5+ years ago) of like minded folks who also love the Hobby and are concerned with this threat.
With over 50+ published articles on the subject including Coin Week (43 to date), EAC's Penny Wise, the LSCC's Gobrecht Journal, C4's Colonial Newsletter and ANA's Numismatist I have also turned to other "social" coin forums such as this one for mutual information sharing and learning; this one in particular as it has the attention of the largest TPG to also help which I feel is in their best interest as well as all Hobbyists.
And if the result is a less experienced individual takes the time to look up a cert and sees a potential issue that causes him/ her to take pause then this is all worth it...
I appreciate the topic though having nothing to add.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
@burfle23 Here's a few more that need to be removed.
I spent a little time looking for a fake holder to contribute to your thread but this is all I have found for now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/295327704224
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204146121301
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325415697481
Looks like ebay didn't remove this one in time.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125593694731
This one is still active but the other 2 Morgan's have been removed.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/295327704224
Just takes patience; I suspect they are both large sellers and takes time...
just a reminder, if one has a dummy account or two, you can bid on the items to ensure no one else wins them. i was doing that with a couple of my accounts but i finally just switched the last one back over to try a creative-ish selling idea but if it doesn't work i'll probably switch it back.
while i do want to put more effort into it, i think about the only way that is going to happen is if ebay would pay someone to visit the main 2-3 coin forums with a dedicated thread to items deemed counterfeit and nuke em about 1-2 times a day.
fwiw though, you all were getting stuff nuked there for a while before virtually all the items i was bidding on actually made it to the end.
i also would report more if people would stop ignoring my humble request to post the report item link like i've showed several times. so much more efficient/effective and i have a feeling multiple reports helps bring attention to listings. fwiw
hey, i'll have you guys know, that is a rare authemtic undocumented inverted mm on that 09-s vdb!
The breast feathers and the arrow feathers are comical on the 2021 CC
.
isn't the mm circle thing smaller too? it seems i remember looking at some of these recently and thinking the mm thing looked comically small.
Yeah it looks off and the size & shape of the CC's.
Still reporting fake PCGS slabs with the help of a couple of friends!
Your work has helped me become fairly proficient in carson city's and your shared knowledge is PRICELESS!!
You are a tremendous talent to our wonderful hobby
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I appreciate and need the knowledge. Your efforts class this place up. Happy holidays. Peace Roy
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X2 - this is really valuable information that greatly benefits all forum members!
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Your thread is a great resource to document the fakes out there as well as a place to learn more about what is hitting the market. The continuation of it would benefit lots of people.
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
I posted my last counterfeit coin/ holder on my reporting post; I hope everyone stays vigilant reviewing coins for sale on the internet with the increasing traffic of bad coins/ bad PCGS holders...
it is a good thing you are posting those as they are different quality coins/holders for fakes and while most are pretty obvious (to me since i have my head all the way up numismatics' butt) there are a lot of people out there that aren't as familiar and i'm quite confident that while though we don't often hear/see those our (many of us) efforts do help out in some way, i am confident we do.
Burfle—
Your thread is an extremely valuable post for all of us. Your resources allow collectors like me to become savvier and avoid the scammers, which is a tremendous value to our hobby.
I acquire coins through shows, dealers, and online resources and have encountered several hard-to-detect fakes. For the past several years, I have been studying methods to detect counterfeit slabs/coins, as this hobby is inundated with opportunities to be conned.
You have no way of knowing that I have spent significant time studying your thread and concluding how helpful it is; I need to share those comments in the thread for feedback.
Thank you so much for your hard work and effort in sharing this research and your progress in combating fraud. I hope you continue this thread, and I will commit to sharing examples as I find them to help in this cause.
On a side note, as part of my research on counterfeit slabs, I came across a Webinar posted at the ANA eLearning Academy. The Webinar of 01/20/2021 features Isaiah Hageman, who is a talented young numismatist who has done significant work in counterfeit slab detection-- here is his video if you have not seen it:
Burfle, I appreciate your posts
As do I.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@burfle23 I love the work you put into these threads. I like others have nothing to contribute unfortunately. The knowledge you provide to us is WELL worth it. Responses may be few, but I'm sure you are having a positive impact. You have on me. Keep up the GREAT work.
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