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Nickels never change? 1866-2022

VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 11, 2022 10:29PM in U.S. Coin Forum

The composition of nickel five cent pieces in 2022 is identical to the original 1866 piece. 5 grams of 25% nickel, 75% copper.

War nickels excepted, they have never changed composition. I've heard the mint has considered changing the metallic content many times but never has. Why is that?

Amazing after 156 years they remain the same. The last "real" circulating money perhaps?

Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The diameter changed a bit in 1883.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I imagine that the composition is very durable and therefore, amazingly, and not the normal procedure, they seem to be following the old adage “ if it ain’t broke don’t fix it 😁.
    Perhaps 🙀

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:
    I've heard the mint has considered changing the metallic content many times but never has. Why is that?

    I'd always assumed it was the nickel lobby that has done it.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:

    @VanHalen said:
    I've heard the mint has considered changing the metallic content many times but never has. Why is that?

    I'd always assumed it was the nickel lobby that has done it.

    Nickel interests got it introduced but it's likely mere momentum that keeps it going.

    I wonder what the metal in it will be worth the day they finally kill it or change it.

    Tempus fugit.
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko Silver Dollar. :D
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jesbroken.... Sure Jim, :D and the AGE.... ;) Cheers, RickO

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Today's Jefferson nickel is the last holdout from the days of circulating "hard money" in the 19th century.

    It's cool we still have one denomination true to its heritage. In this digital age I don't want to take that for granted.

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,957 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Composition works for me - I still find 1938 & 1939 nickels not to mention the welcome finds of the 40's and 50's while roll searching.

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    And strangely, the only coin that takes it's name (nickel) from the metal used to make it... and not the largest portion of metal. Cheers, RickO

    They did used to refer to large cents as "coppers".

  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Jefferson nickel is really a different kind of animal from other denominations due to the much higher content of the very hard element of "nickel", 25% versus 8.33% for others. Exactly 3X the amount, 3 X 8.33 equals 25%. Its usage in coin blanks for nickels continues to play havoc with collector's in their search for fully detailed pristine coins. A few coins have been turning up with PL fields. Evidence of strike problems are easily seen in what photos are available to the public. Search Bing or Google to see what I mean, like collectors don't already know. Collectors who have carefully sought EDS examples of every date have a heads up on the future market. I suspect values will explode to 6 figures over time as collectors become aware how rare a PL EDS FS example is. Perhaps not in my lifetime but it will eventually occur. One thing I can be certain of, I don't have huge amounts of cash sunk in coins with poor strikes. Too high of a risk, IMO.

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    And strangely, the only coin that takes it's name (nickel) from the metal used to make it... and not the largest portion of metal. Cheers, RickO

    To be accurate, the current "nickel" is the third coin of that moniker.

    The first "Nickel" was the 88%-12% copper-nickel flying eagle / early Indian head cents (1857-1864)

    The second "Nickel" was the 75%-25% three-cent copper-nickel (1865ff)

    Finally, the 75%-25% 5c coin became the Nickel and that stuck.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @leothelyon said:
    The Jefferson nickel is really a different kind of animal from other denominations due to the much higher content of the very hard element of "nickel", 25% versus 8.33% for others. Exactly 3X the amount, 3 X 8.33 equals 25%. Its usage in coin blanks for nickels continues to play havoc with collector's in their search for fully detailed pristine coins.

    I'm not 100% sure, but aren't the outer laters of clad coins (not including golden dollars) made from the same alloy as the nickel?

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @leothelyon said:
    The Jefferson nickel is really a different kind of animal from other denominations due to the much higher content of the very hard element of "nickel", 25% versus 8.33% for others. Exactly 3X the amount, 3 X 8.33 equals 25%. Its usage in coin blanks for nickels continues to play havoc with collector's in their search for fully detailed pristine coins.

    I'm not 100% sure, but aren't the outer laters of clad coins (not including golden dollars) made from the same alloy as the nickel?


    Source: https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/dictionarydetail/515490

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    @JBK said:

    @leothelyon said:
    The Jefferson nickel is really a different kind of animal from other denominations due to the much higher content of the very hard element of "nickel", 25% versus 8.33% for others. Exactly 3X the amount, 3 X 8.33 equals 25%. Its usage in coin blanks for nickels continues to play havoc with collector's in their search for fully detailed pristine coins.

    I'm not 100% sure, but aren't the outer laters of clad coins (not including golden dollars) made from the same alloy as the nickel?


    Source: https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/dictionarydetail/515490

    Thx for that.

    Hmmm. The plot thickens... What strip are they referring to? The layered strip which includes the pure copper core? In that case they would need to add nickel to make an alloy for the outer clad layers. (I checked the link and it appears that this is what is occurring).

    But, in any case, it says the clad layers are 75/25, which is the same as the nickel.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dimes and quarters 1965-date; halves 1971-date; dollars 1971-1978 (all excluding special coins) pure copper core with cladding layers of 75% copper, 25% nickel. Proportions of cladding to core 1-4-1.
    SBA dollars 1979-1981 and 1999: same metals but proportions 1-2-1.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @leothelyon said:
    The Jefferson nickel is really a different kind of animal from other denominations due to the much higher content of the very hard element of "nickel", 25% versus 8.33% for others. Exactly 3X the amount, 3 X 8.33 equals 25%. Its usage in coin blanks for nickels continues to play havoc with collector's in their search for fully detailed pristine coins. A few coins have been turning up with PL fields. Evidence of strike problems are easily seen in what photos are available to the public. Search Bing or Google to see what I mean, like collectors don't already know. Collectors who have carefully sought EDS examples of every date have a heads up on the future market. I suspect values will explode to 6 figures over time as collectors become aware how rare a PL EDS FS example is. Perhaps not in my lifetime but it will eventually occur. One thing I can be certain of, I don't have huge amounts of cash sunk in coins with poor strikes. Too high of a risk, IMO.

    I've seen exceedingly few PL nickels from before 1965 but then I've only looked at many. I've seen later ones but they are rare nice or awful except for a very few dates. For instance there were thousands of one sided PL '80-D's (reverse). Two sided PL '80-D's are little more common than other dates. About one coin in a thousand is at least a little PL in mint sets. Some date are far scarcer and some may not exist. A few moderns were made for circulation in PL mostly one sided (reverse) quarters back in the late '60's. These are all ugly in my experience.

    Another grossly underrated nickel are coins in VVVEDS. These are the first few (5 or 7) nickels off of a brand new die pair. They are more easily found in mint sets because dies were swapped out after only 40,000 strikes. These can be fantastic and run the gamut from looking like matte proof to fully PL depending on die preparation,

    Nickels that are fully struck and have all the planchet scratches obliterated are even scarcer yet. With nickels it's not so much marking as it is planchet marking.

    Then if this interesting enough there are FS coins that can be even rarer yet.

    There might be about 10 nickels in all my searches that I consider truly rare and virtually unimprovable. I've sold three of them. This is one of the greatest thing about modern nickels; it doesn't take much experience before you can spot a rare one.

    I used to put the ugliest PL's in circulation. I quit that 20 years ago.

    Early die state and hammered strikes are the way to go with most Jeffersons. PL's are the icing on the cake.

    Tempus fugit.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2022 1:36PM

    @JBK said:

    But, in any case, it says the clad layers are 75/25, which is the same as the nickel.

    Yes. This was one of the chief reasons the mint wanted the composition for clad. They could make strip from nickels and they could recycle clad by simply adding it to nickel.

    And, of course, with 75/ 25 they could make either nickels or strip.

    Tempus fugit.
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • EstilEstil Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2022 9:01PM

    Some things will never change...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo

    PS: Did anyone find out for sure if Bruce is related to baseball great Rogers Hornsby and if so in what way?

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