@Rampage, I’m kinda stumped. While your folder does have Poughkeepsie NY, the paper doesn’t look right. Could you show a close up of the 3 folders-face on, and the inner pages. Everything else looks right for a first edition, but the paper. Or maybe the way you pictured it doesn’t show the textured paper. I’m not anywhere near knowledgeable about all the different styles. Yours are very early by the way.
@jfriedm56 said: @BUFFNIXX , so what would be a ballpark figure. When I talked to David Lange the other day, he said in his 40+ years of collecting these 1st editions, he’s only seen 1 Standing Liberty half dollar folder and it’s in his collection. It’s extremely rare and it looks like I own only the second one known.
The real question is how many collectors with money want to collect these early folders? My suspicion is that the number is very, very small. I consider them "interesting" but nothing I would ever pay any serious money to obtain.
@jfriedm56 said: @BUFFNIXX , so what would be a ballpark figure. When I talked to David Lange the other day, he said in his 40+ years of collecting these 1st editions, he’s only seen 1 Standing Liberty half dollar folder and it’s in his collection. It’s extremely rare and it looks like I own only the second one known.
The real question is how many collectors with money want to collect these early folders? My suspicion is that the number is very, very small. I consider them "interesting" but nothing I would ever pay any serious money to obtain.
@291fifth, I totally agree. The most I ever have spent on an old folder is 50 cents, even for 1st editions cause dealers don’t want or know or care about them. I basically collect them for the thrill of the hunt and their history. I mean that’s a part of coin collecting history, some that are 80 years old for 50 cents, it’s fun!
I posted this in a previous 'early coin folder' thread. It's of my mother, in an ad promoting collecting in folders c. 1941. She was not a coin collector, but she had this in her scrapbook and showed it to me in the '60s as I was starting to fill folders. Looks like a first edition quarter album to me.
.
@jfriedm56 said: @BUFFNIXX , so what would be a ballpark figure. When I talked to David Lange the other day, he said in his 40+ years of collecting these 1st editions, he’s only seen 1 Standing Liberty half dollar folder and it’s in his collection. It’s extremely rare and it looks like I own only the second one known.
The real question is how many collectors with money want to collect these early folders? My suspicion is that the number is very, very small. I consider them "interesting" but nothing I would ever pay any serious money to obtain.
@291fifth, I totally agree. The most I ever have spent on an old folder is 50 cents, even for 1st editions cause dealers don’t want or know or care about them. I basically collect them for the thrill of the hunt and their history. I mean that’s a part of coin collecting history, some that are 80 years old for 50 cents, it’s fun!
That's the way to collect them. Never bury yourself in thin market items.
Here is an easy way to tell a first from a second edition folder.
Look at the listing of available folders on the end flap.
on the first edition folder .........
there are three folders under the heading "XX" the last of which is "No. 9024 Two Cent Nickel- Three Cent - 1864 to 1989"
while on the early second edition folders ..........
there are four folders under the XX heading the last of which is "No. 9025 Silver Dollars -- General",
Of course if the end flap is missing, incomplete or defaced you use some other point of identification such as the
texture of the blue cover (lizard skin) or the distinctive black backing visible on the inside of the folder.
When I say four folders for the second edition I mean the early editions, as folders were added to the line they were also
added to the flap.
Another way to say it ..........
The only folders with only three entries under XX on the end flap are first edition folders.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
@BUFFNIXX said:
Here is an easy way to tell a first from a second edition folder.
Look at the listing of available folders on the end flap.
on the first edition folder .........
there are three folders under the heading "XX" the last of which is "No. 9024 Two Cent Nickel- Three Cent - 1864 to 1989"
while on the early second edition folders ..........
there are four folders under the XX heading the last of which is "No. 9025 Silver Dollars -- General",
Of course if the end flap is missing, incomplete or defaced you use some other point of identification such as the
texture of the blue cover (lizard skin) or the distinctive black backing visible on the inside of the folder.
When I say four folders for the second edition I mean the early editions, as folders were added to the line they were also
added to the flap.
Another way to say it ..........
The only folders with only three entries under XX on the end flap are first edition folders.
To me that’s awfully confusing. For me personally, the 3 definitive bullets for a first edition are: 1) copyrighted 1940 with Poughkeepsie, N.Y. On lower last flap. 2) deep blue colored folder with alligator type textured skin. 3) internal glue lines in black colored inner holes. Easiest way to tell.
Lets me put it this way,
If you suspect that you have a first edition folder look at the XX on the end flap.
If there are only three entries for available folders under the XX then it is first edition
otherwise it is a second (or greater) edition folder
This might be a bit subtle but is the easiest way to determine if you have a first edition fodler.
buffnixx
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I thought perhaps I had stumbled upon a first edition Whitman Folder yet this thread saved me and it is indeed a second generation instead.
(BUFFNIXX's posts were the assist.) https://www.ebay.com/itm/276797274224
@BUFFNIXX, @braddick. Braddick, I’m not convinced that the folder you are referring to with the four lines under the XX is not a 1st edition. It has all the correct boxes checked for a 1st edition except what BUFFNIXX calls 4 lines a 2nd edition. I have not seen any written references that state it would be considered a 2nd edition if it meets all the criteria of a 1st edition, but has 4 lines instead of 3. Please show me a written reference from any credible source, such as David Lange or other authors saying 1st editions only have 3 lines, not 4 please.
@BUFFNIXX said:
As you can see on the first page, there are two holes for the 1892-O half dollar, one is called the "medium O" variety
and the second is referred to as "microscopic O". The "micro O" variety as it is also called, is extremely rare and I think
the estimate of its mintage is around 200 specimens. And there is also two openings for the 1894-s, "high S" and
"low S" varieties. Eventually Whitman removed the plugged hole for the 1892s micro O variety and left the two
1894s openings as they were. Eventually they consolidated the two openings for the 1894s into one and created a
third version of this first volume starting 1892. Collectors were not too happy with the first two versions because
of a lack of interest for the two minor positional varieties of the 1894S and the lack of availability for the 1892-O
micro O. A very interesting folder indeed.
I love learning more and more about these early first and second edition Whitman albums.
I am thinking this is a second edition?
@BUFFNIXX said:
As you can see on the first page, there are two holes for the 1892-O half dollar, one is called the "medium O" variety
and the second is referred to as "microscopic O". The "micro O" variety as it is also called, is extremely rare and I think
the estimate of its mintage is around 200 specimens. And there is also two openings for the 1894-s, "high S" and
"low S" varieties. Eventually Whitman removed the plugged hole for the 1892s micro O variety and left the two
1894s openings as they were. Eventually they consolidated the two openings for the 1894s into one and created a
third version of this first volume starting 1892. Collectors were not too happy with the first two versions because
of a lack of interest for the two minor positional varieties of the 1894S and the lack of availability for the 1892-O
micro O. A very interesting folder indeed.
I love learning more and more about these early first and second edition Whitman albums.
I am thinking this is a second edition?
(Seller's photos)
I don’t believe that this is a first edition as I do not see Poughkeepsie, N.Y. Copyright, only Racine, Wisconsin. Thanks for posting. Zack.
I just looked through my collection of blue Whitman folders and found these:
Half Dime 1794 - 1873 c. 1940
Bust Type Dime 1796 - 1837 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1837 - 1862 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1863 - 1891 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Quarter 1838 - 1865 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Quarter 1866 - 1891 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1839 - 1850 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1851 - 1862 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1863 - 1873 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1873 - 1891 c. 1956
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I collect in blue Whitman folders exclusively, so I have all the ones from back in the day when I started. I used to find old & world editions at the local Mom & Pop coin store for $1 each, which is how I expanded my horizons within U.S. coins, as well as to Darkside countries like Mexico, UK, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand. I also got a few Darkside that I needed from hief Coin & Supply in Oskosh, WI. Have several with the old names for various coins from back in the 40's.........
@RichieURich said:
I just looked through my collection of blue Whitman folders and found these:
Half Dime 1794 - 1873 c. 1940
Bust Type Dime 1796 - 1837 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1837 - 1862 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1863 - 1891 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Quarter 1838 - 1865 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Quarter 1866 - 1891 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1839 - 1850 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1851 - 1862 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1863 - 1873 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1873 - 1891 c. 1956
Nice. Do any of them have the 1940 copyright with the Poughkeepsie,N.Y. printed on the inner back flap? If so, I believe those are first editions. Good luck.
@RichieURich said:
I just looked through my collection of blue Whitman folders and found these:
Half Dime 1794 - 1873 c. 1940
Bust Type Dime 1796 - 1837 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1837 - 1862 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1863 - 1891 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Quarter 1838 - 1865 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Quarter 1866 - 1891 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1839 - 1850 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1851 - 1862 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1863 - 1873 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1873 - 1891 c. 1956
Nice. Do any of them have the 1940 copyright with the Poughkeepsie,N.Y. printed on the inner back flap? If so, I believe those are first editions. Good luck.
Unfortunately, no. All of them show Racine, Wisconsin.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
@RichieURich said:
I just looked through my collection of blue Whitman folders and found these:
Half Dime 1794 - 1873 c. 1940
Bust Type Dime 1796 - 1837 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1837 - 1862 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1863 - 1891 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Quarter 1838 - 1865 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Quarter 1866 - 1891 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1839 - 1850 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1851 - 1862 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1863 - 1873 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1873 - 1891 c. 1956
Nice. Do any of them have the 1940 copyright with the Poughkeepsie,N.Y. printed on the inner back flap? If so, I believe those are first editions. Good luck.
Unfortunately, no. All of them show Racine, Wisconsin.
The rippled glue within the backs of the holes, which leaves rippled toning on (usually) the reverse of the coins, was caused by the early tri-folds being made by applying the glue to the entire front of the backing sheet, and then pressing the backs of the three already punched and printed cardboard holders onto that. After complaints were received, they changed the process so that they applied the glue to the backs of the three punched and printed holders, and then pressed them only the unglued backing sheet. Viola! No glue in the bottom of the hole.
As to the P-S-D vs. P-D-S mint mark order, Ken Bressett once told me that this was because Wayte Raymond arranged the mint marks in the order that the Mints were opened in his books and folders, and when Whitman used the same order in their books and folders Raymond grumbled about possible copyright infringement. So, eventually Whitman changed to an alphabetical order for their mint marks.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
The rippled glue within the backs of the holes, which leaves rippled toning on (usually) the reverse of the coins, was caused by the early tri-folds being made by applying the glue to the entire front of the backing sheet, and then pressing the backs of the three already punched and printed cardboard holders onto that. After complaints were received, they changed the process so that they applied the glue to the backs of the three punched and printed holders, and then pressed them only the unglued backing sheet. Viola! No glue in the bottom of the hole.
As to the P-S-D vs. P-D-S mint mark order, Ken Bressett once told me that this was because Wayte Raymond arranged the mint marks in the order that the Mints were opened in his books and folders, and when Whitman used the same order in their books and folders Raymond grumbled about possible copyright infringement. So, eventually Whitman changed to an alphabetical order for their mint marks.
Exactly. I’ve illustrated this earlier in this thread. For those who might have missed it.
Not sure if the older vintage Whitman's had stronger backs, but when I started collecting in albums, used a Washington & Franklin Whitman album. Punched holes in the back for both. When I started collecting Morgans and Peace dollars in albums, decided to go with the LOC and Dansco albums. Figured bigger heavier coins will have the same results. Probably just me.
Comments
I bought these some time ago from a dealer’s silver junk box and these have the telltale signs of being in an early folder with the glue.
@jfriedm56 Here are mine...
Pretty cool!! I know a dealer that has a few he just gives away, going to look through them to see if any are older.
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
@Rampage, I’m kinda stumped. While your folder does have Poughkeepsie NY, the paper doesn’t look right. Could you show a close up of the 3 folders-face on, and the inner pages. Everything else looks right for a first edition, but the paper. Or maybe the way you pictured it doesn’t show the textured paper. I’m not anywhere near knowledgeable about all the different styles. Yours are very early by the way.
Here are some of mine. Acquired them in an estate.
The real question is how many collectors with money want to collect these early folders? My suspicion is that the number is very, very small. I consider them "interesting" but nothing I would ever pay any serious money to obtain.
@291fifth, I totally agree. The most I ever have spent on an old folder is 50 cents, even for 1st editions cause dealers don’t want or know or care about them. I basically collect them for the thrill of the hunt and their history. I mean that’s a part of coin collecting history, some that are 80 years old for 50 cents, it’s fun!
I posted this in a previous 'early coin folder' thread. It's of my mother, in an ad promoting collecting in folders c. 1941. She was not a coin collector, but she had this in her scrapbook and showed it to me in the '60s as I was starting to fill folders. Looks like a first edition quarter album to me.
.
That's the way to collect them. Never bury yourself in thin market items.
I guess these are vintage folders. 1949 copywriter. The only good vintage folder, is a used vintage folder. 😉
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I have a bunch of these Whitman first gen 1940 folders used to fill them as a kiddo. Has anyone seen this one, not Whitman…
Here is an easy way to tell a first from a second edition folder.
Look at the listing of available folders on the end flap.
on the first edition folder .........
there are three folders under the heading "XX" the last of which is "No. 9024 Two Cent Nickel- Three Cent - 1864 to 1989"
while on the early second edition folders ..........
there are four folders under the XX heading the last of which is "No. 9025 Silver Dollars -- General",
Of course if the end flap is missing, incomplete or defaced you use some other point of identification such as the
texture of the blue cover (lizard skin) or the distinctive black backing visible on the inside of the folder.
When I say four folders for the second edition I mean the early editions, as folders were added to the line they were also
added to the flap.
Another way to say it ..........
The only folders with only three entries under XX on the end flap are first edition folders.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
To me that’s awfully confusing. For me personally, the 3 definitive bullets for a first edition are: 1) copyrighted 1940 with Poughkeepsie, N.Y. On lower last flap. 2) deep blue colored folder with alligator type textured skin. 3) internal glue lines in black colored inner holes. Easiest way to tell.
Lets me put it this way,
If you suspect that you have a first edition folder look at the XX on the end flap.
If there are only three entries for available folders under the XX then it is first edition
otherwise it is a second (or greater) edition folder
This might be a bit subtle but is the easiest way to determine if you have a first edition fodler.
buffnixx
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Moot issue for me, my wife threw them out years ago. “You don’t need these if they are empty.”
I did see one (Barber Dimes, blue Whitman) in an estate viewing not long ago - best grade was good. Any better dates were culls.
I thought perhaps I had stumbled upon a first edition Whitman Folder yet this thread saved me and it is indeed a second generation instead.
(BUFFNIXX's posts were the assist.)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276797274224
peacockcoins
I collect them if they have never been used. I never as the half dime or seated dime books. My best would be the 20th Century Type or a Barber 50c.
@BUFFNIXX, @braddick. Braddick, I’m not convinced that the folder you are referring to with the four lines under the XX is not a 1st edition. It has all the correct boxes checked for a 1st edition except what BUFFNIXX calls 4 lines a 2nd edition. I have not seen any written references that state it would be considered a 2nd edition if it meets all the criteria of a 1st edition, but has 4 lines instead of 3. Please show me a written reference from any credible source, such as David Lange or other authors saying 1st editions only have 3 lines, not 4 please.
I love learning more and more about these early first and second edition Whitman albums.
I am thinking this is a second edition?
(Seller's photos)
peacockcoins
I don’t believe that this is a first edition as I do not see Poughkeepsie, N.Y. Copyright, only Racine, Wisconsin. Thanks for posting. Zack.
@jfriedm56
I thought it might be the second edition.
peacockcoins
I just looked through my collection of blue Whitman folders and found these:
Half Dime 1794 - 1873 c. 1940
Bust Type Dime 1796 - 1837 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1837 - 1862 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Dime 1863 - 1891 c. 1940
Liberty Seated Quarter 1838 - 1865 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Quarter 1866 - 1891 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1839 - 1850 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1851 - 1862 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1863 - 1873 c. 1956
Liberty Seated Half Dollar 1873 - 1891 c. 1956
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I collect in blue Whitman folders exclusively, so I have all the ones from back in the day when I started. I used to find old & world editions at the local Mom & Pop coin store for $1 each, which is how I expanded my horizons within U.S. coins, as well as to Darkside countries like Mexico, UK, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand. I also got a few Darkside that I needed from hief Coin & Supply in Oskosh, WI. Have several with the old names for various coins from back in the 40's.........
I wonder how many collectors actually pulled the plug out of the rare spot and actually filled the hole in the folder.
Nice. Do any of them have the 1940 copyright with the Poughkeepsie,N.Y. printed on the inner back flap? If so, I believe those are first editions. Good luck.
Unfortunately, no. All of them show Racine, Wisconsin.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Well that’s ok. They’re fun to collect anyway.
The rippled glue within the backs of the holes, which leaves rippled toning on (usually) the reverse of the coins, was caused by the early tri-folds being made by applying the glue to the entire front of the backing sheet, and then pressing the backs of the three already punched and printed cardboard holders onto that. After complaints were received, they changed the process so that they applied the glue to the backs of the three punched and printed holders, and then pressed them only the unglued backing sheet. Viola! No glue in the bottom of the hole.
As to the P-S-D vs. P-D-S mint mark order, Ken Bressett once told me that this was because Wayte Raymond arranged the mint marks in the order that the Mints were opened in his books and folders, and when Whitman used the same order in their books and folders Raymond grumbled about possible copyright infringement. So, eventually Whitman changed to an alphabetical order for their mint marks.
Exactly. I’ve illustrated this earlier in this thread. For those who might have missed it.
Not sure if the older vintage Whitman's had stronger backs, but when I started collecting in albums, used a Washington & Franklin Whitman album. Punched holes in the back for both. When I started collecting Morgans and Peace dollars in albums, decided to go with the LOC and Dansco albums. Figured bigger heavier coins will have the same results. Probably just me.