Is it a Possible the Mint is Headed into Subscription Only? Noticed HHL's on '23 ASE's
younique
Posts: 882 ✭✭✭
2023 ASE proof subscriptions "not available" with HHL of 25. Unc is available by subscription with HHL of 10. Not sure I've seen that in the past. Apologize if this has been discussed previously.
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I’m good with that. Tired of chasing a down site beaten by bots…unless of course they figure that out as well.
I would think we would hear such a move announced by the Mint. Or, they may just be playing both options.... Cheers, RickO
Could be that is eventually where they may end up, with the supply issues, bots, etc.
I'm sure the bot users, will figure out a way to still prevail.
😁🦫🙀😸😻
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Let's hope. We can always find their stuff on eBay for less in a year or two. Usually for less.
I have no idea how the Mint decides what's going to be made available by subscription, and what isn't. For instance, why is the "Limited Edition Silver Proof Set" not available by subscription, but next year's Morgan and Peace coins will be? I see no downside to the Mint of making offerings available by subscription.
Subscriptions are the way to go, at least for me. With the exception of the Liberty Medal and the 2.50 ounce Armed Forces Medals, all of my orders are on subscription.
The mint has stated (if I recall) that the ASEs for THIS year had the subscriptions sold out. The TV guys were even hawking this. Yet I bought EVERY version online from the mint with no hassles or delays in the ordering process at the date of sale???
So - who knows what it really means if the subscriptions are sold out?
They WERE sold out. What happened was that flippers figured out that the Mint was selling to bulk purchasers outside the published mintage limits, and that caused them to cancel a ton of subscriptions, which made coins available to anyone paying attention at release. How many of them are not sold out now?
That model seems to represent a sweet spot for everyone. Dealers get what they need to run a business. Collectors don't get shut out, but mintage limits are in a range where these things hold their value and remain desirable, allowing the Mint to maximize sales without killing demand.
And without obscene flipping profits (because dealers are getting what they need from the Mint and aren't driving prices sky high in the aftermarket), the bots move on to the next Big Thing. Win-Win-Win.
Only thought is bots will be buying the pre orders. I can see it now.
The current Mint subscription business model doesn't allow collectors to purchase every Mint offering. Early on with this subscription service many collectors were unaware that they had to subscribe or take their chances on the sale date. As of the date of this thread I had never seen a HHL on ASE's. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Subscriptions with tiny HHL's on every offering only allows dealers to become market makers.
I just wait for it come out on eBay after the market has decided what’s it’s worth. That’s if I even have an interest in that issue. At my last show picked up a few mod Commem silver $ in ogp from walkup seller - nice coins.
Nope, because they only go after things that are difficult to get, because that guarantees the lucrative flip. They are not collectors, and for the most part don't know the difference between any two coins they are going after.
They don't have the patience, or capital, to subscribe on spec, when subscriptions are freely available to all, and then have their cards hit for purchases, and then receive the coins, and then see if there is a flip, and then return them if there isn't, until the Mint closes their account for abusing the return privilege.
This is just not their game, which is why this model is perfect for the rest of us.
No, subscriptions with tiny HHLs allow true collectors to be able to get what they want. Unsold inventory becomes available with no limit to hoarders and would be flippers 24 hours after release, when it is then unwanted because it did not already sell out. This year, each and every ASE was available at release, even though they all "sold out" through subscriptions.
Dealers are buying their inventory through the bulk purchase program, outside the HHLs imposed through the subscription program, and reselling at modest premiums to those who don't want to deal with the Mint or want graded coins. Everyone is happy, other than the flippers, because they don't have an opportunity to gobble up limited mintages to immediately resell to dealers at big markups.
Bots are run by humans. If a desirable coin is coming out (gold v75) bots will be in play. No one really cares about most of the crap the mint is putting out, so no need for bots to buy, or frankly anyone else.
Subscription will only work when there is no demand curve since a pre order can also sell out based on a predetermined limited quantity. The only true fix is a pre order with no limit to supply which ends up predicating total sales.
I guess, but there is no history of anything like the Gold v75 ever being offered by subscription. No mintage limit ends up totally killing demand, as with annual uncirculated and proof sets, which have never been targets for flippers.
The Mint just seems to have solved the problem with the ASEs, Morgans and Peace Dollars. The mintages are in the hundreds of thousands, which roughly approximates demand. Dealers get what they want outside the limits, and collectors get what they want within the limits.
There are no bots because there is no big guaranteed profit. Maybe no one (meaning flippers) cares, but hundreds of thousands are being sold, without the website crashing, and without people who want to collect having to pay flippers large markups.