Does the PCGS receiving office carefully inspect each package before they sign for it? I can't imagine a properly packaged box of coins would be easy to open and reclose without it being detected.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Does the PCGS receiving office carefully inspect each package before they sign for it? I can't imagine a properly packaged box of coins would be easy to open and reclose without it being detected.
Some boxes aren't taped, are opened by thieves and then resealed, making detection unlikely. Some others are taped, opened by thieves and re-taped (with different tape) in a manner that's undetectable.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@PerryHall said:
Does the PCGS receiving office carefully inspect each package before they sign for it? I can't imagine a properly packaged box of coins would be easy to open and reclose without it being detected.
Some boxes aren't taped, are opened by thieves and then resealed, making detection unlikely. Some others are taped, opened by thieves and re-taped (with different tape) in a manner that's undetectable.
I can't imagine a box being used for shipping rare coins and not being heavily taped. I don't think it's that easy to cut open a box to steal a coin without it being detected under close examination even if the thief retapes it. What hurts a lot of coin shippers using the USPS is a label on a small box showing a high dollar amount paid for shipping which tells the postal employee that there's something valuable inside the box such as an expensive watch, jewelry or coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
An update...got an email from FedEx saying they received my claim and are "actively investigating" it. They will get back to me in 14 days. I have no idea if this is good or bad.
@RLSnapper said:
An update...got an email from FedEx saying they received my claim and are "actively investigating" it. They will get back to me in 14 days. I have no idea if this is good or bad.
Don't take anything as good unless you have cleared payment from them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@coinbuf said:
I have used FedEx for many shipments, but I always use private insurance. That way I'm sure I'm covered and by not declaring extra value I'm not making it easy or highlighting my package for the thieves.
When you ship coins to PCGS would they, potential thieves, just know that coins were inside via the PCGS address on the package?
To answer your question would call for a complete speculation on my part. While it certainly is possible, perhaps even likely, there is no way I can know what every employee at FedEx knows about the business of PCGS. Also, I do not submit to PCGS as I often do not agree with how they grade, I have used FedEx for my shipments to the NJ bean factory. And before you ask, I also cannot speculate on if the FedEx employees in NJ know what type of services CAC provide either.
@RLSnapper said:
An update...got an email from FedEx saying they received my claim and are "actively investigating" it. They will get back to me in 14 days. I have no idea if this is good or bad.
Just curious. (If you are not comfortable sharing any more details, please just ignore this question.)
A key element of this claim will be proving the loss (i.e., providing evidence that the package arrived at PCGS without contents).
Was PCGS willing to provide you with any documentation that supported your claim (e.g., a letter stating that they received an empty box)?
@RLSnapper said:
An update...got an email from FedEx saying they received my claim and are "actively investigating" it. They will get back to me in 14 days. I have no idea if this is good or bad.
It's bad. They will get back to you, if they get back to you, and let you know that the "investigation" turned up no evidence of loss or foul play while the package was in the possession of FedEx. They might go a step farther and tell you to contact the recipient and ask for an investigation there, as well. They will then be done with the matter.
While I appreciate the fine print that has been enlarged for those of us that are aged experienced and have experienced matters we would rather not experience, this falls within the scope of being one of them.
Just to remind folks here, Fedex as a rule does not deliver to a P O Box. Please keep that in mind in selecting your carrier of choice.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Maybe a thread on 3rd party insurance is warranted?
I am interested.
I have gotten more than a few comments on my drone hobby from a (total unknown to me) part time USPS employee. He knew me by my FB page and PO Box apparently.
He was trying to get me to buy his overpriced older drone... but still
Another knows about my ebay coin/card/collectibles store.
I try to visit only him.
When using registered he carefully tapes everything up for me.
Not that I trust USPS employees, but Registered mail is the only way I mail anything serious.
I am a small fish... but PSA/BGS/PGCS Submissions, Rolex's, high end sports cards... never an issue
I should probably use it more often even for the $100 items that are sometimes sold.
Sorry for your loss.
A great coin probably lost again for 150 years.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
@pcgscacgold said:
I only use USPS since a UPS employee stole 10 coins coming back from ANACS. Driver handed me an empty box. UPS didn’t care their employee took the coins.
USPS doesn't really care either, I had a 1 month of held mail stolen for a post office and at the end they just shrugged.
@coinbuf said:
I have used FedEx for many shipments, but I always use private insurance. That way I'm sure I'm covered and by not declaring extra value I'm not making it easy or highlighting my package for the thieves.
When you ship coins to PCGS would they, potential thieves, just know that coins were inside via the PCGS address on the package?
Who’s the last person you know that mailed pcgs a Christmas card, for example? Everything is packages of coins
Well...that was a quick investigation! Fedex has APPROVED my claim and is issuing me a check for $481.35. That's the $460 I paid for the coin plus the shipping costs. I guess they must have seen something on the cameras. From now on it will be USPS. I will hunt down the 1845 N-15 as my White Whale! Thanks to all for your support .
Years ago, I always sent registered, but over the years, it just took so long for the packages to get there and get logged in, so I switched to Express, double boxing and shipping only in the interm week days. About 6 months ago, had one containing a lot of stuff go missing for a while, luckily it was located in the sanfrancisco international terminal about to be shipped out of here. Quick response from po Supv manage to save that one, wasnt rifled through either. Fast forward to 4 months ago, had a 4 submissions package going to ngc disappear out of the local distribution center here. Nothing, gone. I had 2k insurance, but post office wanted to only cover $15 bucks due to it not being sent registered, even though I had all the proper paper work, reciepts, etc, it was a fight for months, but finally on the last appeal, they approved it. the 2k was helpful, but would have come out way better if they had graded and sold. From that point on, I only send registered. Not only that, if i get more expensive submissions, I now just drive them to the show in baltimore and submit them there.
I had UPS deny a damage claim once though I had paid the insurance. Since I shipped it out of Staples, I filed a complaint with the state and got a call from Staples corporate to compensate me. State consumer affairs is often a possible remedy. Too bad on the big claims we can't file in small claims court when we get thefts like this.
This can't be current information. I just received a 12 coin submission back from NGC delivered by FEDEX.
It's not current information. The only thing that comes close to collectible coins in the list of prohibited items in their Service Guide is "Cash and currency." And I doubt there's a single person here who would categorize their coins as "cash", as in "spending money", worth face value.
This can't be current information. I just received a 12 coin submission back from NGC delivered by FEDEX.
Current or not, the linked information does not appear to apply to intra-U.S. shipments.
1) Left click the link.
2) Left click the "X" in the upper right corner of the pop-up window that asks you to choose your location.
3) Left click "more details" under "can I send monetary units?".
4) Scroll through the document.
I cannot read Japanese. That said, it seems to be the rules that apply to 'FedEx Express' shipments with a nexus to Japan (e.g., international shipments departing Japan).
Great news on that front, I primarily deal in large cents and am on ebay and other sites daily looking at the new ones that are listed, your coin is pretty unique, not sure what the odds are of it surfacing anytime soon but I will keep an eye out for it!!
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
@RLSnapper said:
Well...that was a quick investigation! Fedex has APPROVED my claim and is issuing me a check for $481.35. That's the $460 I paid for the coin plus the shipping costs. I guess they must have seen something on the cameras. From now on it will be USPS. I will hunt down the 1845 N-15 as my White Whale! Thanks to all for your support .
I would let them know if they happen to recover item........
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@BStrauss3 said:
That is very much a current restriction. What it means in practical purposes is if you try to file a claim they will refuse to pay it.
The 2022 T&C can be found here. The the part that pertains to domestic Express shipments of "collector's coins" can be found on Page #128. Specifically, in F.11, under "declared value". In short, "collector's coins" appear to be allowed, but are constrained by a max declared value of $1,000.
If I understood the OP's most recent update correctly, FedEx has already approved his claim.
@RLSnapper said:
Well...that was a quick investigation! Fedex has APPROVED my claim and is issuing me a check for $481.35. That's the $460 I paid for the coin plus the shipping costs. I guess they must have seen something on the cameras. From now on it will be USPS. I will hunt down the 1845 N-15 as my White Whale! Thanks to all for your support .
i'm kinda late to the party for the approve claim part but wouldn't the actual value of the attributed coin if it is truly a high CC coin be much more than that? i ask because while getting the purchase cost back, i'm not sure i'd consider that a victory in this instance but i appreciate you sharing it all for posterity and learning to be sure.
keep those pics for sure in case it ever pops up in the CC down the road somewhere.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
i'm kinda late to the party for the approve claim part but wouldn't the actual value of the attributed coin if it is truly a high CC coin be much more than that?
I'd be surprised if anyone would compensate you for the loss of a raw coin based on the value of a slabbed one.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
i'm kinda late to the party for the approve claim part but wouldn't the actual value of the attributed coin if it is truly a high CC coin be much more than that?
I'd be surprised if anyone would compensate you for the loss of a raw coin based on the value of a slabbed one.
I sent two raw Varieties in for grading, one was the 2nd known example of the 1957 d/d Washington Quarter and the second coin was a beautiful 1953 Proof Quarter with Engraved tail Feathers 2nd known example. I insured both coins for 1000 bucks and Both were stolen by a Post office worker in anaheim Ca.
I had pictures and my local dealer saw the coins before I sent them and wrote a letter to there grades when he saw them. After the third time they finally paid me the 1000. They caught the guy after he had already stole 7 packages and hid them in a wall and came back later.
Caught him with another members coins but never found mine. At the time both coins were worth a lot more than the money I received but I think I paid around 200 for them raw.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
i'm kinda late to the party for the approve claim part but wouldn't the actual value of the attributed coin if it is truly a high CC coin be much more than that?
I'd be surprised if anyone would compensate you for the loss of a raw coin based on the value of a slabbed one.
i am under the impression it was slabbed upon shipment to pcgs but the angle i was asking from was about properly insuring/shipping coins with significant premium to only be proven/realized after attribution. about the only service i would even consider reliable for such a scenario is usps registered and tbh, if the value was high enough, i'd just seek private insurance and discuss how they handle such a scenario with paying out a claim. it would basically take a numismatist familiar with value nuance.
i feel for people in this situation but we seem to keep a regular stream of them posting for the entire 10+ years i've been a member so i usually try to take the time to discuss outside usps/fedex/ups insurance alternatives. specialty services for various collectables. ya know?
it is kinda painful to keep reading these threads and i know if i found a possible #3 CC, even for a late-date, i'd for SURE do some auction archive results from well-known copper collections to get an estimated value and then for sure seek the cost of even just 1 year or perhaps 1 shipment cost (if such an option exists) so that i could at least take a big bite out of the potential value in the case of a loss like this. surely a lot more than $500. i gotta figure w/o doing some research for this example easily 5-10x for a near top CC coin even if it takes a while to place to a buyer.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
i'm kinda late to the party for the approve claim part but wouldn't the actual value of the attributed coin if it is truly a high CC coin be much more than that?
I'd be surprised if anyone would compensate you for the loss of a raw coin based on the value of a slabbed one.
I sent two raw Varieties in for grading, one was the 2nd known example of the 1957 d/d Washington Quarter and the second coin was a beautiful 1953 Proof Quarter with Engraved tail Feathers 2nd known example. I insured both coins for 1000 bucks and Both were stolen by a Post office worker in anaheim Ca.
I had pictures and my local dealer saw the coins before I sent them and wrote a letter to there grades when he saw them. After the third time they finally paid me the 1000. They caught the guy after he had already stole 7 packages and hid them in a wall and came back later.
Caught him with another members coins but never found mine. At the time both coins were worth a lot more than the money I received but I think I paid around 200 for them raw.
.
i don't know if it was you or not but i for sure recall someone(s) posting such a scenario(s) for coins that needed a reliable source for valuation pre-grading/attribution. it is a creative way to protect your downside. kudos and thanks for sharing that!
even if they were more than your insured amount, that is the kinda bite i am talking about taking out of the potential future value, knowing they are worth way more than paid but maybe not near the top dollar of what they could realize at auction.
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
i'm kinda late to the party for the approve claim part but wouldn't the actual value of the attributed coin if it is truly a high CC coin be much more than that?
I'd be surprised if anyone would compensate you for the loss of a raw coin based on the value of a slabbed one.
i am under the impression it was slabbed upon shipment to pcgs but the angle i was asking from was about properly insuring/shipping coins with significant premium to only be proven/realized after attribution.
You're right, it was already slabbed. Sorry about that. As far as recovering the premium prior to having the coin attributed, I would think you'd have to have some sort of written appraisal from someone who would be recognized with expertise in the area. I don't think you'd likely get far just on your word.
@LanceNewmanOCC the current record price for the 1845 N-15 is $450 for a PCGS AU58 in 2018. That is the CC3 coin. It sucks because I will never cherrypick another...but realistically the coin may have been worth $1000 to the right collector. I sent FedEx a screenshot of what I paid on Ebay plus a picture of my copy of the PCGS submission form and a picture of my receipt. This documentation led to a quick resolution of my claim. I guess I could have had Bob Grellman take a look at the coin and have him attribute it prior to PCGS attributing it. I don't know Bob and would never have asked. Either way I set the record price when I bought it for $460. I am happy to get what I paid back but sad that this special coin will reside in my collection only in digital form.
@RLSnapper said: @LanceNewmanOCC the current record price for the 1845 N-15 is $450 for a PCGS AU58 in 2018. That is the CC3 coin. It sucks because I will never cherrypick another...but realistically the coin may have been worth $1000 to the right collector. I sent FedEx a screenshot of what I paid on Ebay plus a picture of my copy of the PCGS submission form and a picture of my receipt. This documentation led to a quick resolution of my claim. I guess I could have had Bob Grellman take a look at the coin and have him attribute it prior to PCGS attributing it. I don't know Bob and would never have asked. Either way I set the record price when I bought it for $460. I am happy to get what I paid back but sad that this special coin will reside in my collection only in digital form.
i THINK he still does attributions (for a fee) and if he does, i'm pretty sure he would have LOVED to have had that coin in-hand. fwiw. too late now of course but keep it in mind for the future.
also, keep in mind coinfacts pages for varieties. they do sometimes have sales results for cohens, sheldons, newcombs, overtons etc and a snapshot of the pcgs pop reports showing they recognize the variety and MAYBE even a price guide price for it?
unfortunately, in niche/specialty areas and combine that with the world we live in, it behooves one to do the stuff i mention above (and others) to optimize upside and protect downside.
there are a lot of threads that people start about how to handle lovely coins like the one you found and usually get some wonderful advice.
glad to hear you seem at peace with the situation. live to fight another day...
@LanceNewmanOCC said:
i'm kinda late to the party for the approve claim part but wouldn't the actual value of the attributed coin if it is truly a high CC coin be much more than that?
I'd be surprised if anyone would compensate you for the loss of a raw coin based on the value of a slabbed one.
i am under the impression it was slabbed upon shipment to pcgs but the angle i was asking from was about properly insuring/shipping coins with significant premium to only be proven/realized after attribution.
You're right, it was already slabbed. Sorry about that. As far as recovering the premium prior to having the coin attributed, I would think you'd have to have some sort of written appraisal from someone who would be recognized with expertise in the area. I don't think you'd likely get far just on your word.
perhaps we should have a pinned thread: Found a valuable/rare coin?, here are the top 10-15 PRO tips PRIOR to doing anything with it.
what the heck good is it if we find super rare/high-grade valuable stuff if it is just going to come up missing often enough for it to be a PIA and i recall more than enough of these threads to consider it a PIA although from a percentage standpoint, it is an extremely rare occurrence.
in doing business with some high-end dealers, they actually have a sheet of to-dos before you ship them ANYTHING that adheres to their private numismatic insurance provider. (what the heck is that word?) i don't recall the specifics as its been a while but i do recall doing a box-in-a-box along with express next-day shipping along with some other steps. fwiw
Interestingly, I posted the first hit from a Google Search, and while the .pdf says 2008, the copyright on the page says 2022 and FedEx never took down the link!!
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
fwiw, as a tactic to throw people off, you can study the size/weight vs the cost and ship coins in boxes WAYYY too big for them but w/o the cost going up much or at all. just make sure the box is strong and taped up well so it can't be "accidentally" pushed in. perhaps a box in another box just in case.
@coinbuf said:
I have used FedEx for many shipments, but I always use private insurance. That way I'm sure I'm covered and by not declaring extra value I'm not making it easy or highlighting my package for the thieves.
When you ship coins to PCGS would they, potential thieves, just know that coins were inside via the PCGS address on the package?
Who’s the last person you know that mailed pcgs a Christmas card, for example? Everything is packages of coins
You say that, but my Easter card to them resulted in a substantial upgrade on my Seated Liberty Dollar. Coincidence? I think not.
Comments
Does the PCGS receiving office carefully inspect each package before they sign for it? I can't imagine a properly packaged box of coins would be easy to open and reclose without it being detected.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Some boxes aren't taped, are opened by thieves and then resealed, making detection unlikely. Some others are taped, opened by thieves and re-taped (with different tape) in a manner that's undetectable.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I can't imagine a box being used for shipping rare coins and not being heavily taped. I don't think it's that easy to cut open a box to steal a coin without it being detected under close examination even if the thief retapes it. What hurts a lot of coin shippers using the USPS is a label on a small box showing a high dollar amount paid for shipping which tells the postal employee that there's something valuable inside the box such as an expensive watch, jewelry or coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I humbly suggest following the "PCGS Packaging & Mailing Guidelines".
Namely:
An update...got an email from FedEx saying they received my claim and are "actively investigating" it. They will get back to me in 14 days. I have no idea if this is good or bad.
Don't take anything as good unless you have cleared payment from them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To answer your question would call for a complete speculation on my part. While it certainly is possible, perhaps even likely, there is no way I can know what every employee at FedEx knows about the business of PCGS. Also, I do not submit to PCGS as I often do not agree with how they grade, I have used FedEx for my shipments to the NJ bean factory. And before you ask, I also cannot speculate on if the FedEx employees in NJ know what type of services CAC provide either.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Just curious. (If you are not comfortable sharing any more details, please just ignore this question.)
A key element of this claim will be proving the loss (i.e., providing evidence that the package arrived at PCGS without contents).
Was PCGS willing to provide you with any documentation that supported your claim (e.g., a letter stating that they received an empty box)?
It's bad. They will get back to you, if they get back to you, and let you know that the "investigation" turned up no evidence of loss or foul play while the package was in the possession of FedEx. They might go a step farther and tell you to contact the recipient and ask for an investigation there, as well. They will then be done with the matter.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
It is sad to read about this experience.
While I appreciate the fine print that has been enlarged for those of us that are aged experienced and have experienced matters we would rather not experience, this falls within the scope of being one of them.
Just to remind folks here, Fedex as a rule does not deliver to a P O Box. Please keep that in mind in selecting your carrier of choice.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Maybe a thread on 3rd party insurance is warranted?
I am interested.
I have gotten more than a few comments on my drone hobby from a (total unknown to me) part time USPS employee. He knew me by my FB page and PO Box apparently.
He was trying to get me to buy his overpriced older drone... but still
Another knows about my ebay coin/card/collectibles store.
I try to visit only him.
When using registered he carefully tapes everything up for me.
Not that I trust USPS employees, but Registered mail is the only way I mail anything serious.
I am a small fish... but PSA/BGS/PGCS Submissions, Rolex's, high end sports cards... never an issue
I should probably use it more often even for the $100 items that are sometimes sold.
Sorry for your loss.
A great coin probably lost again for 150 years.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
USPS doesn't really care either, I had a 1 month of held mail stolen for a post office and at the end they just shrugged.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Who’s the last person you know that mailed pcgs a Christmas card, for example? Everything is packages of coins
I have always used USPS. A lost outgoing insured decades ago was paid for the insured amount after an investigation.
Well...that was a quick investigation! Fedex has APPROVED my claim and is issuing me a check for $481.35. That's the $460 I paid for the coin plus the shipping costs. I guess they must have seen something on the cameras. From now on it will be USPS. I will hunt down the 1845 N-15 as my White Whale! Thanks to all for your support .
Great news!
Congrats !!!
Years ago, I always sent registered, but over the years, it just took so long for the packages to get there and get logged in, so I switched to Express, double boxing and shipping only in the interm week days. About 6 months ago, had one containing a lot of stuff go missing for a while, luckily it was located in the sanfrancisco international terminal about to be shipped out of here. Quick response from po Supv manage to save that one, wasnt rifled through either. Fast forward to 4 months ago, had a 4 submissions package going to ngc disappear out of the local distribution center here. Nothing, gone. I had 2k insurance, but post office wanted to only cover $15 bucks due to it not being sent registered, even though I had all the proper paper work, reciepts, etc, it was a fight for months, but finally on the last appeal, they approved it. the 2k was helpful, but would have come out way better if they had graded and sold. From that point on, I only send registered. Not only that, if i get more expensive submissions, I now just drive them to the show in baltimore and submit them there.
Congrats!!! So glad to hear about a good outcome!
Wow, I’m thoroughly surprised with how quickly they settled, and the fact that they settled at all. Nice
Founder- Peak Rarities
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Good news that FedEx paid.
Awesome! Congratulations and great job on filing the claim!😎
I had UPS deny a damage claim once though I had paid the insurance. Since I shipped it out of Staples, I filed a complaint with the state and got a call from Staples corporate to compensate me. State consumer affairs is often a possible remedy. Too bad on the big claims we can't file in small claims court when we get thefts like this.
Using private insurance
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
This can't be current information. I just received a 12 coin submission back from NGC delivered by FEDEX.
It's not current information. The only thing that comes close to collectible coins in the list of prohibited items in their Service Guide is "Cash and currency." And I doubt there's a single person here who would categorize their coins as "cash", as in "spending money", worth face value.
Current or not, the linked information does not appear to apply to intra-U.S. shipments.
1) Left click the link.
2) Left click the "X" in the upper right corner of the pop-up window that asks you to choose your location.
3) Left click "more details" under "can I send monetary units?".
4) Scroll through the document.
I cannot read Japanese. That said, it seems to be the rules that apply to 'FedEx Express' shipments with a nexus to Japan (e.g., international shipments departing Japan).
Edited for clarity.
Great news on that front, I primarily deal in large cents and am on ebay and other sites daily looking at the new ones that are listed, your coin is pretty unique, not sure what the odds are of it surfacing anytime soon but I will keep an eye out for it!!
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
I would let them know if they happen to recover item........
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
That is very much a current restriction. What it means in practical purposes is if you try to file a claim they will refuse to pay it.
http://www.fedex.com/services/terms/
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
The link you provided were the T&C in 2008.
Source: http://www.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/SG_TermsCond_US_2008.pdf
The 2022 T&C can be found here. The the part that pertains to domestic Express shipments of "collector's coins" can be found on Page #128. Specifically, in F.11, under "declared value". In short, "collector's coins" appear to be allowed, but are constrained by a max declared value of $1,000.
If I understood the OP's most recent update correctly, FedEx has already approved his claim.
i'm kinda late to the party for the approve claim part but wouldn't the actual value of the attributed coin if it is truly a high CC coin be much more than that? i ask because while getting the purchase cost back, i'm not sure i'd consider that a victory in this instance but i appreciate you sharing it all for posterity and learning to be sure.
keep those pics for sure in case it ever pops up in the CC down the road somewhere.
I'd be surprised if anyone would compensate you for the loss of a raw coin based on the value of a slabbed one.
I sent two raw Varieties in for grading, one was the 2nd known example of the 1957 d/d Washington Quarter and the second coin was a beautiful 1953 Proof Quarter with Engraved tail Feathers 2nd known example. I insured both coins for 1000 bucks and Both were stolen by a Post office worker in anaheim Ca.
I had pictures and my local dealer saw the coins before I sent them and wrote a letter to there grades when he saw them. After the third time they finally paid me the 1000. They caught the guy after he had already stole 7 packages and hid them in a wall and came back later.
Caught him with another members coins but never found mine. At the time both coins were worth a lot more than the money I received but I think I paid around 200 for them raw.
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
i am under the impression it was slabbed upon shipment to pcgs but the angle i was asking from was about properly insuring/shipping coins with significant premium to only be proven/realized after attribution. about the only service i would even consider reliable for such a scenario is usps registered and tbh, if the value was high enough, i'd just seek private insurance and discuss how they handle such a scenario with paying out a claim. it would basically take a numismatist familiar with value nuance.
i feel for people in this situation but we seem to keep a regular stream of them posting for the entire 10+ years i've been a member so i usually try to take the time to discuss outside usps/fedex/ups insurance alternatives. specialty services for various collectables. ya know?
it is kinda painful to keep reading these threads and i know if i found a possible #3 CC, even for a late-date, i'd for SURE do some auction archive results from well-known copper collections to get an estimated value and then for sure seek the cost of even just 1 year or perhaps 1 shipment cost (if such an option exists) so that i could at least take a big bite out of the potential value in the case of a loss like this. surely a lot more than $500. i gotta figure w/o doing some research for this example easily 5-10x for a near top CC coin even if it takes a while to place to a buyer.
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i don't know if it was you or not but i for sure recall someone(s) posting such a scenario(s) for coins that needed a reliable source for valuation pre-grading/attribution. it is a creative way to protect your downside. kudos and thanks for sharing that!
even if they were more than your insured amount, that is the kinda bite i am talking about taking out of the potential future value, knowing they are worth way more than paid but maybe not near the top dollar of what they could realize at auction.
nicely done.
You're right, it was already slabbed. Sorry about that. As far as recovering the premium prior to having the coin attributed, I would think you'd have to have some sort of written appraisal from someone who would be recognized with expertise in the area. I don't think you'd likely get far just on your word.
@LanceNewmanOCC the current record price for the 1845 N-15 is $450 for a PCGS AU58 in 2018. That is the CC3 coin. It sucks because I will never cherrypick another...but realistically the coin may have been worth $1000 to the right collector. I sent FedEx a screenshot of what I paid on Ebay plus a picture of my copy of the PCGS submission form and a picture of my receipt. This documentation led to a quick resolution of my claim. I guess I could have had Bob Grellman take a look at the coin and have him attribute it prior to PCGS attributing it. I don't know Bob and would never have asked. Either way I set the record price when I bought it for $460. I am happy to get what I paid back but sad that this special coin will reside in my collection only in digital form.
i THINK he still does attributions (for a fee) and if he does, i'm pretty sure he would have LOVED to have had that coin in-hand. fwiw. too late now of course but keep it in mind for the future.
also, keep in mind coinfacts pages for varieties. they do sometimes have sales results for cohens, sheldons, newcombs, overtons etc and a snapshot of the pcgs pop reports showing they recognize the variety and MAYBE even a price guide price for it?
unfortunately, in niche/specialty areas and combine that with the world we live in, it behooves one to do the stuff i mention above (and others) to optimize upside and protect downside.
there are a lot of threads that people start about how to handle lovely coins like the one you found and usually get some wonderful advice.
glad to hear you seem at peace with the situation. live to fight another day...
perhaps we should have a pinned thread: Found a valuable/rare coin?, here are the top 10-15 PRO tips PRIOR to doing anything with it.
what the heck good is it if we find super rare/high-grade valuable stuff if it is just going to come up missing often enough for it to be a PIA and i recall more than enough of these threads to consider it a PIA although from a percentage standpoint, it is an extremely rare occurrence.
in doing business with some high-end dealers, they actually have a sheet of to-dos before you ship them ANYTHING that adheres to their private numismatic insurance provider. (what the heck is that word?) i don't recall the specifics as its been a while but i do recall doing a box-in-a-box along with express next-day shipping along with some other steps. fwiw
Interestingly, I posted the first hit from a Google Search, and while the .pdf says 2008, the copyright on the page says 2022 and FedEx never took down the link!!
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Interesting. PCGS made a mistake on my submission this summer. They sent me a FedEx label to ship the coins back to them.
fwiw, as a tactic to throw people off, you can study the size/weight vs the cost and ship coins in boxes WAYYY too big for them but w/o the cost going up much or at all. just make sure the box is strong and taped up well so it can't be "accidentally" pushed in. perhaps a box in another box just in case.
You say that, but my Easter card to them resulted in a substantial upgrade on my Seated Liberty Dollar. Coincidence? I think not.
Check in hand from FedEx!! A super fast resolution to my claim. Sucks the coin is gone but I am out zero$$ and had little aggravation.