My package arrived at PCGS empty. Shipped with FedEx.
RLSnapper
Posts: 582 ✭✭✭✭✭
PCGS called me yesterday to let me know my package arrived empty. The woman who called me, Araceli,is one of the receiving managers. She reviewed the tape and even went through the trash..no coin.
I won't go into all the details but the kid behind the counter at the FedEx looked a little sketchy. The coin is a PCGS 1845 MS 62 cert. 37977446. I had insured the coin for $500 and filed a claim with FedEx so hopefully I will get my $$ back.
You are probably asking yourself why I was sending the coin, Express no less, to PCGS. I wanted the variety attribution. I was 99% sure I had cherrypicked an N-15 which according to the latest Grellman census only 2 are known in uncirculated! This would have been the third. So even if I get my $$ back I can't replace the coin. Damn it!
If anyone sees the coin for sale please let me know in this thread. Thanks.
Comments
Unless things have changed from a few years ago, FedEx doesn't insure coins.
Dang that sucks. I would suggest exclusively using USPS registered for PCGS submissions. It might be slow sometimes but it is secure.
PCGS should be able to flag the cert number as stolen.
Collector, occasional seller
Oh no! I agree with the above comment...USPS Registered every time and Over insure...
There is no benefit to over insuring, you will only be able to recover the value you can prove.
I only use USPS since a UPS employee stole 10 coins coming back from ANACS. Driver handed me an empty box. UPS didn’t care their employee took the coins.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
sorry to hear about the missing coin but my inquiry is more about the n15 you speak of.
for sure a scarce coin, images here and elsewhere MAY help? even if the numbnutz that may have stolen the coin doesn't know the intricate attribution information, if it pops up anywhere online or through a tpg, it will probably be noticed.
i'm just posting this below for posterity and future searching:
PCGS
1845 1c
MS 62
37977446 - https://www.pcgs.com/cert/37977746
Did the employee ask you what was in the package when you dropped it off for shipping?
FedEx does not allow coins or any kind of collectables to be shipped by their service.
https://www.fedex.com/en-jp/customer-support/faq/sending/what-goods-can-i-send/money-as-shipment.html
@RLSnapper
OP, it seems that the cert number you provided is incorrect. Why don’t you post a picture of the coin here? Perhaps another member might be able to weigh in on the variety attribution. Also, it would be beneficial to have an image of the stolen coin in case it turns up somewhere.
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This is certainly false. I have selected FedEx as the carrier for multiple coins I’ve won on GreatCollections. It may be true that numismatic items are not insurable by FedEx (I assume GC has their own private insurance), but shipping those items isn’t prohibited.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
@LanceNewmanOCC
Thanks for clearing that up ..the correct Cert. is 37977746. Thanks for pointing that out.
@DeplorableDan here is a link to the Ebay listing . https://www.ebay.com/itm/195345990075
The lump under the chin, the 5 lower than the other digits and the large lump on the bottom of the N in ONE are the tells.
@WQuarterFreddie PCGS has a special address for coin deliveries from FedEx. For FedEx Ground Shipments only:
PCGS
1610 E. St. Andrew Place Ste. 150
Santa Ana, CA 92705
I have used FedEx before and they will only insure collectibles up to $1000 dollars and yes I told them it was a collectible.
Sorry to hear that, @RLSnapper. I hope it's found.
Looks like an N-15 to me too. Pretty coin.
What a shame.
Lance.
How did you pack the package? Would it be possible the package broken during transit?
Last week PCGS sent me a FedEx 2 Day pre-paid label so I could return a coin($3.5k value) that was not TrueView imaged from a PCGS Express submission. It was the only one of the six coins that was not imaged. I put the PCGS slabbed coin in a cardboard holder, and then it went in the standard FedEx cardboard envelope, along with all the paperwork. Keep in mind the employee actually put all those items in the envelope as I watched intently. I watched the employee seal the package, and I was on my way. I dropped it off at FedEx at 4:50pm last Thursday, and it was received in Santa Ana Monday at noontime. Tuesday it was in the system. That was a positive experience, yet I had some doubts along the journey.
I hope your coin is found and returned to you. I can only imagine the pain you are going through.
The above link didn’t take me to the coverage exclusions, but I think I’ve seen them posted previously.
What bothers me is that “Collector’s items such as coins” are included on the FedEx site - see #11 below - as items that are limited to a maximum declared value of $1,000. And I think that would give most senders the idea that their coins are insured for up to that amount.
F. Shipments (packages or freight) containing all or part of the following items are limited to a maximum declared value of US$1,000:
1. Artwork, including any work created or developed by the application of skill, taste, or creative talent for sale, display, or collection. This includes, but is not limited
to, items (and their parts) such as paintings, drawings, vases, tapestries, limited- edition prints, fine art, statuary, sculpture, and collector’s items.
2. Film, photographic images (including photographic negatives), photographic chromes, and photographic slides.
3. Any commodity that by its inherent nature is particularly susceptible to damage or the market value of which is particularly variable or difficult to ascertain.
4. Antiques, or any commodity that exhibits the style or fashion of a past era and
whose history, age, or rarity contributes to its value. These items include, but are
not limited to, furniture, tableware, and glassware.
5. Glassware, including, but not limited to, signs, mirrors, ceramics, porcelains,
china, crystal, glass, framed glass, and any other commodity with similarly fragile
qualities.
6. Plasma screens.
7. Jewelry, including, but not limited to, costume jewelry, watches and their parts,
mount gems or stones (precious or semiprecious), industrial diamonds, and
jewelry made of precious metal.
8. Furs, including, but not limited to, fur clothing, fur-trimmed clothing, and fur pelts. 9. Precious metals, including, but not limited to, gold and silver bullion or dust,
precipitates, or platinum (except as an integral part of electronic machinery).
10. Stocks, bonds, cash letters, or cash equivalents, including, but not limited to, food stamps, postage stamps (not collectible), traveler’s checks, lottery tickets, money
orders, gift cards and gift certificates, prepaid calling cards (excluding those that
require a code for activation), bond coupons, and bearer bonds.
11. Collector’s items such as coins, stamps, sports cards, souvenirs, and memorabilia.
12. Guitars and other musical instruments that are more than 20 years old, and
customized or personalized musical instruments.
13. Scale models (including, but not limited to, architectural models and dollhouses)
and prototypes.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That is really awful that happened. I hope you recover your loss.
I have sent submissions via USPS no problems. I insure accordingly.
Couple months ago I had a $45 eBay coin purchase overdue. PCGS 69 ASE. This was when facility shutdown for a week. My item was put in the wrong POB. It ended up in mine a week later. Fortunately it was somebody honest. Scary
With all this that’s going on and current economic situation (stories here about ebay scammers, lost shipments, seemingly increase in lowlifes who will cheat and steal) I have pulled my big ticket items (lower margin anyway) from online store (just have them at shows) and increased my show presence. Really enjoy the shows.
If you're ever handed an obviously empty package or one that's very damaged, refuse it. Once you've accepted it, you're stuck. How can you then prove the coins weren't in the package? If you refuse it, the problem is then between the sender and shipper.
At the very least have the delivery person scan it as damaged. I don't know about UPS or FedEx, but I know that the USPS scanners have that option.
Hope you get your coin back OP. That sux! On another note,
I sold some SAE's a few months back. Went to Fedex. They asked what I was mailing and I told them. The guy at the counter specifically told me they will only insure coins up to $50. Wound up using usps registered.
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@RLSnapper... I hope you have filed a claim with Fedex already.... Move fast, be sure to give details about the individual who accepted the package. Keep us posted on developments. Cheers, RickO
Years ago when I had a mail coin list through Coin World, I was in a rush, it was after work, I just caught one of the mailmans rolling off one of those mail basket type carts from the truck and when I tossed my envelop of coins someone ordered, when it landed on top of the pile of other mail, there was a clang sound when it hit the pile and I'm certain the guy who was pushing that cart had heard the clang himself. Needless to say, that was one instance of mail that didn't reach it's destitution or is that, destination.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I provided the link from FedEx website. Believe what you want.🙄
@MFeld
Screen shot from FedEx website
So which part of their site rules - the above, or the portion I copied, previously, which includes “ Collector’s items such as coins, stamps, sports cards, souvenirs, and memorabilia”, which are “limited to a maximum declared value of US$1,000”?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Appears to be the rules for international shipments that originate in Japan.
Click the "more details" link
Very confusing on whether Fed Ex will cover any loss.
RLSnapper... hope the item somehow shows up, or have success in getting the value from 'insurance'.
One thing that stands out to me. We commonly get postings saying how horrible USPS is. The truth of the matter, every shipping service has losses, damages, etc., and some employees with 'sticky fingers'. For me, despite their flaws, USPS is the way to go in most cases. My Opinion anyways.
probably one of those somewhat murky areas that may change from time-to-time just like taxes in certain states on certain numis items but not others. imo, the whole thing is inconsistent at best and is in a state of flux and probably always will be.
this is one of those times to endorse private insurance, especially for active buyers/sellers/shippers.
The below is copied directly from the 185 page pdf titled:
SERVICE GUIDE
January 3, 2022
Updated August 22, 2022
Declared value and limits of liability (not insurance coverage)
A. The declared value of any package represents our maximum liability in connection
with a shipment of that package, including, but not limited to, any loss, damage,
delay, misdelivery, nondelivery, misinformation, any failure to provide information, or
misdelivery of information relating to the shipment. It is the shipper’s responsibility to
prove actual damages. Exposure to and risk of any loss in excess of the declared value
is assumed by the shipper. You may transfer this risk to an insurance carrier of your choice
through the purchase of an insurance policy. Contact an insurance agent or broker if you
desire insurance coverage. WE DO NOT PROVIDE INSURANCE COVERAGE OF ANY KIND.
They are clearly making a distinction between "liability" and "insurance". As well, I would note the last sentence in ALL CAPS.
Agreed and thank you. Unfortunately, I doubt that most occasional shippers are aware of that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The prohibition against shipping “collectible coins” is included in language pertaining to international shipments (copied below). I couldn’t find any language prohibiting domestic shipment of collectible coins.
“ Prohibited Items
You are prohibited from tendering the following items for shipment to any international destinations unless otherwise indicated, and you agree not to do so. (Additional restrictions may apply depending on destination. Various regulatory clearances in addition to customs clearance may be required for certain commodities, thereby extending the transit time.)”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
They are limitations on coins and insurance for any precious metals, however they do not refuse to ship coins. In fact, some private insurance companies even require FedEx delivery.
While I'm sure you're ignoring me still, rolling your eyes at someone quite accurately pointing out that GC ships coins via FedEx all the time reflects more on you than them. GC is also not the only auction house that uses FedEx.
Maybe you should email Stack's Bowers. From their website - emphasis added:
How will my auction winnings be shipped?
All winning lots will be shipped domestically via the United States Postal Service. Please note: A delivery confirmation shipment will be required for all orders. Delivery methods depend on the value of the shipment (for insurance purposes). All orders sent via Priority or Express require a signature confirmation. Please refer to the chart below to see how your winning lots will be shipped. Once your order has shipped, we will send you an email containing the order tracking information.
[edited for brevity]
If you would like your order shipped domestically via FedEx, please contact our customer service department at (800) 458-4646. Additional charges may apply.
The same thing happens with shipping through the post office. If one takes the time to look up what's in the DMM, many of the things that people believe are so turn out to actually not be.
FedEx delivery coins for sure. Both SB and HA used FedEx all the times. I used FedEx to send coins all the times. I am not sure about using FedEx to insure coins.
I have a package arriving from Sarasota tomorrow. I often receive coins via FedEx. However, I always use the USPS when I send and fully insure. Not a FedEx fan generally, they routinely miss expected delivery dates.
I have filed a claim already. It's funny because I asked to INSURE the package for $500. The receipt says declared value $500. When I filed the claim the drop down box had a choice for "EMPTY PACKAGE". This obviously happens more often than you might guess. I seem to think they charge more to ship items with higher declared value. This would imply you are "insuring" the enclosed item. I will know in 5 to 7 working days. Will update then.
@RLSnapper, all may not be lost. The fact that FedEx doesn't provide insurance for coins may not mean that you won't get reimbursed. Since you bought insurance, you presumably declared a value on the package.
We had our first ever FedEx loss earlier this year. The package was cut open while en route, and one of the stations between us and the destination contacted us about it. It was a $3k coin and we informed them of that. An "investigation" was done, but nothing came of it. They of course reimbursed us the shipping fee, but they also reimbursed us for $200. They said they could not reimburse for any more than that because we did not declare a value on the package (which our private insurance policy requests). Now, I don't know that if we had actually declared the full value if they would have given us the $3k, but the (understandable) excuse they used suggests we would have gotten more.
.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
FWIW, my take:
~ FedEx Express currently provides coverage against a coin loss, they just do not refer to it as "insurance".
~ The "declared value" is their maximum liability.
~ A shipper pays extra based on the "declared value".
~ Specific items are limited to a maximum "declared value" of $1,000.
All 'screenshots' are from page #128 of the "2022 FedEx Service Guide".
Edited.
I have used FedEx for many shipments, but I always use private insurance. That way I'm sure I'm covered and by not declaring extra value I'm not making it easy or highlighting my package for the thieves.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Don’t a lot of dealers ship their coins via fedex to shows? And ship coins from shows to customers?
Yes, they do.
Yes, this is very important and what I did with the UPS driver. As he walked away I felt the box and said "wait a minute, you delivered an empty box". I told him I was refusing delivery. All ended well and ANACS is a great company to work with.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
A FedEx article that explains the difference between "declared value" and "insurance".
Edited
I'm not sure I understand this. Aren't most coins pretty light? As in an ounce or two? Slabs add a bit but 1) you'd have to be pretty sensitive to distinguish and 2) a savvy thief will substitute trash of similar weight.
I'm concerned about this because I'm making my first submissions and want to do whatever I can to avoid theft.
When you ship coins to PCGS would they, potential thieves, just know that coins were inside via the PCGS address on the package?
GC, Stacks and others ship FedEx.
If it's a Mint product or something in packaging you might. In general, I agree with you. I had to pick up a coin at the PO because a signature was required. The package was so light, I swore it must be empty so I opened it at the desk. Coin was there. I guess I'm not that sensitive.
Recently NGC began shipping FedEx.
I think forum members might have established that FedEx has been (and still is) widely used in our industry.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.