1888 Indian Head Cent PCGS VF30 - Unattributed Snow-2 - Next Steps?

ducmir

Hello All. I recently cherry picked this unattributed PCGS VF30 1888 Indian head cent. Since it's already slabbed, I'm wondering if anyone can offer some guidance on what steps, if any, I should take to get it attributed?

1888 snow-2 Variety attribution points noted on this coin:
Date placement, OBV MPD in necklace, OBV RPD features, REV die crack at about 7:30-8:00 starting at edge, extending through two leaves into wreath

Sorry about the poor quality images, it was difficult to capture anything good on my phone.

lilolme

I am not an Indian cent or snow person so can't help there. But as to what to do on the variety a couple of thoughts.
First verify that pcgs (assuming that is whom you are wanting to send it to) does attribute that variety.

Unfortunately on their variety page they don't have anything listed for the Indian cent, which is incorrect because they have graded some varieties.
https://www.pcgs.com/varietyfaq

Can check on the coinfacts page and select the 'show related coins and varieties'. This will give a list of coinfacts pages for those varieties. PCGS may do more than the ones shown here.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1888-1c-bn/2166

Or can call and ask.

Once verified that pcgs does attribute the variety, then can do a re-holder with variety attribution. See the same page link above for the faq. Add information on the form for what you are submitting for and the pick-ups or other. I just say this since I have read where some are missed.

From FAQ:
What does the service cost?
The cost is $18 added to the level of service utilized. For example, if you chose a Regular service level ($32/coin) plus variety attribution, your grading fees would come to $50. Crossover submissions are acceptable. Show Service is not available. To add a variety to an already graded PCGS coin, the cost is $18 plus the corresponding reholder fee if the customer is not requesting a grading service level. The same fees apply to dealers adding this service to their orders.

Otherwise, could send it to Rick Snow / Eagle Eye. I do not know if he does attribution if not photo seal approved or not. Others should know.

https://www.indiancent.com//photoseal/

coinbuf

Does that variety bring a significant premium for a coin at that grade level? If not I'd put a sticker with the attribution on the current slab and call it a day.

davewesen

To make sure you keep grade, a variety submission, reholder, invoice fee and shipping both ways if you are a member. Some people send a few cherrypicks together to lower cost/coin for shipping/submission fee. Others crack out and send raw with another submission (only if you feel save the coin will grade again and not NG). Others sell as unattributed on slab and show closeups for attribution.

ducmir

Thanks for the info @lilolme and @davewesen. I'm not a PCGS member at this point. It sounds like all the associated fees, and possible risk of downgrade, take the re-submission option off the table for me

@coinbuf said:

Does that variety bring a significant premium for a coin at that grade level? If not I'd put a sticker with the attribution on the current slab and call it a day.

It is a desirable variety as far as I know. A lot of historic hype surrounding is/not an overdate. According to PCGS price guide ($460) and limited old auction history on PCGS($100-250), it is quite a significant markup. EagleEye has a VF35 listed for $600.

lilolme

@ducmir said:
Thanks for the info @lilolme and @davewesen. I'm not a PCGS member at this point. It sounds like all the associated fees, and possible risk of downgrade, take the re-submission option off the table for me

If you keep it in the pcgs holder there is no risk of a downgrade. Can do a re-holder or re-grade (cost more) with variety attribution. If not a member, then that would be more cost to sign up or find someone to submit for you. Shipping is not cheap either.

Picker1954

Won't Rick Snow attribute and Photoseal it without breaking it out?

Treashunt

@Picker1954 said:
Won't Rick Snow attribute and Photoseal it without breaking it out?

I believe so

291fifth

@coinbuf said:
Does that variety bring a significant premium for a coin at that grade level? If not I'd put a sticker with the attribution on the current slab and call it a day.

This is good advice. That variety has no "WOW" factor and is a well circulated example as well. If offered to me it is a variety I would pay no premium to own. How many collectors are there for a coin like that?
What are actual sales results (not asking prices or price guide numbers) for examples
of that variety.

ducmir

@291fifth said:
That variety has no "WOW" factor ... How many collectors are there for a coin like that?

I've only been collecting indian cent varieties since mid 2022, so I'm still new to this. The 88' S-2 is noted in the top 100 indian cent varieties, and from what I've read, it has a rich history within Indian cent collecting world.

I cherrypick because that's my budget level. The coin in this post, for example, I bought for $24.49. If it's only worthwhile to pursue specific 'wow' factor varieties in high-grade's, that probably prices someone like me out of the market in most cases. I enjoy the challenge of variety collecting, but part of that enjoyment is knowing (assuming) that my purchase, and overall collection, will have future value well beyond what I paid.

I just assumed that there is not much sales data on most varieties due to their rarity. Is there really no premium in most cases like this, IE, PCGS etc. variety valuations are wildly erroneous, at least in lower grades?

Your comment honestly makes me question if there is any value in learning about and collecting indian cent varieties at my level. Maybe it's a dose of reality that's good to get before I devote more time, effort, and money into the hobby?

mr1931S

Your comment honestly makes me question if there is any value in learning about and collecting indian cent varieties at my level. Maybe it's a dose of reality that's good to get before I devote more time, effort, and money into the hobby?

Nothing wrong with you getting into the varieties in your series of interest, the Indian cent. Keep in mind, though, that the market for varieties, no matter the series, that require high magnification to see can be very thin no matter what the price guide says the variety piece is worth.

Suggestion: Take your variety piece to a dealer other than the one you purchased it from. Tell the dealer what you discovered and ask his opinion what he thinks your piece is worth. I did this with a raw, extremely well worn (to PO 1?) 1872 IHC (which I still have). Dealer told me that the problem I would have is finding one of the 2 or 3 collectors of PO 1 Indian Cents to sell it to. Thin market, in other words. $20 for the coin, $50 for submission fee & postage. In $70 for a coin that IF I can get PO 1 designation for might bring $75 IF I can find a buyer. Not worth it.

291fifth

When you are getting into minor varieties it is important to determine just how real the market is for them. Just because you read something on the internet that claims such items are in demand does not mean that you should accept that as truth. Find examples of real, completed sales. If you can't find any this may tell you something about the real demand.

Cherrypickers love to find such varieties and they may be fun to search for BUT do you really want to start paying premiums for them? Don't bury yourself in minor varieties. Know the market.

Picker1954

@ducmir said:

@291fifth said:
That variety has no "WOW" factor ... How many collectors are there for a coin like that?

I've only been collecting indian cent varieties since mid 2022, so I'm still new to this. The 88' S-2 is noted in the top 100 indian cent varieties, and from what I've read, it has a rich history within Indian cent collecting world.

I cherrypick because that's my budget level. The coin in this post, for example, I bought for $24.49. If it's only worthwhile to pursue specific 'wow' factor varieties in high-grade's, that probably prices someone like me out of the market in most cases. I enjoy the challenge of variety collecting, but part of that enjoyment is knowing (assuming) that my purchase, and overall collection, will have future value well beyond what I paid.

I just assumed that there is not much sales data on most varieties due to their rarity. Is there really no premium in most cases like this, IE, PCGS etc. variety valuations are wildly erroneous, at least in lower grades?

Your comment honestly makes me question if there is any value in learning about and collecting indian cent varieties at my level. Maybe it's a dose of reality that's good to get before I devote more time, effort, and money into the hobby?

I started cherrypicking Indian Cent varieties over 25 years ago. At that time there were still many out there, especially unlisted ones. I have a few discovery coins in Rick's books, the best one being 1859 Snow-6, which I found at a FUN show and promptly sold it to Rick. It was always about the thrill of the hunt. If you enjoy it, keep doing it.