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'71-D/ D Dime in Mint Sets.
cladking
Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is a real toughie. I hope to get a more accurate estimate later on but it looks like it's less than in the 1 : 350 area.
Like all '71-D's they are well made and most still in the sets are tarnished now and not many sets are left. It's unlikely that any of these were found in BU rolls since there are so few BU rolls and it wasn't discovered until late.
It is a naked eye variety that makes it even more interesting;
http://varietyvista.com/25 What Are Die Varieties/1971DRPM001 dime.htm
Good luck.
Tempus fugit.
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Add to my search list... nice little RPM
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image from variety vista.
what a nice spread and tilt!
it kinda looks like a rpm jefferson nickel discovery i made.
Nice RPM... did not know of this one. I have a large jar of dimes, will make a note of this and put it in the jar - for a cold, snowy winter day search.
I bet @JoeyCoins was not checking for this one. Cheers, RickO
Very unusual second punch.
nice.
Thanks for posting
BHNC #203
Nice coin, but few Roosie collectors and even fewer Roosie error/variety collectors.
I tend to agree but this one is so scarce I can easily imagine the demand can be greater.
While I believe this coin is very highly desirable due to its being a naked eye variety it is "just" a Repunched Mint Mark which are less interesting to many collectors. It doesn't have the importance of something like the '68 DDO that also appears in mint sets and much more frequently (1.5%) or the '70-S sm dt cent (11%).
I believe a lot of this specific variety going forward are going to escape unnoticed. Many of the surviving sets are tarnished making it harder to see and still most sets are going to beginner collectors and neophytes. Collectors know to seek Gems and choice specimens in mint sets but they are less knowledgeable about varieties. Many of the coins in tarnished sets will end up in circulation where the odds of being identified as the D/ D are much lower. It would take so many years before being found the coin is likely to have been lost or destroyed. Even if clad coins get popular in the near future there simply can't be many found because they are so scarce.
I've always assumed that if the coins that circulate (clads) ever get collected then varieties will be highly sought. People, collectors, simply enjoy finding rare coins in pocket change and this one is probably even tougher than the '82- noMM dime in circulation.
We tend to predict the past and certainly to date there is a very highly limited demand for any coin made since 1964. Perhaps millions of people want a bicentennial quarter or a nice Eisenhower but there are plenty of these to go around and for the main part always will be. But scarce coins always have a potential to become highly sought and prized. Being scarce and prized means that there is competition for specimens.
I really like the look of this coin and will be scanning every '71-D going forward; especially mint set coins.
Were you first? I can't think of any similar RPM's made since the '50's. varieties are being less frequently made with each passing decade though mintages tend to be similar.
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what do you mean first?
here are the images. when i said similar, i meant noticeably an rpm and heavily tilted.
63-d d/d rpm2
I found a nice DDO from a 1960's proof set.
Book value said $400 so it got slabbed.
In the end it sold for about slab fees.
Problem was an unfortunate spot on the DDO of all places.
You have to be patient and/or collect these for bragging rights.
I was neither patient nor tolerant of the flaw.
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Nice find. Obvious one.
Didn't even know about these, thanks!
One thing? I'm very surprised PCGS doesn't recognize it in their price guides?
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It is a nice one.
Maybe it can be added in the future.
One nice thing about the huge mintages of the modern mint sets is that even after the vast majority no longer exist there will still be enough to find a few of the varieties. While mint set varieties tend toward common it's almost impossible to lay your hands on any substantial quantities. These sets were very widely distributed. I've never seen more than three rolls of the '70-S sm dt cent, for instance. Someone had to accumulate nearly 1500 sets to do this and at the time the sets were $20 and the sm dt was only $2.50
Another variety that I never heard of until now. I think that most coin roll hunters have never heard of it and never looked for it. I will keep it in mind if I ever search dimes again. Thanks for the info. I am relatively sure that there are more out there somewhere.
This coin is so scarce I can't help but wonder if the die was removed from service after striking no more that a couple hundred coins. Most mint set dies were used for about 30,000 strikes and then reused to make circulation issues but it has not been reported in circulation and there certainly are no 30,000 in mint sets.
In those days almost nobody was looking at clad dimes and fewer were saving any rolls but that it wasn't reported is probably telling. Today, of course, it has become a moot question because there are so few '71-D dime rolls there would be no D/ D in them even if it were common.
I think it escaped under everyone's radar because RPM's don't get as much attention and it is so very scarce.
Just picked these up yesterday so thanks for the heads up.
Will check tonight.
I don't think the number of FDR dime collectors is low. It's the number who will spend "meaningful" amounts on the series.
It's another coin for CRH. It's not a coin that is likely to ever be worth any meaningful premium unless it is added to registry sets, coin albums, or references like the Red Book.
Add me to the list of those who did not know the variety exists and will now be keeping an eye out for it. Finding an example would be such a thrill. This should be featured in some specialized catalog or reference book for Roosevelt dimes, perhaps a mention in the Mega Red Book. I'd make a spot for it in an album if someone asked me to.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer, see my portfolio here: (http://www.donahuenumismatics.com/).
You're probably aware of the '68 DDO dime which is one of my favorite modern varieties and more likely in one set than the D/D is in six.
I like it because the PUP is in the date.
Good luck.
I don't disagree but will point out that the average age of Roosie collectors is much lower than the average age of Morgan dollar collectors. And this goes many times over for the average age of clad Roosie collectors.
These collectors for the main part simply don't have "meaningful" amounts of money to spend for a single coin but this won't always be true. If any collector wants a complete set of Roosies he already has to contend with the 1975 no mint mark proof which sells for over $100,000.00
The D/D may never even be worth as much as a high grade '82-P with FB or other high end Roosies but odds are demand will increase no matter the price. The real question and most important question is how many of these exist.
I have a few more rolls to check and will try to remember to report back. It might be a while. I'll sure remember if I find one.
I agree and would like to see all the important and easily seen mint set varieties added. I would include all major varieties (there are several others) for moderns because the typical modern (a 1965 dime in VG scratched up and cull) is so uninteresting and uncollectible. Price guides make collecting possible and therefore it would seem encouraging it is a legitimate goal.
Of course there's the problem with price discovery in anything so lightly collected as clad coins. How do you price this D/D when the supply can't even be accurately estimated yet (a sufficient sample size is required) and so few collectors even know it exists?
What you continue to overlook or ignore is that most FDR dime collectors don't collect this series as their primary interest because they actually prefer it. It's a financial limitation and while this is correlated to age, there is no evidence that if current collectors had bigger coin budgets, that hardly any of them would spend a lot more on this series.
I have pointed this out before using the Heritage archive data. Look at the sales distribution by price range and it will be obvious. The preference for this series collapses at higher price points.
Recently, I performed another analysis of the Heritage data, within the last six months. The segmentation is judgmental, but the results are going to be the same no matter how you slice the data.
Between $200 and $500 which is certainly above the budget of the overwhelming percentage of FDR dime collectors but still moderate "collector budget" by US standards, clad dimes ranked 83rd out of 84. Total series = 113 but 29 did not have any sales below $500.
Below $200, the ranking will be better to noticeably better (depending upon the stratification) but I didn't bother with it as this amount isn't representative, as too m any coins and series can't be bought at these prices. At low enough price points, I'd also have to use another source, maybe GC.
I'll be checking mine soon.
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I wasn't aware of it and didn't have time last night but... I obviously need to study more before digging any further. I've mostly relied only on what PCGS recognizes as I'm typically looking for grades - mentioned earlier.
It simply doesn't matter why someone does what he does; his actions still affect the world around him and collecting clad Roosies diminishes the supply of the coins in his collection and increases demand of the coins he'll buy. We've been through the many reasons people collect coins but it all comes down to their belief that it is a worthwhile activity and the existence of rarities normally will make more collectors believe it is worthwhile, not fewer.
This can certainly be interpreted to mean that Roosies have exceptional room to grow.
A very nice set of clad Roosies can be put together for less than $25 with the cost of the folders. There are still nice collectible dimes in circulation even though the older ones are getting very difficult to find.
I simply can't imagine how being available at low cost can possibly be considered a negative to their collectability. Even the varieties and rarities might be found. Since they are still being made even ultrahigh grade can be found. Where is the negative?
Good luck. I'd be very interested in the results and the sample size.
That's one way to look at it but certainly not even close to the most believable one. Collectors do not collect in a vacuum.
Yes, I haven't ever disputed this in our post exchanges.
I never claimed it was a negative.
This is different than expecting someone to pay more than any "noticeable" premium to FV (or the date/MM generally) for what can only be described as an obscure die variety. The only way it isn't going to remain obscure is if it's included in registry sets, coin folders, and price guides like the Red Book.
Mint sets are the place to find high grades. The coins were struck at lower speeds under higher pressure by new dies. Clads are quite scarce in rolls anyway and most were very poorly struck by tired worn dies.
I'm beginning to suspect that they aren't the place to find most FB's however. The prices and pops of FB's are not very closely correlated to their incidence in the sets. Some scarce ones in sets are low priced and some common ones are high priced. Of course most dates are quite scarce in sets.
These sets sure aren't going to be around much longer. I believe even with their numbers are so low that the number being destroyed is hardly affected. Of course these new higher prices will save some of them since rejects can be sold onto the market unless they are too badly tarnished as so many are. Nice pristine coins even in lower grades are experiencing more demand especially with the dollars and halfs so sets sold back to the market just get a short reprieve.
Indeed. A few individual might be drawn to the dimes just because they are so far off the beaten path. They really aren't a bad place to start for young people with strong eyes.
These are tough enough that no owner is going to let one go at face value. I'd spend one before I'd sell it for even $10. I'd let some lucky collector find it in circulation.
Obviously you're right that being scarce does not automatically create demand and the D/D is obscure. This means that finding a serious buyer would be difficult.
Roosies are still US coins and there are still many collectors for US coins. "Rare" US coins are always going to have some demand. It's not my contention people should seek these for profit but rather because they are interesting and fun. I've already found a nice Gem and I'm having fun. I'll have just as much fun checking more '71-D's whether I find another or not.
It's very addicting and fun to find these gems in mint sets. Here is a recent find headed to PCGS soon and then another one that just got back.
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Little time now.
Wow!
I doubt most collectors understand you could look through 1,000 rolls of BU quarters in 1973 and not find a nicer example. Of course very few were looking at all and today there are probably not even 1000 rolls of BU '73-D quarters in existence. But diligence and enough sets to check can turn these up along with other Gems and varieties.
Most other dates of this era the coin would need a soak in alcohol just to tell if it were a keeper or not.
@cladking Am I imagining this or do higher grade/luster type coins tone better?
When shopping these online the obvious cartwheel lighting is the first thing to look for. Taking it a step further, these higher end coins are easy to spot looking for either the color or the fine luster/proof-like shadowing around the date and Liberty.
It's nice if there is more than one pic and from a different angle but you can still define the finer shadowing from one.
I agree.
Yes and no. Higher grades are more likely to tone from the mid-'70's sets But when they tarnish as do '71, '74 to '79 sets do they are more likely to be ruined. Of course there is a fine line often between tarnish and toning even when talking about mint set haze. The real problem is with all clad PL. These are much more likely to be ruined by the tarnish/ hazing.
Roosevelt Dimes are the runt of the silver series too.
With the Mercury Dime being so beautiful, why would someone who's interested in Dimes start with Roosies. Also there's never ending Quarter programs.
I'm a big fan of the mercs too and once had a pretty nice collection. It wasn't worth a lot but I got most of the coins in circulation and did a lot of work looking for them and putting it together so it was a source of pride. They make a beautiful set,
Today Roosies are available in circulation and the work to make a complete set with attractive coins is significant. They make a great reference set to look for varieties and you'll learn a lot putting one together. While they aren't silver or great art they still are very representative of their time and are still historic and interesting. Where a nice merc set will cost 6 or 8 hundred dollars a nice clad Roosie set is less than $25 and the coins will grade much higher than the mercs. If you must have silver the older dimes are just as collectible though they will need to be purchased. A very nice VF to Unc set of silvers can be done for little more $100 and an Unc set for less than $200. Clads Uncs can mostly be had at less than a dollar each and are far scarcer than the silvers. Gems abound and can often be purchased for the same price as MS-60's.
Clads Uncs can mostly be had at less than a dollar each and are far scarcer than the silvers. Gems abound and can often be purchased for the same price as MS-60's.
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Not scarcer than those dated prior to around 1934, not even close.
I wonder if DIMEMAN knows about the 71-D/D.
Unfortunately he got banned and I, for one, miss him.
Pete
Yes, quite true. A few are scarcer than a few of the pre-'34 issues but as a rule they are not. Most are at least five or ten times more common.
But every year fewer than 1% of the old uncs are lost or degraded. And every year as many as 5% of the newer Uncs are lost or degraded. Even the scarcest late date Uncs have a high attrition. 1982-P dimes for instance tend to spot in the rolls. These even get taken into coin shops to be sold by heirs and the dealer might not recognize their scarcity so they end up in the cash register.
Right now today only a few are scarcer but this probably won't be true in just a few years if collectors continue to ignore them. The prices are just so low that sellers often will just haul the coins to the bank rather than expend the time, effort, and expense of selling them. Only about two million of most dates were saved and most of these coins are now in circulation because of 67 years of neglect and consumption that have caused the high attrition rates.
Until the attrition rates come down it's very difficult to say just how scarce these will be. Until people start paying attention the attrition will remain high.
I believe the existence of unknown scarcities like the D/ D dime will help focus more attention on these coins and possibly end the destruction.
I believe all clad dimes are an R-1 with 1250+ eligible for an MS-66, now and later. But I don't think the actual scarcity will be known even later because it's not worth the expense of submitting this many. If the counts ever approached this number, the price will be less than the grading fee.
No. MS-66 is hardly rare for most of these but you might be very surprised how hard some are to locate slabbed or raw. Even "common" 66's can be difficult because they are 'out of the money so don't get sent in. Nobody will intentionally submit a '71-D in 66 so the population and the availability are artificially low. At the same time though locating a raw specimen in this grade is difficult because there are so few mint sets surviving and almost every '71-D dime in the sets is tarnished. Frequently they are so bad you can't tell if it's a Gem or not. Last year you could buy "50" of sets, clean all the dimes, then spend the rest of the coins and you net cost for the "2" MS-66 dimes would be less than $50; much less if you could get the sets wholesale. But the prices are sharply higher and the sets are even harder to find. The cost is far far higher to find your own.
But there are scarce dimes in 66 as well. If you want a well made and pristine '82-P you probably won't find one at all. Most slabbed coins are pretty with booming luster but they are mostly poorly struck and often by worn dies. Go out and buy a few hundred original souvenir sets and privately made sets and you'll find a few probably but original sets of these are becoming theoretical due to cherry picking. The cost is upward of $50 each!!!! Only about 150,000 of these were ever saved and fewer than 1% were choice Gem. The attrition even on choice Gem coins is very high because they haven't all been identified and protected. Every year since 1982 between 2 and 4 % of these have been lost or degraded. It's lower today.
People are always asking me if I have such coins for sale and typically the answer is "No". Sure there were a few dates I was "lucky" with but despite intensive searching I found only a couple well made pristine '82-P's in 66. These are out of the money as well so I have no interest in slabbing or selling them so they just go back into the safety deposit boxes for my family to dispose of. In a couple years I'll probably start slabbing coins again but it won't include ANYTHING out of the money.
Finding Gems back in the day was luck of the draw. Almost all the coins were awful so you just kept looking until you found something. When you found something sometimes it would be a "rare" date but usually it would turn out to be a very common date. Fewer than one coin in a couple hundred made for circulation was nice and this varied greatly from year to year, denomination to denomination, and mint to mint. Common coins are often seen but rare coins by definition are seldom seen. There most assuredly are not 1250 nice well made '82-P, '69-(P), or '71-(P) dimes. There are several other tough dates as well. Most of them are still out of the money.
Every year that goes by without people slabbing the coins the attrition will remain very high. Slabbing protects the coins in various ways. No slabbed MS-67+ '82-P dime will ever be rolled and taken to the bank. But a raw 66 could accidently be spent, lost, or degraded. It's more likely to spot or tarnish or be sold at an auction for less than a dime. It's more likely to be spent by heirs or sold to a coin dealer and placed in the cash register. This is why current populations are largely irrelevant; very few coins have been slabbed because there is almost no demand. There is only enough demand to justify pops of "30" or "50" with moderns. Every year demand increases and more coins get slabbed. Maybe there will even be enough demand to get a few D/ D's slabbed.
I remember when 2,000,000 '50-D nickel were each considered significant rarities and today I'm told 5 D/D dimes will flood the market!!!! I think we'll see the pendulum start swinging back the other way before so very much longer.
This is only due to the low price, not because of any actual scarcity. It's equally true of most other low-priced coins too. Nothing unusual about it.
234 MS-66 plus 40 MS-67 graded by NGC and PCGS as of now, minus an unknown number of duplicates which is almost certainly very low. That's not even close to a low number, especially given the value which for the MS-66 is probably about the same or less than the cost of grading.
There is no pendulum. 1950-D nickel has no relevance to this thread. It was speculation due to a communication limitation where speculators presumably thought the coin was scarce when it wasn't. That's never going to happen with any US circulating coin again as a date/MM. I remember it with the Wisconsin SQ too but that didn't last either.
@cladking This one came from a souvenir set. And I found a better one right after this order shipped.
It will be interesting to see how the second one grades, same typical for the year dull luster but a heavier strike.
MS66FB
I like the coin a lot and it is very clean. I've seen only a very very few that I believe are clearly superior based on the photo. I've looked at 1000's of them since 1982.
Even though the coin is reasonably well struck it has severe strike deficiencies. This is simply typical of all 1982 Philly coins so it is given a pass. I would grade it a 65+ but then many of the MS-67's I would grade MS-64.
FB is a little tough on these.
Agree which is why I sent it in, basically a test run after being hyper focused on Lincoln’s my first few years.
Funnily, I recently found a 75 D Lincoln that should be the weight of my next order. Yeah I’m pretty stoked about that one, it has that cameo texture on the devices but original copper color.
For years I thought it was Truman on the dime.
Was so uninspired with the series I never put 2+2 together.
Mint and proof sets are my favorite part of the hobby.
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Unless something changes in the series, there will never be much demand. I enjoy them for what they are and will still build sets of them. They are fun to build. I usually find mint set singles that have been tossed in a box. The 82 and 83 issues will always be tough. So will the 1965-67 using non-sms issues.
Mint and proof sets sets are a hoot and might be completely gone before the hobby discovers them. I collected moderns from '72 to '75 and while was aware of proof sets I had never seen a mint set and was not aware of their existence. These are way off everyone's radar.
Then I collected mint sets for another year before discovering they are far better on quality than coins made for circulation. They are struck by new dies at higher pressure and lower speeds and then more carefully handled (for the main part).
Collectors are beginning to discover these coins but it's mostly because most moderns simply weren't saved as singles, rolls, or bags. If it's not in the mint and proof sets it's in circulation or has been destroyed. The only source is mint sets for BU coins and this is the only reason they are being bought.
I agree except that I believe it is a given something will change and it might have already started. Either the dime will be redesigned or it will be eliminated in favor of lighter weight nickels. There are a great number of dates and mint marks out there now days and collectors are starting to notice. Wholesalers are not finding the coins to be readily available in retail friendly condition. Catalogers are starting to take some notice of moderns.
This denomination could be affected by America's upcoming "birthday" in 2026.
It might be a while yet before something substantial changes but it will come in time.