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PCGS certified Denver Sac $1 & So Carolina Quarter MULE to be auctioned

ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2022 7:34PM

    @ErrorsOnCoins

    Yes amazing!

    A unique mule surfacing after 2 decades that was unknown to the numismatic community. It appears to be another intentional error coin.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will say…I like it much better in the trueview than the heritage photos. Very cool error nonetheless

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice, can anyone guess how much it will go for? I would guess 150 to 200k

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    DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    @ErrorsOnCoins

    Yes amazing!

    A unique mule surfacing after 2 decades that was unknown to the numismatic community. It appears to be another intentional error coin.

    Nice little retirement plan, smuggle some major mint errors out.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The unique Sac $ muled with the Presidential Rev sold for $84k in Heritage.

    This unique Sac $ muled with the So Carolina Quarter could bring up to $200k
    in my opinion.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2022 8:03PM

    @DelawareDoons said:

    “Nice little retirement plan, smuggle some major mint errors out.”

    Below is a very interesting and informative article and video on intentional error coins, and why the U.S. Mint does not attempt to recover error coins that are decades old!

    https://minterrornews.com/news-11-3-22-exotic-and-intentional-us-error-coins-in-the-marketplace.html

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    The unique Sac $ muled with the Presidential Rev sold for $84k in Heritage.

    This unique Sac $ muled with the So Carolina Quarter could bring up to $200k
    in my opinion.

    So my guess is not off too much. We will see how high it can go. Maybe sky is the limit.

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2022 8:40PM

    @jt88 - your guess was the perfect range.

    PS:

    No disrespect to the world famous Sac/Quarter Mule with appx 20 known.
    But at that price level I would pick this one!

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If this fantasy coins can get 105k, I would go for the sac with so Carolina for 150k to 200k. It looks like real mint error not intentional made fantasy error.

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2022 8:44AM

    @jt88

    There are:

    Accidental error coins that get out accidentally…

    Accidental error coins that are intentionally taken out…

    Intentional error coins made to appear accidental that are taken out…

    Intentional error coins made deliberately as fantasy errors and taken out…

    Obviously the Ike Dollar Clover that sold for $105k in the Heritage Auction wasn’t accidental😉

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This thread makes me want to open the two rolls of Sacagawea 2000 dollars I purchased at issue time. I am reasonably certain there are no errors in them, but - it could happen. Maybe I will open them.... soon, someday... Cheers, RickO

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    @jt88

    There are:

    Accidental error coins that get out accidentally…

    Accidental error cons that are intentionally taken out…

    Intentional error coins made to appear accidental that are taken out…

    Intentional error coins made deliberately as fantasy errors and taken out…

    Obviously the Ike Dollar Clover that sold for $105k in the Heritage Auction wasn’t accidental😉

    A good summary. I prefer the first kind.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Byers said:
    @jt88

    There are:

    Accidental error coins that get out accidentally…

    Accidental error cons that are intentionally taken out…

    Intentional error coins made to appear accidental that are taken out…

    Intentional error coins made deliberately as fantasy errors and taken out…

    Obviously the Ike Dollar Clover that sold for $105k in the Heritage Auction wasn’t accidental😉

    A good summary. I prefer the first kind.

    How is possible to tell the difference in the first two examples of accidental errors?

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2022 9:15AM

    @ErrorsOnCoins

    That’s a great question and here is the answer:

    The more exotic, unusual and dramatic the error is, the greater chance that it was taken out.

    Perfect example to illustrate my point are bonded cluster caps.

    But even in this case, the answer is complicated.

    Some bonded cluster caps possibly were discovered in huge ballistic bags that the U.S. Mint used to transport coins.

    Other bonded cluster caps were deliberately taken out.

    But my point is, these were accidental malfuctions during production.

    The bonded cluster caps are not made intentionally.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2022 9:15AM

    @ErrorsOnCoins

    Sometimes it’s virtually impossible to determine how they were produced or released. These are 2 of my favorites that I handled that are difficult to know:


    Or

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    @ErrorsOnCoins

    That’s a great question and here is the answer:

    The more exotic, unusual and dramatic the error is, the greater chance that it was taken out.

    Perfect example to illustrate my point are bonded cluster caps.

    But even in this case, the answer is complicated.

    Some bonded cluster caps possibly were discovered in huge ballistic bags that the U.S. Mint used to transport coins.

    Other bonded cluster caps were deliberately taken out.

    But my point is, these were accidental malfuctions during production.

    The bonded cluster caps are not made intentionally.

    Well yes that makes sense on the bonded clusters.

    I did hear a story that a mint director had a bonded cluster on on his desk which was later sold to a dealer.

    I also did hear about the fork lift oil pan story. Do you know if those were accidental or intentional errors being smuggled out?

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins

    When I was 17 years old I went on an arranged floor tour of the Denver Mint. It had been arranged for the Young Numismatists of the ANA.

    I was literally feet away from the presses and saw some error coins on the floor.

    I will never ever forget this experience.

    Then we sat in the office of the Deputy Superintendent of the Denver Mint. A huge bonded cluster cap was on the desk. I was allowed to hold it and examine it. Amazing.

    Regarding the oil pans…these proof error coins are so dramatic and exotic that they were intentionally created.

    Technicians hand feed the planchets into the press, so highly unlikely that these occurred accidentally.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Byers said:
    @jt88

    There are:

    Accidental error coins that get out accidentally…

    Accidental error cons that are intentionally taken out…

    Intentional error coins made to appear accidental that are taken out…

    Intentional error coins made deliberately as fantasy errors and taken out…

    Obviously the Ike Dollar Clover that sold for $105k in the Heritage Auction wasn’t accidental😉

    A good summary. I prefer the first kind.

    How is possible to tell the difference in the first two examples of accidental errors?

    It isn't, and sometimes you must guess and/or consider the laws of probability.

    I remember when the first coin on a nail came out. I remembered that my mentor in error coins, Ed Fleischmann, once told me that when he was getting a VIP floor tour of one of the U.S. Mints he happened to see a nail sitting on a flat part of the press. He asked the press operator "What is that nail for?" and the guy showed him the feed tube on the press. It had a slot in it so that if a planchet got hung up in the tube he could stick the nail in the slot and clear the jam. May or may not have been S O SP, but it worked.

    So, one strike on one nail was plausible, and I gave the first one the benefit of the doubt. Then more came out, much like the first one. My plausibility detector dropped to zero.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2022 1:22PM

    And then fakes appeared:

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    This thread makes me want to open the two rolls of Sacagawea 2000 dollars I purchased at issue time. I am reasonably certain there are no errors in them, but - it could happen. Maybe I will open them.... soon, someday... Cheers, RickO

    You haven't opened them yet? I keep telling you, there could be an MS68 Speared Eagle in there. 😉

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OMG, Mike was that offered to you?

    Counterfeiters are so stupid offering sets instead of single examples distributed over a long period of time.

    Greed gives it away.

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins

    Whether offered in batches or singly, the fake dies create mushy strikes among other telltale signs…

    There are also some fakes on U.S. type coins (Barber Dimes, Seated Halves etc).

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2022 5:57PM

    Where there's one there can be 20 by using examples from the 3 die pairs used to strike 2000 Philly Mule $/25c.
    These well-known & famous ones get offered up for auction at one a year, year after year.
    How many were found in rolls, one or two ? The rest got daylighted in auctions surviving in ms66 and 65& tend to go to strong hands collections.

    Philly was on cutting edge of Minted Shenanigans in 2000P. Some fantastic over the top stuff exists from that date & 1999 and 2001 and a bit in 2002. That Philly Mint Cop's lunch pail left heavier than it arrived...

    This first example daylighted Denver:

    Buck Quarter Mule,

    could maybe worst condition-wise from the mini hoard I'd guess exists.
    Guessing further, it was made by an inspired Denver Employee by what was published in the numismatic publications way back in 2000.

    A Very Fun Certified Mint Error, unique at the moment, I will guess 160k plus the fees and buyers' state tax. So if winner is from Colorado it's $198,000 out the door, cash, to your door, delivered.

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Wow that's an amazing mule.

    Here's the TruView ...

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    goldengolden Posts: 9,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They let intentional errors like this sell and confiscate 1933 $20's. Really!

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the 1933 $20 was struck 15% off-center, and certified as a ‘mint error’ …

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2022 6:33PM

    They also confiscate 1964D PEACE, 1974 & 1974D aluminum Cents.

    I will guess 2000P 24k Moon Bucks would get confiscated too.

    If 1964D Morgan $ pop up, they too will get confiscated.

    If coin issues are not authorized for official release, then they are illegal to buy sell and trade.

    Everything else coinage wise you can feel free to buy sell and trade, thus legally own.

    @golden said:
    They let intentional errors like this sell and confiscate 1933 $20's. Really!

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    @ErrorsOnCoins

    That’s a great question and here is the answer:

    The more exotic, unusual and dramatic the error is, the greater chance that it was taken out.

    Perfect example to illustrate my point are bonded cluster caps.

    But even in this case, the answer is complicated.

    Some bonded cluster caps possibly were discovered in huge ballistic bags that the U.S. Mint used to transport coins.

    Other bonded cluster caps were deliberately taken out.

    But my point is, these were accidental malfuctions during production.

    The bonded cluster caps are not made intentionally.

    I wonder if the discovery story of any of the clusters are known?

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2022 7:04PM

    @Byers said:
    And then fakes appeared:

    If there's no denomination, is it illegal?

    Would the Secret Service go after these?

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins

    The earliest bonded U.S. coin cluster that I am aware of was a 5-6 coin 1964 Lincoln Cent group.

    There are a few in the 70’s and 80’s.

    It wasn’t until 1998 that more appeared.

    1999 is the date where clusters of Cents, Nickels and Dimes were known.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    This thread makes me want to open the two rolls of Sacagawea 2000 dollars I purchased at issue time. I am reasonably certain there are no errors in them, but - it could happen. Maybe I will open them.... soon, someday... Cheers, RickO

    Open them up. There may be some toners (tarnish) in there. :D

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2022 6:25PM

    WOW, the coins just sold for $66,000 well off estimated price. Lucky buyer.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:
    WOW, the coins just sold for $66,000 well off estimated price. Lucky buyer.

    Someone got an amazing deal! Wonder if it will be flipped?

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    jt88jt88 Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @jt88 said:
    WOW, the coins just sold for $66,000 well off estimated price. Lucky buyer.

    Someone got an amazing deal! Wonder if it will be flipped?

    I am pretty sure it will show up again soon.

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    yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Being from South Carolina... it is really cool.

    For $66K, I would rather have two or three watercolors from Alice Ravenel Huger Smith.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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