Evaluating the Centering of Key Modern Cards (1980-)

DeutscherGeist

Dear Card Crusaders,

We all heard of the phrase, buy the card, not the slab. Well, there is truth in that, but it's not an absolute. Waiting for that right PSA 10 of a player (the perfect 50-50-50-50 centering of the front and back) could take awhile and it would be prudent to get a reasonably priced PSA 10 of the desired card with reasonable personal appeal in the meantime. That card can be going up in value as you search. In the end the PSA 10 card that is slightly off perfect centering will sell for about the same as the PSA 10 card that one thinks is perfectly centered. Not everyone will see that card as a perfectly centered PSA 10 or be any more excited about it, let alone, pay a premium.

I should have bought the following card when it was easy to get for $50-$75 as I could have upgraded later and sell the first card for about the same as buying the desired card with the right centering. I only wanted one for my personal collection. I kept hesitating buying one because the centering was just not right on the ones I was looking at. Now its a $500 card. So, I should have bought a PSA 10 of that card just a few years ago even with some slight centering issues.

I saw the card pictured below on eBay. I like the left/right centering, but the top/bottom is a turn off. It's not bad, but this is a modern card, so it's not like there are so few out there to choose from. Do you also see this as being off centered?

82FootballWaxMemorys

I agree with it being in tolerance. Although nowadays huge portion of the criteria for 10 of keys card is the submitting entity.

Buy the card not the flip applies to collectors, not so much to the Social Media crowd who I hope continues in droves to exit the hobby.

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This edit added since we have someone here manufacturing outrage or vendetta for reasons unknown :

Entities like 4SC for example get so many 10's for a reason. They they put in their expertise, time + effort and have the money to float expenses, the average person does not and probably cannot on consistent basis. I'm sure on many cards they select 10 as minimum accepted grade and pay the associated fees when a card falls short.

jordangretzkyfan

Agree that T/B centering is off. Keep holding out for the dead centered one.

JoeBanzai

That card would be fine with me. When a card is "perfect" side to side and a little bit towards the top, I don't mind it.

The only (minor) complaints about that card is the top of the "T" in Topps sticks up a bit making it look worse than it really is.

daltex

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I agree with it being in tolerance. Although nowadays huge portion of the criteria for 10 of keys card is the submitting entity.

Buy the card not the flip applies to collectors, not so much to the Social Media crowd who I hope continues in droves to exit the hobby.

I really don't understand how you continue not to get banned for your libelous statements. Not only are they libelous, they're libelous against our host, against the essential product of our host, and without a grain of supporting documentation, let alone evidence.

82FootballWaxMemorys

@daltex said:

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I agree with it being in tolerance. Although nowadays huge portion of the criteria for 10 of keys card is the submitting entity.

Buy the card not the flip applies to collectors, not so much to the Social Media crowd who I hope continues in droves to exit the hobby.

I really don't understand how you continue not to get banned for your libelous statements. Not only are they libelous, they're libelous against our host, against the essential product of our host, and without a grain of supporting documentation, let alone evidence.

Huh???

Entities like 4SC get so many 10's for a reason. They they put in their expertise, time + effort and have the money to float expenses, the average person does not and probably cannot on consistent basis. I'm sure on many cards they select 10 as minimum accepted grade and pay the associated fees when a card falls short.

daltex

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:

@daltex said:

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I agree with it being in tolerance. Although nowadays huge portion of the criteria for 10 of keys card is the submitting entity.

Buy the card not the flip applies to collectors, not so much to the Social Media crowd who I hope continues in droves to exit the hobby.

I really don't understand how you continue not to get banned for your libelous statements. Not only are they libelous, they're libelous against our host, against the essential product of our host, and without a grain of supporting documentation, let alone evidence.

Huh???

Entities like 4SC get so many 10's for a reason. They they put in their expertise, time + effort and have the money to float expenses, the average person does not and probably cannot on consistent basis. I'm sure on many cards they select 10 as minimum accepted grade and pay the associated fees when a card falls short.

It is nice to see you back down (way down) from what you strongly implied in the post I first quoted, and many other times here.

DeutscherGeist

I like the Strawberry card, but if I am going to pay around $500 for one right now, it better be centered 50-50-50-50 so I would feel good about it.

In any case, this next card is something that looks to be dead centered. Just wanted some other eyes looking at it too.

82FootballWaxMemorys

@daltex said:

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:

@daltex said:

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I agree with it being in tolerance. Although nowadays huge portion of the criteria for 10 of keys card is the submitting entity.

Buy the card not the flip applies to collectors, not so much to the Social Media crowd who I hope continues in droves to exit the hobby.

I really don't understand how you continue not to get banned for your libelous statements. Not only are they libelous, they're libelous against our host, against the essential product of our host, and without a grain of supporting documentation, let alone evidence.

Huh???

Entities like 4SC get so many 10's for a reason. They they put in their expertise, time + effort and have the money to float expenses, the average person does not and probably cannot on consistent basis. I'm sure on many cards they select 10 as minimum accepted grade and pay the associated fees when a card falls short.

It is nice to see you back down (way down) from what you strongly implied in the post I first quoted, and many other times here.

I merely spelled it out for those who seem to need deep rich context into every statement. I stand by my original post. Large submitting entities compared to a submitter with a single card have better chances at 10's - due to a number of factors.

JoeBanzai

@DeutscherGeist said:
I like the Strawberry card, but if I am going to pay around $500 for one right now, it better be centered 50-50-50-50 so I would feel good about it.

In any case, this next card is something that looks to be dead centered. Just wanted some other eyes looking at it too.

Maybe a little low?

secretstash

@daltex said:

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I agree with it being in tolerance. Although nowadays huge portion of the criteria for 10 of keys card is the submitting entity.

Buy the card not the flip applies to collectors, not so much to the Social Media crowd who I hope continues in droves to exit the hobby.

I really don't understand how you continue not to get banned for your libelous statements. Not only are they libelous, they're libelous against our host, against the essential product of our host, and without a grain of supporting documentation, let alone evidence.

Please tell me this a troll account??? Do you really believe PSA wants the countless pieces of evidence of card doctoring that had slipped past grading companies in the past (and current) to be submitted against them with 100% verifiable facts? They would never welcome detectives like BODA or others who would volunteer 1,000 hours of time to show them their research.

You still must be struggling with accepting reality...Are we in a recession or not??? LOL!

JoeBanzai

@secretstash said:

@daltex said:

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I agree with it being in tolerance. Although nowadays huge portion of the criteria for 10 of keys card is the submitting entity.

Buy the card not the flip applies to collectors, not so much to the Social Media crowd who I hope continues in droves to exit the hobby.

I really don't understand how you continue not to get banned for your libelous statements. Not only are they libelous, they're libelous against our host, against the essential product of our host, and without a grain of supporting documentation, let alone evidence.

Please tell me this a troll account??? Do you really believe PSA wants the countless pieces of evidence of card doctoring that had slipped past grading companies in the past (and current) to be submitted against them with 100% verifiable facts? They would never welcome detectives like BODA or others who would volunteer 1,000 hours of time to show them their research.

You still must be struggling with accepting reality...Are we in a recession or not??? LOL!

Ever worked in a factory? I have. Plenty of idiots get hired. No matter how much training you give an idiot, he's not going to perform the job correctly.

For the most part, grading companies do a pretty good job, but as you point out, cards have, and will continue to, "slip past" graders.

I for one would NEVER take a job looking at cards all day long, especially if you had a minute (or less) on each one. Sounds like a nightmare to me.

1948_Swell_Robinson

The top two corners on that card bother me more than the centering.

DeutscherGeist

JoeBanzai,

I can see why it can be perceived as a little low on the T/B on centering on the Schilling card. However, there is no defined border on the bottom, so its not straight forward. However, if we go by the letters on the bottom, there is equal spacing on T/B. The "borders" are wider on the T/B and not equal to the sides. I do see the borders on the L/R are thinner than the top, but that seems to be because there is more border space, T/B. If the top border matches the sides, the bottom "border" will appear to have too much space. Either way, it would still be symmetrical and eye appealing. I guess some would prefer the top border to match the sides and I can see how that is a good aesthetic look.

DeutscherGeist

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
The top two corners on that card bother me more than the centering.

Do you mean on the Strawberry card? It does look kind of touched. It may be the focus of the image. It's an otherwise clear scan of the card, but the corners may be slightly off focus.

1948_Swell_Robinson

@DeutscherGeist said:

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
The top two corners on that card bother me more than the centering.

Do you mean on the Strawberry card? It does look kind of touched. It may be the focus of the image. It's an otherwise clear scan of the card, but the corners may be slightly off focus.

Yes, the Strawberry card.

JoeBanzai

@DeutscherGeist said:
JoeBanzai,

I can see why it can be perceived as a little low on the T/B on centering on the Schilling card. However, there is no defined border on the bottom, so its not straight forward. However, if we go by the letters on the bottom, there is equal spacing on T/B. The "borders" are wider on the T/B and not equal to the sides. I do see the borders on the L/R are thinner than the top, but that seems to be because there is more border space, T/B. If the top border matches the sides, the bottom "border" will appear to have too much space. Either way, it would still be symmetrical and eye appealing. I guess some would prefer the top border to match the sides and I can see how that is a good aesthetic look.

Several Topps issues have a similar border (or lack thereof) 1963 and 1987 come to mind offhand. I always liked it when 3 of the borders matched and the undefined border looked good as well.

On 1987 this is not the case if you look at most of the 10's on eBay. Most of them are centered high (in my mind), although the eye appeal is better with them centered a tad high.

The Schilling card is a beautiful card, I think the centering is fine.

1951WheatiesPremium

I have had this one a while now…

Closer?

NGS428

Or just buy a 9... Room for error there...

daltex

@secretstash said:

@daltex said:

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I agree with it being in tolerance. Although nowadays huge portion of the criteria for 10 of keys card is the submitting entity.

Buy the card not the flip applies to collectors, not so much to the Social Media crowd who I hope continues in droves to exit the hobby.

I really don't understand how you continue not to get banned for your libelous statements. Not only are they libelous, they're libelous against our host, against the essential product of our host, and without a grain of supporting documentation, let alone evidence.

Please tell me this a troll account??? Do you really believe PSA wants the countless pieces of evidence of card doctoring that had slipped past grading companies in the past (and current) to be submitted against them with 100% verifiable facts? They would never welcome detectives like BODA or others who would volunteer 1,000 hours of time to show them their research.

You still must be struggling with accepting reality...Are we in a recession or not??? LOL!

No one is suggesting that PSA (or any TPG) is perfect. Even if it is 99.99% perfect, there are tens of thousands of mistakes out there. This should not be news to anyone. I don't know the percentage of correctness, but I'd suspect it to be between 99% and 99.5%, and I'm sure some of the mistakes are howlers.

What I do believe is that there is no way that PSA makes these "mistakes" on purpose or to favor particular submitters. As soon as certain PSA holders are considered unreliable, then the entire business is worthless.

Now if a certain submitter spends a lot of time screening his cards, has submitted a large number so he knows what a 10 in certain sets looks like, and asks that cards graded lower than 10 not be encapsulated so that he doesn't have to take the time to crack them out (and sell them raw?), then of course he'll get all 10s, and that applies to you and me as much as any big submitter.

I really don't think that anyone can reasonably infer that from @82FootballWaxMemorys original post.

Bottom line is that 100% of PSA's revenue is based on the perception of objectivity. I don't believe they'd do anything to risk that. Too many grading companies have relaxed their standards and not been able to recover their reputations.

DeutscherGeist

Joe Banzai,

I think the Schilling card is a real winner in this case. However, I do understand that there could be differences of preference regarding T/B borders especially in cases where one side is simply not well defined. The 1987 Topps also are difficult to evaluate and I would throw in 1984 as also not being so straight forward.

DeutscherGeist

NGS428,

That is a nice Strawberry PSA 9, the T/B and L/R are just slightly off. Some might think it's centered. I have learned that some people's perception of centering differ even though one would think it is quiet a discrete quality on a card.

DeutscherGeist

1951WheatiesPremium,

It's a nice card you have, but I see the L/R centering as just a touch off. T/B looks to be centered.

DeutscherGeist

I am now seeing the Schilling minor league card in a different light. The L/R centering is a bit off and I did not notice because of that right "guard rail" in the PSA case creating an optical illusion that the border is thinner than it initially appears. Its still a very nice card and well within tolerance of PSA 10, but I am going to pass on it.

I have ordered cards before that appeared dead centered, but after having them in hand, saw that it was just slightly off.