@Spivack said:
It's just staggering to me the level of ignorance required and displayed by all the "collectors" here that are too blind to see the completely obvious financial greed-based puppeteers behind the creation of the charade of CAC and this lame addition to third party grading. Why would PCGS promote and support CAC from square one? Helloooooo!!!
JA is a greasy used car salesman. A puppet. A front. Watch his interview by his buddy. He's got a tron of class....and it's all low.
This is all so freakin' stupid. Suckers unite!
That post certainly falls within the thread parameters of 'a lively discussion' and everyone is entitled to their opinion IMO.
My 1807 Draped Bust Half appears to have (in my opinion) only Fine surface preservation with outstanding eye appeal that perhaps bumps it up to a low VF20. Industry standards are important. CACGrading will only tarnish the public understanding of what a Plus + grade represents. Imagine a sport where one team is officiated differently than the others. You wouldn't accept that. As has been shared by others in this thread, deviation from Industry standards is inconsistent and misleading. Full disclosure, I like the look of the new CACGrading holder much more than the obtrusive CAC sticker that all too often hides important information on the label. We all have pet peeves.
FYI, I bought this coin raw on eBay and did not send it in CAC, so speculation and comparison to the PCGS Photograde are all I have to go on. I only submit a few coins a year to PCGS, so I'm here to learn, and PCGS has earned my trust.
@jackpine20 said:
My 1807 Draped Bust Half appears to have (in my opinion) only Fine surface preservation with outstanding eye appeal that perhaps bumps it up to a low VF20. Industry standards are important. CACGrading will only tarnish the public understanding of what a Plus + grade represents. Imagine a sport where one team is officiated differently than the others. You wouldn't accept that. As has been shared by others in this thread, deviation from Industry standards is inconsistent and misleading. Full disclosure, I like the look of the new CACGrading holder much more than the obtrusive CAC sticker that all too often hides important information on the label. We all have pet peeves.
FYI, I bought this coin raw on eBay and did not send it in CAC, so speculation and comparison to the PCGS Photograde are all I have to go on. I only submit a few coins a year to PCGS, so I'm here to learn, and PCGS has earned my trust.
Strong eye-appeal probably wouldn’t cause a Fine coin to be graded VF. Eye-appeal is far more likely to bump the grade of an uncirculated or Proof coin, rather than a heavily circulated one.
A CACG “+” graded coin will represent essentially the same quality to them that “+” coins currently represent to PCGS and NGC - a high end example for the grade.
You sound upset that CACG will have its own grading standards, but PCGS and NGC have each graded to their own (different) standards for decades. Have you been equally bothered by that?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@pmh1nic said:
How many folks that currently have PCGS registry sets would send the entire set to CAC for crossing over?
Does the status of CAC provide the motivation to those that own the top 100 rarest coins, currently in PCGS or NGC holders, to submit them to CAC for crossing over?
If CAC isn't counting on crossovers being a major part of their business where do the coins of any value (enough value to justify the cost of submission) come from that would support a third major grading service?
I understand CAC as a 2nd set of eyes verifying a TPG grade but I'm not seeing the value in starting a new service that is now in direct competition with PCGS and NGC.
I think a couple things will happen regarding cac adding value to the market. In my opinion, the way to play the cac slab game is to send them all the dreck (i.e. ugly toned unc grade Morgans, common grade franklins, coins that had previously been sent to cac which failed to sticker, etc) and hope they straight grade at any grade.
Think about how many dealers at shows either have the same stale slab inventory for months to years at a time. If those coins were green/gold cac stickered already, they would be easy sells. So you take that inventory, cac grade it, and it’s like getting a green sticker (i.e. straight grade) for everything.
I think pcgs & ngc cac stickered coins are going to increase significantly in value. Sending a pcgs registry set that is not cac stickered would make sense in most circumstances. But by no means would you want to send cac stickered pcgs registry set coins to cac for slabbing. You will lose value
@thebigeng said:
I'm always humbled by the knowledge found on this board and the real intelligence of the coin market by many of the posters here. I'm not one of them! But I have some concerns and some questions about third party grading in general.
Is it possible that with now three "top tier" grading services ( assuming CAC will be one of course ) the coin market will become diluted and confusing to some? Meaning they wont know what to buy so they might not buy at all.
Will it improved grading at all services or will it just make it more difficult to price coins and sell them.? Will there by three columns on the graysheet?
How will we know we are getting a good deal with so many choices....
Will CAC do details, genuine, star, and plus slabs?
I have always liked it when 4 PCGS graders and then 4 CAC graders look at my coin that I bought raw (and submitted) and I get a good grade and then a sticker! I feel like I picked a good one that four pros agree with me.
Will PCGS sticker CAC Coins?
Curious what you think the future holds.. Thanks
Myself, I didn't know CAC was going off to compete with PCGS, NGC, and others. My only question is what will this do to NGC and PCGS slabs that have the green label? Will they go down in value? I paid a premium for these coins and since I'm retired I squeeze my pennies pretty tightly.
@PeterS , while time will tell, I suspect we'll all be OK. But with that said, it appears many people with NGC holders with CAC stickers will quite possibly do even better with "market value" if they cross those NGC holders over to the new CAC holders, as CAC grading says they will cross AUTOMATICALLY to the same grade (but color suffixes are NOT guaranteed to cross with that suffix). And if your current grade is a whole grade, it's possible it can even cross to a CAC holder with a "+" added to that whole grade number number if CACG deems the coin was an "A" coin in that whole grade number.
Some though in your situation may NOT want to cross if they currently have an NGC holder that is "valuable", like black or fatty, etc., or if your grade has a Star.
No harm in waiting to see how things develop.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I suspect at some point in the future PCGS & NGC coins with stickers will carry some premium as their numbers decrease due to crossovers to CAC holders. Perhaps beyond the time horizon of a lot of us here though. . . . . .
@ms71 said:
I suspect at some point in the future PCGS & NGC coins with stickers will carry some premium as their numbers decrease due to crossovers to CAC holders. Perhaps beyond the time horizon of a lot of us here though. . . . . .
Interesting - Perhaps Something like the rattler holder popularity or OGH coins.
Comments
Hear Hear
My 1807 Draped Bust Half appears to have (in my opinion) only Fine surface preservation with outstanding eye appeal that perhaps bumps it up to a low VF20. Industry standards are important. CACGrading will only tarnish the public understanding of what a Plus + grade represents. Imagine a sport where one team is officiated differently than the others. You wouldn't accept that. As has been shared by others in this thread, deviation from Industry standards is inconsistent and misleading. Full disclosure, I like the look of the new CACGrading holder much more than the obtrusive CAC sticker that all too often hides important information on the label. We all have pet peeves.
FYI, I bought this coin raw on eBay and did not send it in CAC, so speculation and comparison to the PCGS Photograde are all I have to go on. I only submit a few coins a year to PCGS, so I'm here to learn, and PCGS has earned my trust.
Matt Snebold
Strong eye-appeal probably wouldn’t cause a Fine coin to be graded VF. Eye-appeal is far more likely to bump the grade of an uncirculated or Proof coin, rather than a heavily circulated one.
A CACG “+” graded coin will represent essentially the same quality to them that “+” coins currently represent to PCGS and NGC - a high end example for the grade.
You sound upset that CACG will have its own grading standards, but PCGS and NGC have each graded to their own (different) standards for decades. Have you been equally bothered by that?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think a couple things will happen regarding cac adding value to the market. In my opinion, the way to play the cac slab game is to send them all the dreck (i.e. ugly toned unc grade Morgans, common grade franklins, coins that had previously been sent to cac which failed to sticker, etc) and hope they straight grade at any grade.
Think about how many dealers at shows either have the same stale slab inventory for months to years at a time. If those coins were green/gold cac stickered already, they would be easy sells. So you take that inventory, cac grade it, and it’s like getting a green sticker (i.e. straight grade) for everything.
I think pcgs & ngc cac stickered coins are going to increase significantly in value. Sending a pcgs registry set that is not cac stickered would make sense in most circumstances. But by no means would you want to send cac stickered pcgs registry set coins to cac for slabbing. You will lose value
Myself, I didn't know CAC was going off to compete with PCGS, NGC, and others. My only question is what will this do to NGC and PCGS slabs that have the green label? Will they go down in value? I paid a premium for these coins and since I'm retired I squeeze my pennies pretty tightly.
@PeterS , while time will tell, I suspect we'll all be OK. But with that said, it appears many people with NGC holders with CAC stickers will quite possibly do even better with "market value" if they cross those NGC holders over to the new CAC holders, as CAC grading says they will cross AUTOMATICALLY to the same grade (but color suffixes are NOT guaranteed to cross with that suffix). And if your current grade is a whole grade, it's possible it can even cross to a CAC holder with a "+" added to that whole grade number number if CACG deems the coin was an "A" coin in that whole grade number.
Some though in your situation may NOT want to cross if they currently have an NGC holder that is "valuable", like black or fatty, etc., or if your grade has a Star.
No harm in waiting to see how things develop.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I think crossing NGC slabbed coins with a CAC sticker will be a no brainer home run.
Non-stickered NGC slabs- why not give it a go. I have some early proof coins (1818-1825) in NGC slabs I am eager to try!
I suspect at some point in the future PCGS & NGC coins with stickers will carry some premium as their numbers decrease due to crossovers to CAC holders. Perhaps beyond the time horizon of a lot of us here though. . . . . .
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
I see the CAC CPG being the same valuation for stickered PCGS & NGC and the CACG coins.
Interesting - Perhaps Something like the rattler holder popularity or OGH coins.